kinda OT: pumping a skateboard

[joecarve]

I'm trying to get this pumping thing dialed...I'm at the point where I'm travelling farther on flats with (attempted) pumping after several really hard kicks, but I can't quite propel it enough to maintain speed. After reading Dan Gesmer's article, it sounds an awful lot like crossunder turns on snow, but at a faster rate. However, since I tend to ride angles on a skateboard very similar to that on snow decks (~60 F and R), I'm wondering if that's holding me back a bit. BTW, I'm riding a FibreFlex Pintail 38, Randal 150s with yellow Stims, and 75a Avalons. Also, I'm riding with my front toes right at the back bolts of the front truck, rear heel forward of the front bolts on the rear truck.

Can you still pump efficiently on this setup with high angles?

joe...

PS. Yeah, I know, search on NCDSA, but I thought it would be good to have a discussion of skate technique here, geared toward the alpine crowd.

[Baka Dasai]

I can't help you much, except to say that I'm at a similar point in trying to master pumping a skateboard. Pumping makes me go considerably further and faster, but unless I've got a slight tailwind, or a slight downhill, there's no way I can maintain my speed.

Maybe it's just the rough old roads around here...

My pumping is most effective when it is super-quick little turns, with lots of exaggerated upper-body motion. But I find doing it this way to be completely exhausting - it feels like the most inefficient method possible for converting body movements into forward motion.

My stance angles are much straighter than when snowboarding - about 45f, 20r. If I try and go steeper I can't seem to get enough leverage. But I've seen videos of good slalomers, and some of them seem to have very high stance angles.

On a deck (Loaded Fish) with a 25" wheelbase...

[Guest Pre School Rider]

Yeah,it's very doable,but the rythym is a bit different,definately quicker on most 'longboards' under 40",moreso on shorter,or flexier boards.The G+S Pintail is a nice cruiser,even able to do O.K. at G.S. or Longboard Slalom.The question is,'does your deck Flex correctly?'. I've found that stiffer boards tend to have a set speed,usually faster,where they 'come alive',while flexier decks will pump along at lower speeds,or over flatter areas. Your choice of wheels + trucks should do well.The 3DM wheels are SO sticky and Fast! As for the foot angles,I find that with Not having bindings,my feet move about some.I'll often find that my rear foot has come across the deck more to get better steering leverage,and maybe better hip gyration,too. A neat trick J.G. does for novice Slalomers is to chalk an outline of where the feet should be to give a quick visual reference when Racing.I personally don't like chalk marks on my board,but,hey,it works. Another little item I found that Really stepped up my pumping on Flats was taking a Toe-Lifter from a Burton Binding(either the clip-to-the-base,or the StickyBack foam Horseshoes)and T-nutting that onto my board just in front of where my front foot rests.This toe-block then gives me something reasonably soft to Push against in driving, gyrating,pumps.It also is a neat way to sub-consciously remind your foot of where it's supposed to be.:oIf you don't like the idea of poking new holes into your board,look over on www.longskate.com in the 'griptape' section for the FoamTop rolls.This stuff is awesome for making the toe-block I mentrioned happen without any need to poke new holes on the deck.It cuts with scissors,so just create some curved shapes,like 7" x 2-1/2" with an 8" curvature.You can stick this stuff on top of itself,and easily shape the contours,so getting a really snug,smooth fit to your shoe is very possible.The FoamTop rolls come in either Black and Camo,are ribbed,about 3/8" thick,self-adhesive,BUT comes in Huge rolls of 12" X 48"! This is enough that one roll will make you Many,Many stomp-pads for your snowboards,very much like the old Astro-deck stuff from the early 90's.

[Tim Kienitz]

Joe carve,

Longer boards like your 38" are harder to pump than short boards with smaller turn radiuses. Pumping on longer boards will make your pump very strong and when you go to a smaller board such as 31' and smaller, pumping will be a breeze ( you can even pump uphill ). While carving I also ride 60 degrees front and back but when skating, I have found that I have more leverage when I angle my rear foot a little less. Unlike carving, you should use your arms a lot.

Have fun,

Tim

[Neil Gendzwill]

38" is doable, but that's a long-ass deck to learn on. Just remember that the main action is to pressure the first half of the turn, then suck the second half back under your body in time to pressure the start of the next turn. It's like ice skating or rollerblading where the blade is at an angle to the overall direction of movement and the pressure causes it to squirt forward. With a skateboard though, you can't pick the board up off the ground once the "squirt" is done, you have to efficiently move it to the next turn with unweighting. And yeah, it's a kind of cross-through motion.

[joecarve]

Sounds like I should at least use the inside mounting holes on my 38 to shorten the wheelbase a bit. This is a pretty flexy deck for me (I'm 165lb). I'll probably buy a slalom deck at some point, but I wanted to get the technique figured out so I can make a better choice on stiffness...not just the usual buy-a-Black-Hill approach...

Great tip on the foam tape - my front foot tends to creep forward, so a toestop would be handy.

I think I'm not unweighting enough and/or starting it late in the transition. With the arm swinging, should this be primarily along the axis of the deck, or more along an axis perpendicular to the deck (that is, aligned with your body)? Seems like the video clips of slalom I've seen are more along the deck, while Gesmer article describes a motion more vertically aligned.

joe...

[John Gilmour]

To make that set up pump easily.

Loosen the trucks

- bounce your weight into the board to pump

- use flatter angles.

________

FORD FREDA SPECIFICATIONS

[outsider]

pumping on my 47" sector nine pintail is out of the question on the flats, but when i get some speed that thing is powerful. my suggestion is go for the back leg carve where you push significantly more with the back leg (counter intuitive to a good heelside snowboard carve, but great for surfing). I am starting to get the itch for carving, and i need a tighter board for the flats around me, as the hills that used to be steep seem like greens to me now.

[Guest Pre School Rider]

I used to pump my slalom boards without much arm movement,using just the knees/hips. Basically,I was over-trained by AASI,too damn quiet in the upper body.I could work it,but would lose power on flatter sections.Watching Chris Chaput work thru some Uphill pumping (on a shortened,stiff,all wood DH board and Seismic trucks),and seeing him really drive from the shoulders Across the board was an eye-opener.Now I blend the 'cross-swing' with a bit of forward motion( golf swing? :o ). It works pretty well,at least when my back isn't too tweaked. What JG just said about having your trucks loosened a bit,and Not having too much angle is really sound advice.You want to be able to tilt the board,get some steering involved,to get some thrust.As you steer,try driving the knees forward too.The actual "pump flex" will come as a result of board steering thru;It Has to go faster than you as it turns,so it's always excellerating Thru Turns,and you catch up Between turns.That means you'll be making a quick extension just after the turn initiates,and a quick retraction(unweighting) when you change 'edges'.In longer turns,you can play with the timing a bit more,stretching out the 'push' when going for a surfier turn style.For Slalom,that pump is almost a 'jab' in quickness,well,maybe not that intense...There's also the sense that I'm working the board's middle,kinda using the front heel/rear toe to put pressure into the board. Whew,dang,this REALLY tough to explain in words only...I hope it helps some,without being confusing.

[lonerider]

So is slalom skateboard helpful for alpine riding beyound slalom racing? It looks like a superset, or a side set of abilities. Like after learning how to pump, is that helpful for snowboarding?

I'm looking for something that is going to help me develop my skill set a little bit over the summer. Comparing that to a carveboard or windsurfing... I would prefer something htat I can do i na parking lot... that is to say something with minimal setup (cones, closed roads, etc) so I can do it easily and often.

Currently I'm rollerblading (roller hockey skates - is rollerblading slalom good?) and rock climbing... soon to playing recreational ice hockey again after a several month layover due to injury (D-DD level).

[Guest Pre School Rider]

On 9/20/2003 Pre-School Rider wrote in from 24.52.xxx.xxx:

In my neck of the woods,it's getting to where the leaves are startin' to turn,going from green to red/orange/yellow,and sometimes brown--Snow ain't far behind,folks! Now is the time to consider whatever crosstraining you have been doing(you have been,right?)as being pretty much wrapped up for the off months.Gotta start looking at the results.Are your knees ready?Can you articulate your shoulders seperate from your hips?Do you have better stamina than this time last year? Are you sure your feet are quick,light,ready to put the Power Down on your shiny new racer-board?Did you actually do anything beneficial to being a better rider this summer(no,Gardening Dosen't count!!)? If not,sorry,sucka... If you did,Awesome,come out early this season and RULE the groomers! What I did was work hard(yes,pushing a greens mower is a workout,trust me),skate a lot(this includes Walking Back UP the hill,Poser!),bounce on a trampoline a bit,and rode some bike as well.I still didn't get in the workouts I wanted,but had enough exercise nonetheless.In the "'tween times',where the snow hasn't yet fallen,but the Longboard Skating sucks,I'll be keeping up on my stretching routines,and even tossing in some karate exercises(gotta love Chucks and Staffs!) to keep limber enough. Whatever You may have done,I hope it increased your awareness of strength,balance,timing,stamina,and flexibility;preferably while you are in motion.Any crossover activity you use should also keep some of the "boardsport" muscle memory intact through the summer.If you relied on pushing the barbeque around from the patio to garage as your 'activity' for the summer,um,you missed out,bro... Take stock in what you did now,and if things aren't feeling too good come snowfall,plan the next 'off season' out better so that you stay on top of your gains. This season,I'm going to have some fun,and relax knowing I'm fit and ready.Just gotta get off the chairlift without loosing it in the first week...

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Pre School Rider

On 9/20/2003 Pre-School Rider wrote in from 24.52.xxx.xxx:

In my neck of the woods,it's getting to where the leaves are startin' to turn,going from green to red/orange/yellow,and sometimes brown--Snow ain't far behind,folks! Now is the time to consider whatever crosstraining you have been doing(you have been,right?)as being pretty much wrapped up for the off months.Gotta start looking at the results.Are your knees ready?Can you articulate your shoulders seperate from your hips?Do you have better stamina than this time last year? Are you sure your feet are quick,light,ready to put the Power Down on your shiny new racer-board?Did you actually do anything beneficial to being a better rider this summer(no,Gardening Dosen't count!!)? If not,sorry,sucka... If you did,Awesome,come out early this season and RULE the groomers! What I did was work hard(yes,pushing a greens mower is a workout,trust me),skate a lot(this includes Walking Back UP the hill,Poser!),bounce on a trampoline a bit,and rode some bike as well.I still didn't get in the workouts I wanted,but had enough exercise nonetheless.In the "'tween times',where the snow hasn't yet fallen,but the Longboard Skating sucks,I'll be keeping up on my stretching routines,and even tossing in some karate exercises(gotta love Chucks and Staffs!) to keep limber enough. Whatever You may have done,I hope it increased your awareness of strength,balance,timing,stamina,and flexibility;preferably while you are in motion.Any crossover activity you use should also keep some of the "boardsport" muscle memory intact through the summer.If you relied on pushing the barbeque around from the patio to garage as your 'activity' for the summer,um,you missed out,bro... Take stock in what you did now,and if things aren't feeling too good come snowfall,plan the next 'off season' out better so that you stay on top of your gains. This season,I'm going to have some fun,and relax knowing I'm fit and ready.Just gotta get off the chairlift without loosing it in the first week...

So basically you are saying on the most basic level, any exercise that requires strength and balance and quick reflexes of the legs is good.

I'm more keen on the "boardsport" muscle memory thing... what are good examples... you seem to frown upon longboards... what about windsurfing? too many sailing and not enough carving? I like rollerblading and ice hockey, but I feel like they are not exactly "boardspot" muscles.

[Baka Dasai]

Arvin, I think you misread PSR - his reference to "longboarding sucks" was Iimited to cold autumn weather. I'm sure he's actually saying that you should ride a longboard as much as possible as it's the perfect crosstraining for carving.

And PSR, no disrespect, but your info-packed posts would be SO much easier to read if they were split into separate paragraphs.

Heh, I'm in summer mode - just rode my longboard to the pool (4 km away), swam some laps, and then skated back. Nasty headwind and slight uphill on the way there, but worked up some nice speed on the way back .:D

[Guest Pre School Rider]

Yeah,Baka,I do tend to get rolling in a certain direction,and forget not to use non-run-on sentences. My brain is usually going about 4 times faster than I can type! :o Having Lydexsia don't help,either! I'll take that advice to heart,again. Oy,when Will the boy Learn? Lonerider,I tossed that snippet to show that there are other activities that will keep your body moving in ways that will benefit your riding. I am all for 'Crosstraining' on a skateboard,longboard,wakeboard,surfboard,dirtboard or windsurfer. I have been advocating that exact concept for decades. It works,by whichever boardsport you pick. IMHO,Longboards and the newer 'crossover' snowboarding trainers (such as Tierney,Carveboard) are the best means of working on your carving technique in the off-season. Muscle memory is retained and strengthened. Unlike snow, the Tar dosen't change much. Consistency and repetition can be worked on. Movement patterns can also be explored with clearer results. If slalom cones are used (or even tennis balls cut in half) to regulate turn shape,more structure can be brought into the training. Any vacant lot with good tar is game. Of course,finding those rare hills with fresh tar is the best! Second best is a user friendly parking garage! Oh,and riding in the cold,autumn weather does suck. Longboarding dosen't!:D

[joecarve]

Ok, I'm gettin' there, even using the longer wheelbase settings on the 38 (I'm slightly stubborn). Backing out the kingpin a full turn made a big difference. I've got more drive on heelsides at the moment, I think...

Thanks!

joe...