KingCrimson Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Hello, Bomberonline! I have only been snowboarding a few times, and I want to switch to hardboots. I can carve, but boot flex and the board popping off edge has me frustrated. I don't care much for jumping, and the conditions at Mountain High are suited to Skis a hell of a lot better than to snowboards, so I figured hardbooting would make my experience a lot more enjoyable. What are your guy's opinions on if A. I should even start yet and B. What gear can I get a fairly tight budget? Thanks in advance, Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcarver Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 You haven't been riding much so it might be a somewhat difficult transition. If you have any skiing experience, I would think that would help. I would look for a board that has a decent amount of flex and is not too narrow in the waist so you don't have to start with too sharp of angles on your bindings. Your weight and foot size will be a big factor in what is right for you. I would get a flexier binding like the old burtons or something. Try to hook up with some local carvers to help get you set up. If you already have a decent softboot board, you could just get some hard boots and bindings to get started to kind of get the hang of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted March 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 No, I don't have much experience on the snow in any sense, but my father is an extremely adept skier, and with him teaching me how to snowboard, I've adopted a more ski-like technique, which is why I wanted to switch to an alpine board, as I find it so much more enjoyable than skidding, I weigh about 180-185 pounds and wear size 12 shoes, and I'm 6 foot 1 inch or so. I've found a Kemper Freestyle that I like, it's got a decent sidecut, so it's not like unshaped skis, but it's got softboot bindings, and it's only a 153. Is a Kemper just too much of an oldschool board to be used easily? I'm 14, so hopefully I'm still growing, will a shorter board such as that quickly become far too small? One more question- What is the difference between ski boots and hardboots? Is it simply the mounting mechanisms on the bottoms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 An alpine board is a good choice if you're more interested in the carve and less in the park, but it is a tool that takes some getting used to. The two best things you can do for yourself : 1) find someone who will let you demo a suitable board (suitable being the operative word - alpine boards can be very specific in their intended audience) and 2) get some tips from someone who knows what he's doing. Speaking from experience :o there is a long hard way and an easy short way to learn to ride alpine, and taking the above two hints will take you the easy short way ... but I started on an alpine board after three days of learning, and if I can do it, anyone can! The Kemper is not what you want in a board. As you're getting late in the season you may have to be a little patient, but you'll get lots of good advice here, and the more reading you do, the more you'll get a feel for what you might want to ride. In the meantime, spend some time at The Carvers Almanac - everything you could possible want to know about carving. I Googled Mountain King and see it's in CA - there's a crew from CA, and hopefully someone will chime in here ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEJ Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Check out the carve camp posted here for Mammoth in May. I took a clinic from Sean at SES. He's a great instructor. Oh, yea, lose the Kemper. You need more board. That thing's probably only got a little over a meter of running length. At your size I wouldn't go any shorter than mid 160s to start, and once you get the hang of it you will want longer. As far as boots go, Yes, they do mount different AND they have a different flex pattern. A few people ride in ski boots, but from what I've heard most people that try the sport using ski boots usually give up. Good Luck, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 There's a small cadre of carvers that regularly go to Bear Mountain and Snow Summit. When the opportunity permits, I occasionally go up to Mt High after work during the week. I have an F2 Roadster 166 and Freecarve bindings you are more than welcome to try. I can't help on the size 12s, though. Drop me an email, b.lamar at ca.rr.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted March 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thanks for your posts guys! Hey, it's great to hear that you can actually start carving fairly quickly, hopefully I'm able to pick it up as well. I shot Thumper an email, and hopefully we can work something out, so we can cut to the chase and definitely claim that I love carving. Thanks again, I'm so glad I found this community! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronG Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 King, welcome to the carving world!! I am also in SoCal, where abouts are you?? I might be of assistance to you on a board. I do have a Burton Coil 172cm that is fairly soft in flex and very easy to learn on. I also have a set of bindings that I can throw on there to use. As for boots, I can't help you there but there is a place in Big Bear called Goldsmith's Boardhouse(Danielle or Linda) and they have or had some size 29 Deeluxe LeMans and Suzuka boots for sale the last time I was in there. (Tell them that Aaron the paper shredder sent you there) There is another shop in Wrightwood called Mtn High Sports, the owner there (Tim) is also a carver and they had some leftover stock at one time, give em a jingle to confirm, make sure you speak with Tim as the other employees might not have much info. If you can't find hardboots you can use ski boots, don't use a full race boot, too stiff!! You want something that is soft in forward flex but stiff enough in lateral flex. A good intermediate ski boot would work for starting out, I did it for many years before I purchased dedicated hardboots for carving. I don't ride at Mtn High too much but prefer to go to Summit, runs seem a bit better suited for carving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Glynn Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I started in ski boots went to snowboard hardboots and then right back to ski boots. I like them better, however thats just my experience. I have also taught several people to carve in ski boots and most of them went to snowboard hardboots but some stayed with ski boots. Not a one of them gave up the sport though. I won't advise you to go one way or the other but I will say this; If you have trouble finding snowboard hardboots or you can't afford them try the ski boots. A used pair of ski boots are easy to come by and usually cheap also. As far as a board goes a slalom board in the 160 to 165 range will be a good place to start. A slalom board needs less real estate to turn so you will spend less time in the fall line and that will be a good thing for a while. And a flexier set of bindings, like Burton race plates or f2s, will be helpful in the beginning if you start in ski boots. Good luck and welcome to the world of carving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted March 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I'm in San Diego, but my dad loves the drive to Mountain High, and so do I, so we are more than happy taking the 3-4 hour drive up there. From both of you, it's great to hear that you can use Ski boots, I'm very happy about that, thanks for the advice! You wouldn't happen to have the number for the store in Wrightwood, would you? That would be great. Thanks again guys! I love this community, you sure know how to help a newbie :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 No, I don't have much experience on the snow in any sense, but my father is an extremely adept skier, and with him teaching me how to snowboard, I've adopted a more ski-like technique, which is why I wanted to switch to an alpine board, as I find it so much more enjoyable than skidding,I weigh about 180-185 pounds and wear size 12 shoes, and I'm 6 foot 1 inch or so. I've found a Kemper Freestyle that I like, it's got a decent sidecut, so it's not like unshaped skis, but it's got softboot bindings, and it's only a 153. Is a Kemper just too much of an oldschool board to be used easily? I'm 14, so hopefully I'm still growing, will a shorter board such as that quickly become far too small? One more question- What is the difference between ski boots and hardboots? Is it simply the mounting mechanisms on the bottoms? Yes,that Kemper is just waaaay too much of an oldschool board. Dano might still have a Burton Coil to sell ya for cheap. You can find a decent starter setup for really short money. Welcome to BOL , welcome to carving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted March 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Haha thanks, I'm definitely done with the notion of being an iconoclast to carving on the Kemper. I'm still very happy to know that more flexible ski boots can be used, being that I just could not find a size 30 hardboot, let alone any hardboot for a decent price. Mind showing me a link to the Burton Coil you're talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Haha thanks, I'm definitely done with the notion of being an iconoclast to carving on the Kemper.I'm still very happy to know that more flexible ski boots can be used, being that I just could not find a size 30 hardboot, let alone any hardboot for a decent price. Mind showing me a link to the Burton Coil you're talking about? I'll ask Dano. He had a Coil he got for the burton raceplates on it and it's really more of a newbie board. Look into Nordica SBH boots. Great boots to learn in.it's all about the lateral flex in a hard snowboard boot. ski boots flex forward and alpine boots flex sideways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronG Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Click on members list in the banner and search for "Derf" he has all the Burton Brochures listed on his site. The board is a 2000 vintage but it is in good shape though. Fresh wax and a edge sharpen too. I keep this board around for situations like yours. I have a pair of Burton Race Plates that I can mount on it also. Flexy board with flexy bindings, should work okay for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted March 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Sounds great, good to know that everyone is so willing to share the art of carving! Just a question, is the board flexy as in lacking torsional stiffness, or just along the longer axis of the board? It seems to be a lack of torsional stiffness on the Rossi's that I've rented that bug me. And thanks for the advice on the Nordicas, but I can't really find any. Oh well, I'll have to keep my eyes peeled. Does anyone have a definitive answer for ski boots? Will they click right into the bindings, or is there something funky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 ski boots have a DIN standard for bindings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_binding that's your homework for tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronG Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Just a question, is the board flexy as in lacking torsional stiffness, or just along the longer axis of the board? The board is indeed a carving board, stiff in torsional flex but soft in longitudinal flex. I believe the sidecut radius is around 10 meters, check Derf's site, it gives you all the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted March 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Excellent. Cures my complaints for the rossi. It was a 155 I was riding, and I could take the tail and nose in my right and left hands and turn the nose in and the tail out. Not exactly ideal for carving it seems Willy- Oh boy Wikipedia reading homework! That's not even sarcasm, even though I completely wrote it to appear to be. I spend waaaay to much time on Wikipedia, but thanks for the link, now I'll read it, realize I didn't actually read it because I was so excited, and then read it again. Okay, so I understand the DIN bit, as my father had demonstrated just how loose he had the bindings set..something about being old..yeah whatever :) But that doesn't exactly answer my question. I've never seen an Alpine snowboard binding up close. Do they operate the same, and are simply sensitive to torque acting on top of the binding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronG Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Ted, one more thing, if you haven't been to this site, go now!!! www.carversalmanac.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I'll ask Dano. He had a Coil he got for the burton raceplates on it and it's really more of a newbie board. Look into Nordica SBH boots. Great boots to learn in.it's all about the lateral flex in a hard snowboard boot. ski boots flex forward and alpine boots flex sideways That's funny, I have a pair of barely ridden Nordica SBHs that are too big for me, but they are 28.5s and may be a little tight. KingCrimson, measure your foot using this technique: http://www.bomberonline.com/store/boots/Sizing_boots.pdf and see what you come up with. All the bindings I've used (Bomber TD1 & TD2, Catek, Burton/Ibex and Phiokka) have worked fine with the SBHs which have a ski boot style DIN sole. The only issue I've seen with ski boots or the SBHs is that F2 toe bails don't fit right and you have to do some creative dremeling. F2 bindings are great -just not with ski-style boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted March 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 That's funny, I have a pair of barely ridden Nordica SBHs that are too big for me, but they are 28.5s and may be a little tight. KingCrimson, measure your foot using this technique:http://www.bomberonline.com/store/boots/Sizing_boots.pdf and see what you come up with. All the bindings I've used (Bomber TD1 & TD2, Catek, Burton/Ibex and Phiokka) have worked fine with the SBHs which have a ski boot style DIN sole. The only issue I've seen with ski boots or the SBHs is that F2 toe bails don't fit right and you have to do some creative dremeling. F2 bindings are great -just not with ski-style boots. Like I said, I'll never find a pair of these. :D 27, rounded up; praise the Lord! I'll grow into them, think they will work for now? Also, what is the situation with the liner? Think I can be lazy and not poop with it, or is it just a hit or miss if you have the exact same shaped foot as me? Please email me at painterdog (at) hotmail.com! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tool Can Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Welcome. Good to have you,and your interest Big Young Blood Will check with my crew on Boots for you. SB specific Hard Boots have a plastic mechanism in the Pivot that is for Canting.If by chance you Pile drive or something the plastic strips. That may not be by design specificly.But it does save the anckles+ in an extreme.Ski Boots are a tricky bizzness that is best avioded. K? Hit the Almanac as Old Volvo suggested and Check your Boot size for us via Bomber Store instructions and get back with that. Follow up with Allee's suggestions too. TC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted March 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Welcome. Good to have you,and your interest Big Young BloodWill check with my crew on Boots for you. SB specific Hard Boots have a plastic mechanism in the Pivot that is for Canting.If by chance you Pile drive or something the plastic strips. That may not be by design specificly.But it does save the anckles+ in an extreme.Ski Boots are a tricky bizzness that is best avioded. K? Hit the Almanac as Old Volvo suggested and Check your Boot size for us via Bomber Store instructions and get back with that. Follow up with Allee's suggestions too. TC Hey, thanks for your post! I'm size 27, but I would like to get them on the big side, being that I'd like to keep the gear longer while it still fits. I've been reading up on the Almanac for the past..2 hours or so. Really liking it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Boots are something that you really don't want to oversize. If you want the most for your money, get something with a heat moldable lining. That way the lining can grow with your foot, and if you need to replace the shell, you could probably get another year or two out of the liners you already own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Quick link for the Coil: http://derf.dyndns.org/~derf/gallery/snowboard_Burton_2000/Coil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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