Vista to XP conversion question

[C5 Golfer]

Any of you fine smart computer geeks know if I can just take my Dell M90 laptop with Vista -- Which sucks BTW - and just insert my XP Disc and load XP and change it to XP Pro? OR do I need to format the disc and start fresh?

[bobdea]

would be easier to format it, I'm sure there are ways to downgrade but like a upgrade it's always better to start fresh if possible.

Why don't you like vista?

for whatever reason performance on some laptops in vista is much better than in XP (I'm guessing 64 bit support is the reason) as long as you have lots of RAM

I'd also suggest on being ready to dump XP soon because mainstream support won't last forever and windows 7 is on the horizon. Maybe M$ will do a OS right this time, the last time they did was win 2000

[skatha]

I had to go back to XP pro for my new job. Lenovo sent a Vista remove/XP install set of discs with instructions on how to back up Vista. My laptop has had problems ever since I installed XP pro. I can't wait to reinmstall Vista pro in 1 month

[C5 Golfer]

would be easier to format it, I'm sure there are ways to downgrade but like a upgrade it's always better to start fresh if possible.

Why don't you like vista?

Most of my complaints comes from Solidworks working in Vista -- And also what M$ did with their custom mouse programming

My Solidworks works great in XP - no odd video behavior like in Vista - ( Yes I have Solidworks approved and tested Dell workstations – both running High end nVidia Open GL graphic cards which are also Solidworks approved with the approved drivers ) and while not related - my MS wireless mouse in XP Pro I can custom program the wheel button with "ESC" which is a nice function in SW. In Vista MS or M$ as you aptly call it – M$ took the ESC programming away in the Intellipoint – since you can not load an older version of Intellipoint drivers that has the “ESC “ – vista rejects the disc. A$$ holes –

I tried Logitechs mouse which allows use of “esc” programming but it does not work very well with Vista – it has connect and disconnect issues on a daily basis.

Additionally I cannot use several Thumb drives or a WD Passport drive in my Vista machine – it cannot find a driver – while my XP Pro Machine takes every one of them.

And Yes, I have the latest updates from M$ Vista.:smashfrea

[BobD]

can't get my ww2 MS flight sim to work with any joysticks. Really miss flying spits.

BobD

[KingCrimson]

I'll agree with Bobdea here, reformatting is the way to go.

Or, you could do it the super cool way, which is partition your drive, make a Vista partition and an XP partition. That way, when you want to be appalled by your computer, you can boot into Vista and do what you need to do, and then hop into XP and at least have a manageable OS.

Bob- back to computer talk for us, are you on 8.04 with the 'Buntu?

[pebu]

Most of my complaints comes from Solidworks working in Vista -- And also what M$ did with their custom mouse programming

My Solidworks works great in XP - no odd video behavior like in Vista - ( Yes I have Solidworks approved and tested Dell workstations – both running High end nVidia Open GL graphic cards which are also Solidworks approved with the approved drivers ) and while not related - my MS wireless mouse in XP Pro I can custom program the wheel button with "ESC" which is a nice function in SW. In Vista MS or M$ as you aptly call it – M$ took the ESC programming away in the Intellipoint – since you can not load an older version of Intellipoint drivers that has the “ESC “ – vista rejects the disc. A$$ holes –

I tried Logitechs mouse which allows use of “esc” programming but it does not work very well with Vista – it has connect and disconnect issues on a daily basis.

Additionally I cannot use several Thumb drives or a WD Passport drive in my Vista machine – it cannot find a driver – while my XP Pro Machine takes every one of them.

And Yes, I have the latest updates from M$ Vista.:smashfrea

I was just breezing through this thread until I saw the word(s) solidworks. We use solidworks 2008 on xp machines at work and I have a vista machine at home with the same solidworks on it. I haven't had time to play with it at home. We just got new quad core computers with 4 gigs of ram. We got the 4 gigs of ram because the quads could run x64, unfortunately, stupid dell packaged 32bit windows with the computers. What a bunch of crap.

edit: I just realized I didn't really contribute _anything_ to the thread right there. Oh well.

[Gecko]

I love my Mac Book, I'll be installing VMware Fusion so I can run the windows software I need. Vista was the last straw that finally made me switch. I am even buying myself a legal version of Photoshop

sorry probably not contributing except to hate on M$

[bobdea]

I see all these hardware issues with vista but I had none, on this macbook or a couple other boxes I've played with..

Good luck with it whatever you do, it sucks though how much software breaks with every MS OS and the vendors of the broken apps slack on fixing the issues.

If I were in your shoes I'd back up everything and go the format, and install vista and XP. Partition magic was my favorite disk partitioner back in the day and I assume it's still a great product so give that a try or find some freeware that will do the job. BTW on any linux install disk there's a partitioner and linux is free, just download it and burn the disc

Not sure why but I've run into less of that with mac OS but I assume it has much to do with when apple releases a OS it's adopted right away. in the MS world it's not like that.

Ubuntu 8, it's installed but I'm having bootloader issues, gotta figure it out when I feel like dedicating a hour or so to troubleshooting.

[KingCrimson]

I love my Mac Book, I'll be installing VMware Fusion so I can run the windows software I need. Vista was the last straw that finally made me switch. I am even buying myself a legal version of Photoshop

sorry probably not contributing except to hate on M$

Please please please don't buy software!

Support free software!

"But mommm I don't want the free software"

"Just install it, it's all the same!"

http://www.gimpshop.com/index.shtml

They even make it for your Mac

[Gecko]

not even close to the same...I have been using Photoshop since version 2. I have used nearly every pay and free image editing program out there and I always come back to Photoshop. (I have used Aperature and while I like it a lot I do more than just edit images but it is very nice) Since I don't care for the others the choice is use pirate software or pay for it, Adobe has a good record going after little people who sell images after using pirate software so while I still qualify as an educator I'll take the discount

[KingCrimson]

You really don't like GIMP?

Part of the problem with GIMP is it used to be impossible to find and read the manual online, that's different now, but nobody bothers.

Mind if I ask where you think it's lacking?

[Gecko]

You really don't like GIMP?

Part of the problem with GIMP is it used to be impossible to find and read the manual online, that's different now, but nobody bothers.

Mind if I ask where you think it's lacking?

I had this long answer but I'm in the middle of some installs so of course I killed it. In this day and age you shouldn't need a manual for any software if you do the software designer isn't doing his/her job properly....for me Photoshop is intuitive YMMV...Gimp, Corel and a host of other image editing software are great for all the people who don't get paid to deal with imagery....Photoshop is the industry standard for graphics professionals...not trying to be snobby just stating a fact. If I were traveling as much now as I did 6-8 years ago I would probably use Aperture because it's faster and non destructive but I'm not so Photoshop it is. BTW the US Navy put Gimp on a lot of its networked reconnaissance workstations because it's simple cheap and if they need anything real done with the imagery there are always people like me around with photoshop to do real editing (I am paraphrasing an install manual for a new periscope system). BTW I teach Periscope Photography and beginners photoshop to Navy Submarine personnel.

[C5 Golfer]

The conversion went very well - thanks to Dell Driver downloads - formated the HD and loaded XP Pro fresh... I now like my laptop again. Vista is a Peice of crap - Bye bye Vista - Hope i never see ya again

[KingCrimson]

Sad news, the days are numbered for XP.

Happy news, Vista will become obsolescent soon enough!

Good to hear it all worked out, Dell and Compaq/HP are always great for drivers.

[bobdea]

Sad news, the days are numbered for XP.

Happy news, Vista will become obsolescent soon enough!

Good to hear it all worked out, Dell and Compaq/HP are always great for drivers.

in the case of dell once you have the drivers installed then you realize your hardware is broken

[Petrol]

Why don't you like vista?

:lol: oh, that's rich :lol:

[KingCrimson]

in the case of dell once you have the drivers installed then you realize your hardware is broken

Oh it's not that bad.

I've dropped my laptop before.

Wireless still kinda works.

[KingCrimson]

in the case of dell once you have the drivers installed then you realize your hardware is broken

Oh it's not that bad.

I've dropped my laptop before.

Wireless still kinda works.

[C5 Golfer]

Sad news, the days are numbered for XP.

Happy news, Vista will become obsolescent soon enough!

Good to hear it all worked out, Dell and Compaq/HP are always great for drivers.

Sad day for XP -- today is the last day most Computer sellers can load XP per $MS agreement. Vista only =---

Now would it not be nice if the fn world would say " No - Then I do not want the computer and cancel the order" --:AR15firin

XP to be supported till 2009 and then minor support to 2014

[Gecko]

wow...sucks to be bound to Windows....

Happy to be MAC:1luvu:

[bobdea]

wow...sucks to be bound to Windows....

Happy to be MAC:1luvu:

me too

here's a little bit of windows end user hell, as told by BILL GATES!!!

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/141821.asp

For the opening piece in our series on Gates leaving daily life at Microsoft, one goal was to give a clear picture of the Microsoft co-founder's role inside the company, as a gauge of the impact his departure will have. As part of that, I went back through the internal e-mails turned over in the antitrust suits against the company, looking for new insights into his personality.

Read on past the jump for one of the gems that turned up, showing Gates in the role of chief rabble-rouser. (Original document: PDF, 5 pages.) It shows that even the Microsoft co-founder -- who champions the "magic of software" -- isn't immune to the frustrations of everyday computer users. Keep in mind that this was more than five years ago, so it doesn't necessarily reflect the specific state of things now. At the bottom, see what Gates said when I asked him about the message last week.

---- Original Message ----

From: Bill Gates

Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:05 AM

To: Jim Allchin

Cc: Chris Jones (WINDOWS); Bharat Shah (NT); Joe Peterson; Will Poole; Brian Valentine; Anoop Gupta (RESEARCH)

Subject: Windows Usability Systematic degradation flame

I am quite disappointed at how Windows Usability has been going backwards and the program management groups don't drive usability issues.

Let me give you my experience from yesterday.

I decided to download (Moviemaker) and buy the Digital Plus pack ... so I went to Microsoft.com. They have a download place so I went there.

The first 5 times I used the site it timed out while trying to bring up the download page. Then after an 8 second delay I got it to come up.

This site is so slow it is unusable.

It wasn't in the top 5 so I expanded the other 45.

These 45 names are totally confusing. These names make stuff like: C:\Documents and Settings\billg\My Documents\My Pictures seem clear.

They are not filtered by the system ... and so many of the things are strange.

I tried scoping to Media stuff. Still no moviemaker. I typed in movie. Nothing. I typed in movie maker. Nothing.

So I gave up and sent mail to Amir saying - where is this Moviemaker download? Does it exist?

So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated.

They told me to go to the main page search button and type movie maker (not moviemaker!).

I tried that. The site was pathetically slow but after 6 seconds of waiting up it came.

I thought for sure now I would see a button to just go do the download.

In fact it is more like a puzzle that you get to solve. It told me to go to Windows Update and do a bunch of incantations.

This struck me as completely odd. Why should I have to go somewhere else and do a scan to download moviemaker?

So I went to Windows update. Windows Update decides I need to download a bunch of controls. (Not) just once but multiple times where I get to see weird dialog boxes.

Doesn't Windows update know some key to talk to Windows?

Then I did the scan. This took quite some time and I was told it was critical for me to download 17megs of stuff.

This is after I was told we were doing delta patches to things but instead just to get 6 things that are labeled in the SCARIEST possible way I had to download 17meg.

So I did the download. That part was fast. Then it wanted to do an install. This took 6 minutes and the machine was so slow I couldn't use it for anything else during this time.

What the heck is going on during those 6 minutes? That is crazy. This is after the download was finished.

Then it told me to reboot my machine. Why should I do that? I reboot every night -- why should I reboot at that time?

So I did the reboot because it INSISTED on it. Of course that meant completely getting rid of all my Outlook state.

So I got back up and running and went to Windows Update again. I forgot why I was in Windows Update at all since all I wanted was to get Moviemaker.

So I went back to Microsoft.com and looked at the instructions. I have to click on a folder called WindowsXP. Why should I do that? Windows Update knows I am on Windows XP.

What does it mean to have to click on that folder? So I get a bunch of confusing stuff but sure enough one of them is Moviemaker.

So I do the download. The download is fast but the Install takes many minutes. Amazing how slow this thing is.

At some point I get told I need to go get Windows Media Series 9 to download.

So I decide I will go do that. This time I get dialogs saying things like "Open" or "Save". No guidance in the instructions which to do. I have no clue which to do.

The download is fast and the install takes 7 minutes for this thing.

So now I think I am going to have Moviemaker. I go to my add/remove programs place to make sure it is there.

It is not there.

What is there? The following garbage is there. Microsoft Autoupdate Exclusive test package, Microsoft Autoupdate Reboot test package, Microsoft Autoupdate testpackage1. Microsoft AUtoupdate testpackage2, Microsoft Autoupdate Test package3.

Someone decided to trash the one part of Windows that was usable? The file system is no longer usable. The registry is not usable. This program listing was one sane place but now it is all crapped up.

But that is just the start of the crap. Later I have listed things like Windows XP Hotfix see Q329048 for more information. What is Q329048? Why are these series of patches listed here? Some of the patches just things like Q810655 instead of saying see Q329048 for more information.

What an absolute mess.

Moviemaker is just not there at all.

So I give up on Moviemaker and decide to download the Digital Plus Package.

I get told I need to go enter a bunch of information about myself.

I enter it all in and because it decides I have mistyped something I have to try again. Of course it has cleared out most of what I typed.

I try (typing) the right stuff in 5 times and it just keeps clearing things out for me to type them in again.

So after more than an hour of craziness and making my programs list garbage and being scared and seeing that Microsoft.com is a terrible website I haven't run Moviemaker and I haven't got the plus package.

The lack of attention to usability represented by these experiences blows my mind. I thought we had reached a low with Windows Network places or the messages I get when I try to use 802.11. (don't you just love that root certificate message?)

When I really get to use the stuff I am sure I will have more feedback.

[KingCrimson]

Sad day for XP -- today is the last day most Computer sellers can load XP per $MS agreement. Vista only =---

Now would it not be nice if the fn world would say " No - Then I do not want the computer and cancel the order" --:AR15firin

XP to be supported till 2009 and then minor support to 2014

I suppose I should update my XP box to SP2 now...

Bob- As beautiful as it is to see the man himself complain about his OS, he's got some funky stuff in there that raises a question.

Why would Gates complain about having to reboot? Linux makes you do it, Mac, although not frequently will throw that up as well.

[C5 Golfer]

I suppose I should update my XP box to SP2 now...

.

Don't you mean SP3??

[bobdea]

I suppose I should update my XP box to SP2 now...

Bob- As beautiful as it is to see the man himself complain about his OS, he's got some funky stuff in there that raises a question.

Why would Gates complain about having to reboot? Linux makes you do it, Mac, although not frequently will throw that up as well.

right, I see what Bill is saying though. reboots should be at the minimum, in particular there should be focus on making apps that install less junk in various places and that they don't install little tidbits into the OS in effect basically tweaking it. Apple has done alright with that but could do better. Most stuff on mac OS just requires you to log out and back in to work even if it tells you to restart which is better to a point.