rschneid Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Hi all, I am past the newbie stage and working to correct a problem with my heelside. The problem: on my heelside, I am still facing toeside. I can carve pretty well on both sides. On my toe side I frequently end up naturally right on the deck, but on heel side, while I can carve I am still facing the 'wrong' way. I can carve this way at speed on moderately steep slopes (Snowmass Campground, Whitetail Limelight) I was at Aspen SES and watched a lot of riders with their face/body/hands moving between the heel and toe sides. I did get some advice from Jorg(sp?) [ "rotate around at the waste"] but I am having some trouble making that work. Possibly my lower back is just to stiff and or its more rotation than I can make. I am riding 55/50. Is upping the angles a reasonable way to try to correct this? Up to maybe 75/70? I was messing around with this on the carpet and it seems like it would naturally place me in a much more neutral position from which a heel side, lean towards the slope would be more natural. Thoughts opinions suggestions welcome. Rich S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubz Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Rich, Couple things that have helped me higher angles have allowed my hips to square up (70/67) pretend you are wyatt earp and gunsling stance on heelside, focu on keeping that rear hand down and driven towards your front boot. Too man y times I find my rear hand out and up and it needs to be in and forward. It helps bring those hips around. bend your knees, and I often reach and grab my front boot toe, it seems to drive my edge in much better. how is your heelside confidence level, I sometimes see folks remain in a freestyle stance becasue it is odd for them to rotate and they are use to sideslipping, which your hips remain perpendicular tot he board. In alpine the hips should be paralell, even when you are sideslipping on an alpine. PS my spelling and typing sux. if you can get up to blue moutain PA, JBS and I can help you out. good luck to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rschneid Posted March 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Ok I will up the angles. I like the Wyatt Earp concept. Thanks for the offer up at Blue Mtn. If I can find the time to get up there I will definitely take you up on the offer. Thanks. Rich S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Anything over 65 degrees is pretty extreme and is not a necessity for good heelsides. Put your toes and heels as close to the edge without hanging over and adjust from there. If that still has you under 60, try 60/60. For a practice drill, try carving heelside with your rear hand touching your front foot boot cuff. As speed increases, see if you can touch your rear hand to your front toe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 For most people angles such as 55/50 are just fine. I'd want to see some video before making any recommendations, it is difficult to make a good situation without seeing the problem with one's own two eyes. FWIW I ride at angles in the low 50's and my heelside, while not perfect by any means, is quite functional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arc2Arc Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I like the tips given here. I like to quiet down my upper body rotation, unless you are trying to euro carve. I like to try and think of rotation comming from my hips and knees. On heel side i think about flattening my sholders so that they are paralell to the slope I am on. You can achieve this through driving your outside hand or back hand into your back knee/ boot top,/toe as already suggested. Another way I like to think of it, but a little tough to picture is to think about closing the back of your front knee up hill, to the slope, or to the inside of the turn. 1. As you are riding a flat board in the fall line start to go heel side by thinking about the back side of your front knee getting closer and closer to the snow as the heel side turn progresses untill the board is all the way accross the fall line. 2. do the same thing but this time keep your shoulders level or paralell to the slope you are on by driving your hand as suggested earlier. i like to keep my sholders in a natural position, rotated just slightly ahead of my hips looking in the direction i am going. upper body positon varries depending on slope and turn shape. theres a lot more to it but it is a good place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Rich, as you know I also struggle with my heelside carves. I found that steeper stance angles help a little but don't make that much of a difference. I just set angles according to my board width. On an 18cm wide board I have 63/60. On the 21.4cm board I have 54/51. I seem to be most comfortable with 57/54, which I get on a 19.5 - 20cm board. One setup thing that helped my heelsides a little was to add some rear heel lift and cant, especially on the wider board with the shallower angles. With the rear binding flat, my heelsides left a wavy track in the snow -- I must have been twisting the board somehow. On my last day at SES I asked Shawn if he had any tips for my sucky heelsides. He said to get lower and I asked if he meant bending my knees more, and he said to actually bend forward at the ankles more. It seemed counterintuitive to bend forward at the ankles to initiate a heelside since that would be putting more pressure on the toes. I had time for one more run and decided to try it, and it actually seemed to work. You drive forward by bending at the ankles, which pressures the nose of the board, then rotate the knees toward the heelside. It's sort of a corkscrew motion, and it feels really smooth. I haven't ridden since, and I wish I had another chance this season to try it some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rschneid Posted March 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Brad, I have ridden the last 2 weekends at WT. Both were suprisingly good. Noone there last Sunday and I had the slopes to myself. I was going to try and get to WT on their closing weekend but the forecast is for rain Fri and Sat, which may mean they are all done. Thinking about 7 Springs, but that is a haul. Maybe its time to put the boards to sleep until next year. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubz Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Rich I forgot to mention I have a fairly narrow board I ride and the high angles help keep my heel toe inside the edge. You can back off a bit, like Jack said to keep the boots inside the edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Brad, I have ridden the last 2 weekends at WT. Both were suprisingly good. Noone there last Sunday and I had the slopes to myself. I was going to try and get to WT on their closing weekend but the forecast is for rain Fri and Sat, which may mean they are all done. Thinking about 7 Springs, but that is a haul. Maybe its time to put the boards to sleep until next year. :( As a new parent my snowboarding season is done. Even doing a weekly bike ride has become an issue since I have a night class one night a week and the bike ride would get me home late on another night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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