not sure if this is a hoax

photodad2001 · March 6, 2008

We already are hated in there very region of the world where our energy comes from.

The world hates us because of Hollywood and shows like Survivor. That's where we take Americans and put them in a place and offer a million dollars if they can make it 30 days in a place people already live!!! "...uh, can we have some bread?" "Noooo, we're Americans, this is a GAME!!! This is really hard, we don't have our cell phones, by the way, I hate soccer!!!"

bobdea · March 6, 2008

Ais, no matter what you say or or think the fact is that no one likes to be occupied by a foreign entity.

to someone who's still getting bombed, and has been bombed "back to the stone age" they feel like they're under a dictatorship as long as we are there. That may not be the reality but that is how people feel.

Lets say that tomorrow the iraqi government nationalized oil and kicked out the US and all US contractors. We'd replace the government, by force if needed. In effect, that's a dictatorship.

Japan is a totally different story, different premise to the war, different people and different long term goals.

the carrot top comment, yeah if he was in iraq getting bagged for stupid **** while wearing our uniform or working for our government or for a a "security firm" payed by our government.

Also, anyone american or from wherever should be subject to the iraqi legal system while in the country the US pay roll. That means, get busted doing something stupid you pay by the law of the land.

Many americans would be on the gallows if that were the case but you'd see less crime pretty much over night and iraqis would probably feel there is accountability.

To assume that a nation should just bend over and take it from a foreign entity in a war they feel was unprovoked and unjust because we say they should is myopic.

We need to hold our military and our hired private firms as well held to the highest standard in the world and we are not doing that, as has been displayed over and over.

It really comes down to that if our government is going to invade countries and there can even be ANY argument of if it is justified we need to work better PR than we have been.

a bit on the contractors <embed style="width:400px; height:326px;" id="VideoPlayback" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=9103759071448511628&hl=en" flashvars=""> </embed>

Kirk · March 6, 2008

you mean we can lock up carrot top for being unfunny?!?!?! YES!
Um not really... They are there for stability purposes not as a dictatorship. I don't think we should have gone in there but the fact is, we did and now we have to clean up the mess. Hopefully they will set up their own **** and we can get the hell out of there. ( recall how the US was in Japan after WWII... do we "dictate" what Japan does right now? nope... though we still have bases there which is weird... but whatever)

yeah some people in the military are idiots. some people in the government are idiots... you think that other countries don't have similar morons? we are hated not only there but other regions, maybe we should just divide the country into halves and one half will do whatever the world wants us to? Now you're talking about the government anyway and not the military... who are controlled by said government. we wouldn't have our troops there if the majority in congress and senate didn't vote yea on sending them there.

ok off mah pulpit. LOL

btw bob, no personal offense meant to you, just making counter points.

Well said Aisling

Arc2Arc · March 6, 2008

And he has a gun???

Arc2Arc · March 6, 2008

the guy aught to be tossed out no benifits no pay no schooling no nothing.

accept maybe some phsyco help

Dr D · March 7, 2008

WE should definitely stop occupying Germany, Japan, and Korea then!

**** Bob we have been in Germany and Japan since the 1940's They won't let us leave it'd tank the local economies. Try a different argument on that one. Like everything else in life there is two (or more) sides:D

bobdea · March 7, 2008

india and many parts of the middle east.

I must of forgot that. in the case of japan they'd be screwed due to the terms of their surrender what they signed into, given, we nuked them.

twice

So maybe they took any option they had and dealt with it.

Being ruled by britain was great for the US, we liked it so much we're part of the UK today, that's why the queen is on our 1 dollar bill right?

If we left germany I am sure it would not be too big a deal, we also did not invade germany for no good reason. Hitler had taken over most of europe. Sadam had, err, tried to take kuwait a decade prior to this war?

He was also known for running a secular government that had a penchant for killing members radical muslim groups. In 1979 islamic fundamentalists tried to oust him, after that he cracked down on these groups.

Do you have any idea why we are hated in the middle east?

Some of the same reasons Israel is..........

D, perception is everything, we are perceived as the russians were years ago or the english were for a long time, it's not our place to invade the world. If we are about to do it we best do it in a humane way and make OUR people in these places behave up to the highest standard possible.

Volunteer military? Another reason they need to be at a higher standard.

photodad2001 · March 7, 2008

There's no video, but a detailed account of what happened. Not a soldier living in a harsh, war ridden envioronment, but a rich, professional golfer out in the lush surroundings of a country club. I could have titled this with an obvious bad pun, so after reading this, please no reference to being 1 under par on a hole.

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=ap-golfer-birdkilled&prov=ap&type=lgns

willywhit · March 7, 2008

see what happens Larry ?

See what happens when you toss a puppy off a cliff Larry ?

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8V80VA00&show_article=1&catnum=1

makes ya wonder

Dr D · March 7, 2008

That I am in favor of withdrawing our troops from germany and other places. I think they are better used elsewhere for national security reasons.

That said , you are right bob perception is every thing. yours and perhaps much of the world's is hugely skewed in this situation. My unit has been deployed to both Iraq and Afghanistan and in the Iraq deployment much of the time was spent on humanitarian missions. Providing clean water to villages that hadn't had any in 25 years. building medical clinics and schools, installing sewer systems in towns that had never had them previously. we are loved and thanked daily by a majority of the country. i also have several civilian patients that have been over there for three plus years on 6 and 2 schedules training policemen. They continue to return because they see the good that is happening there.

We see the worst ten percent on the evening news here. If it bleeds it leads as they say. I would love to see us finish and get out but the crrent situation is not stable and chaos would be the result and we sould certainly bear culpubility in that chaos as we do in the current situation.

There are a lot of hard truths to WAR and as a person who has served 13 years I can say I am thankful that there are people capable of dealing with those hard truths. (not all are obviously) Some great man said this " it is good that war is so terrible or we would come to love it too much" General Robert E Lee maybe? anyway, there is so much more to the situation than we see on CNN and FOX that we really have no business passing judgement on many of the people involved.

disclaimer: I in no way endorse the abuse of animals in any situation. Euthinasia should not be practiced by throwing a puppy off a cliff. A quick painless death is acceptable if necessary and the most humane choice but not throwing the poor thing off of a cliff. :mad:

Dr D · March 7, 2008

see what happens Larry ?
See what happens when you toss a puppy off a cliff Larry ?

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8V80VA00&show_article=1&catnum=1

<OBJECT height=355 width=425>

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQUdJ6FdUQ0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></OBJECT></P>

makes ya wonder

this is exactly what we are doing when we wade into debate on the war in IRAQ. We should be demanding the information and venting our frustration at the government and the media for leaving us blind and dumb not at the Troops who are left to deal with the Hell of war. we are responsible because we no longer know how to hold our government accountable to the people.

Dr D · March 7, 2008

that's an unfortunate sentiment.

Its a realist sentiment. Life isn't a fairy tale. I have euthenized at least three deer this year on the side of the road. there is no Vet care for roadkill. they get hit and are laying there with all four legs broke and internal injuries and you have two choices drive by or stop and cut there throat. what do you do? this is an example of a hard truth. I stop and cut their throat so they don't have to suffer.

In a perfect world there would be an army of philanthropist vets to treat and care for the hundreds of deer injured and killed on 10 miles of road between my house and work. kind souls that will do it for free and provide the equipment and supplies from their own pocket.

get real man fairy tales are for kids. we do the best we can with what we have.

willywhit · March 7, 2008

that's an unfortunate sentiment.

I'm sure it's ALOT more messy than a sick puppy getting tossed off a cliff.

I can't even imagine how being IN that mess must screw with one's mind.

Dr D · March 7, 2008

every war has been horrible. The last two have been much worse mentally because of the lack of support from home.

These men have agreed to kill for all of us they have agreed to do things against nature because they believe that there is a higher purpose. Liberty for all men. When they see the crap that we are fighting about at home suddenly the things they are asked to do seem more vile and more dehumanizing. When you see a PTSD vet remember that in part you made him what he has become.

LeeW · March 10, 2008

Dont go to www.puppytoss.com it is now owned by some adult company. just thought i'd mention it before you even go to that site (in case if youre at work)

Civ · March 10, 2008

This is so sad to see. The truth is that no animal has EVER wronged a human, yet we have a long list of wrongs against the animal world....Im not talking about hunting or fishing either(they have a defined and useful purpose). Animals that attack people arent doing anything malicious, they just dont know any better and are acting on instinct. We as humans seem to have no problem killing animals for fun, profit,....etc. The world really would be better off without us.....not that I plan on leaving or anything:smashfrea

I just wish more people had the kind of deep respect for other creatures that i and many others share. Humans are a disease.

willywhit · March 10, 2008

The world really would be better off without us.....not that I plan on leaving or anything:smashfrea
I just wish more people had the kind of deep respect for other creatures that i and many others share. Humans are a disease.

thank god for good humor, groomed up freshies and a hope for a better brighter future:rolleyes:

how did his dad put it again ? :smashfrea

"a dedication to traditional American values and a determination to direct them toward making the United States a kinder and gentler nation"

C5 Golfer · March 10, 2008

OUR people in these places behave up to the highest standard possible.
Volunteer military? Another reason they need to be at a higher standard.

Volunteer ?? I think they lowered the requirements to meet the enlistment quotas Bob, so I believe we cannot meet that "higher" standard of which you speak. I'd personally would like to see the "draft" again.. What is wrong with serving your country- specially those seeking citizenship?

http://www.wesh.com/news/14553422/detail.html

Dr D · March 11, 2008

http://www.break.com/index/puppies-get-revenge-on-marine.html

C5 Golfer · March 11, 2008

http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/throwpuppy.asp

bobdea · March 11, 2008

yes, a draft probably would be a good thing.

people care much more when the people fighting are not there by choice, at least that's the theory anyway.

You're also dead wrong about the higher standard, if you know you're gonna hang for raping a local or gonna do 20 for getting caught stealing and these things are enforced then you will see way less of this ****.

Maybe hand bad soldiers over to the local government if they harm a local or their property in any way?

Yes, I realize there are problems with those solutions but there is really no excuse for much of what our people do.

Who cares what the standards are for enlistment are, if you expect someone to go ****ing kill people you can at least make sure they follow the rules. This applies to the security companies as well.

C5 Golfer · March 11, 2008

yes, a draft probably would be a good thing.
people care much more when the people fighting are not there by choice, at least that's the theory anyway.

You're also dead wrong about the higher standard, if you know you're gonna hang for raping a local or gonna do 20 for getting caught stealing and these things are enforced then you will see way less of this ****.

.

Don't think so Bob, If you lower your requirements you cannot expect your standards to be higher, same in the military or your local Micky D's.

C5 Golfer · March 11, 2008

Perhaps I don't understand the relationship between requirements to join the military and the standards that are set by those of superior rank. I would think they are two independent entities: basic criteria that one must meet in order to join the forces, and standards (rules, codes, reputation, etc) to maintain once in the military.

You are correct in that they are two different entities - My point is it does not really matter if it is the US Army or Wal-Mart—Your “chances” of meeting those “standards” the Execs set are lower if you lower your requirements.

Side issue - Have we not lowered our education requirements in our public school system? – Hence we have HS graduates today that have a tough time meeting societies’ standards?

bobdea · March 11, 2008

at least that's what the numbers say, the average IQ is higher http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.05/flynn_pr.html

I also think that that IQ tests are biased but in our society they are a great measure "social intelligence"

Al, the reason you're dead wrong is that if you join the military out of free will you're submitting your life by choice, it's not the same as applying to the local burger shack.

It's never going to be perfect but it's clear that there has been little attempt to even try. Look at Abu Ghraib, it's pretty clear that the people involved were 1, stupid 2, *******s not familiar with the geneva convention 3, not concerned with being caught because they took PICTURES.

You can't fix 1 but 2 and 3 you can certainly work on

C5 Golfer · March 11, 2008

at least that's what the numbers say, the average IQ is higher It's never going to be perfect but it's clear that there has been little attempt to even try. Look at Abu Ghraib, it's pretty clear that the people involved were 1, stupid 2, *******s not familiar with the geneva convention 3, not concerned with being caught because they took PICTURES.
You can't fix 1 but 2 and 3 you can certainly work on ]

Not quite sure what you are expecting to explain by the gross photo—every war with which we have been involved there have been atrocities and violations. But since you are showing the photo and quoting the Geneva Convention which outlines treatment of POWs – do you think that person is identified or conforms to Article 4 of those agreements?

Article 4 defines prisoners of war to include:

4.1.1 Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict and members of militias of such armed forces

4.1.2 Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, provided that they fulfill all of the following conditions:

 that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

 that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance (there are limited exceptions to this among countries who observe the 1977 Protocol I);

 that of carrying arms openly;

 that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

4.1.3 Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

4.1.4 Civilians who have non-combat support roles with the military and who carry a valid identity card issued by the military they support.

4.1.5 Merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

4.1.6 Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.