Guest Kirby carver Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Has anyone else tried the 2005 Head freeride or freestyle(oops!) boards with the Intelligence™ chip? My pre-ride scepticism of the technology had me thinking 'just another dumb gimick to revive the industry'. Wrong! To put it mildly, I was blown away by the stability of this board. Rutting black diamond corduroy at lightning speed on a 157!! Speed usually reserved for my WCR 171 Prior. It wasn't exactly buttery at slow manuervers, but it was as park friendly as any other FR board I've ridden (Brtn Custom 158). The board has a smart chip that receives signals from fibres infront of the front binding. As you faster, the chip stiffens the flex of the board. I could actually hear it work on the snow. Check out all the gorey details at http://www.head.com. This leads to my philosophy. If you change your riding technique to adapt to how fast you are travelling, what happens to your technique if the board does the adapting for you? In theory, your technique should remain the same regardless of fast you go. WHAT DO YOU THINK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Originally posted by Kirby carver WHAT DO YOU THINK? I think you're imagining it. I dunno, maybe you're right, but I'm still skeptical. It sounds like some real pie-in-the-sky technology there. Unfortunately I can't read the relevant pages of the Head website becaue it spits out a bunch of error messages. This also doesn't give me much confidence in Head's fancy technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 here you go baka: How it works: 1. Intellifibers in front of your bindings generate energy from vibrations. 2. This energy is transmitted to a microchip at the center of the board. 3. The chip amplifies the impulses and sends them back to the intellifibers in the right intervals. 4. The intellifibers stiffen up. This means within 0.005 seconds (lightspeed!) the intelligence board stabilizes. Depending on your your speed and snow conditions, it changes it's tornsional flex for more grip and control. The harder you ride, the more energy goes into the Intellifibers. Click on the animation to see Intelligence in action. I really really really dont buy it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 First of all, I want to say that I have little first hand knowledge. However, I do know that Piezo-electric technology has been around for a few years. It has been used in mountain bike suspension, tennis racquets, and skis as well. (all sports that I avidly take part in) I have always questioned users of all of the above equipment when I have seen them. The response has ALWAYS been that they loved the equipment and could definitely tell the difference. I have tried only the mountain bike suspension. It did what it claimed, but I still did not see that it was necessary on account of the extra expense (disclaimer: I am probably not a good enough mountain biker to notice a difference). People seem to like the stuff though, so I cannot argue with them. If you like it, great, go for it. Unfortunately for me, Head does not make a board big enough for my feet, so I will not be riding their boards anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 The piezo effect exists, but it's really small. I'd be pretty surprised if it does much, but what I do know is that this "Microchip" isn't going to amplify anything without a power source. Since there doesn't seem to be a battery, and the topsheet isn't a solar panel, this seems like a real load of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Originally posted by Steve Dold The piezo effect exists, but it's really small. I'd be pretty surprised if it does much, but what I do know is that this "Microchip" isn't going to amplify anything without a power source. Since there doesn't seem to be a battery, and the topsheet isn't a solar panel, this seems like a real load of crap. Steve, why can't the piezo-electric effect itself power the "microchip"? Realize that the the "microchip"is probably a rather simple feedback circuit that redirects the energy created by the piezo-electric effect of the intellifibers back to themselves to stiffen the board in pulse with the vibrations - dampening the board at higher speeds. How is this different from the K2 Electra created years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Steve, Have you ridden the board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirby carver Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Steve, I had my doubts before my first test flight. There's no smoke or mirrors involved, it just works. I understand the concept originated from the technology used in helicopter blades to improve efficiency and stability in the air. BTW my opinion is totally unbias to the brand. What I really want to know, as an instructor, is what could this revalation do to riding progression. For example as speed increases on conventional equipment you have to increase your edge angle to stay in control. IMO this 'smart' board should allow your technique to remain the same as you push it. No more 'oops I just dragged my back knee in the snow to get angulated enough'. All this is assuming the athlete using the board is riding at a level high enough to 'get it'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Why would it change your technique? All it does is help dampen the board. If anything, I would see this board as teaching beginners to be sloppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Ja discovered in 1880 by Peirre and Jacques Curie. They actually remained a phenom until about 1940, there actually cystals and exhibit electrical charges under mechanical loading. unitil the 1950's they were of little use and started to be used electrometer tubes and then were commercialized then the charge amplifier priciple was patented by WP Kistler in 1950 and gianed pratical significance in the 60's. The introduction of MOFSET solid state circuitry and the developement of insulating material such as Kapton propelled the use of Piezoelectric sensors into all areas modern technology and industry. Piezoelectric Measuring systems are active electrical systems. That is the crystals produce an electrical output only when they experiance a change in load, they cannot perform true static measurements. But when Quartz transducers, when paired with the adequet signal conditioners, offer excellent quasistatic measuring capabilities. There are countless examples of applications where quartz based sensors accurately and reliably measure quasistatic phenomena for minutes and even hours. There are two types, high and low impedance. High impedance units have a charge output that requires a charge amplifier or external impedance converter for charge to boltage conversion. Low impedance types use the same element as the high impedance and also incorporate a miniaturized built in charge to voltage converter. They also require and external power supply coupler to energize the electronics and decouple the subsequent DC bias voltage from the output signal. Most Kisler sensors incorporate a quartz element that is sensitive to either compressive or shear loads. the shrear cut is used for multicomponent force and acceleration measurements. Other specialized cuts include the transverse cut for some pressure sensors and the polystable cut for high temperatue pressure sensors. The finely lapped quartz elements are assembled either singly or stacked and preloaded in some manner. The quartz package generates a charge signal, measured in picoCoulombs(not KillingtonCoulombs), that is directly proportional to the sustained force. Each sensor type uses a quartz configuration optimized and ultimatly calibrated for its particular application, e.g. force , pressure, acceleration or strain. Dynamic behavior, Piezoeletric sensors for measuring pressure, force maybe regarded as undedamped, spring mass systems with a single degree of freedom. They are modeled by the classical second-order differential equation. hope this helps! Right said Shred:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 I didn't mean to say it wouldn't work, I just said that I would be surprised if it was noticeable, but I've been surprised by things before. Maybe it does do something. Nothing amplifies without an external power source, so the "Microchip" or whatever they're calling it isn't going to amplify power. It might steer currents or what not, but not amplify. This still sounds goofy. Has anyone ever heard of an electronic circuit powered by fluctuating, intermittent jabs of electricity generated by a flexing piezoelectric device? How would you regulate it enough to run anything? It seems like you'd have to have some kind of power supply in there to rectify, regulate and filter all the current from the fibers. Maybe it works, but jeez...I can't imagine how, and I've been working in electronics for a long time. If it does I'd like to know how. Shred: LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 First: who knew that Shred was packing all that brain?!? (upstairs) Second: weren't piezo's used successfully to dampen the wingtips of fighter planes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slam Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Originally posted by D-Sub This means within 0.005 seconds (lightspeed!) the intelligence board stabilizes. I have ridden the board and first of all electricity does not travel at light speed, the reason your light turns on immediately is a similar push effect from when you turn on your faucet, electrons push other electrons etc. Anyways, the flex of the board definately changes, However I am not sure whether or not I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Ok so it is true if you were traveling in a car at the speed of light (anyone , anyone) and you turned your headlights on, would they do anything. So as long as the electrons are pushing.. all things held the same.. vector quatities should add together so yea, your lights would actually be beaming fast than the speed of light.. Or would just shine backwards out of your trunk. All I know is my space ship ,,which travels at warp 5 max, before the governor kicks on ,,Xenon Obluvial Hextagal photo cells work! But if I slam on the brakes, theres a pause in light generation until it catches back up. What does yours do. Ekkk orga dork said Shred! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slam Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Originally posted by Shred Gruumer Ok so it is true if you were traveling in a car at the speed of light (anyone , anyone) and you turned your headlights on, would they do anything. So as long as the electrons are pushing.. all things held the same.. vector quatities should add together so yea, your lights would actually be beaming fast than the speed of light.. Or would just shine backwards out of your trunk. All I know is my space ship ,,which travels at warp 5 max, before the governor kicks on ,,Xenon Obluvial Hextagal photo cells work! But if I slam on the brakes, theres a pause in light generation until it catches back up. What does yours do. Ekkk orga dork said Shred! I am not sure, I was talking about electrons contained with in some sory of wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Matt D Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 I have heard about 4-5 first hand reviews of the Intelligence Boards. I must say I'm impressed with the feedback I'm hearing. I can't wait to try 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Steve, There have been a few pretty big advances in piezo electronics in the past few years. The best specific application of them was in the shoes of endurance event participants, such as those in the Riad Galoi (sp?), Eco Challenge, etc. Small electronic devices can now be powered via crystals in their shoes. By small, I mean tiny - last I had heard, a digital watch was about the limit, although advanced items like GPS receivers were predicted "soon." Now, does Head say it works purely via the piezo effect? It's entirely possible that it uses some sort of magnetic induction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Mirror70: interesting, I'll go check that stuff out. I know there has been research involving wings and replacement of movable control surfaces, etc. but AFAIK not as a power-generating device. Time to fire up Dogpile and see what I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Shred Groomer is right, I was recently traveling at the speed of light and went to turn my headlights on, Son of a bitch if they didn't shine out of my trunk backwards. My physics professor was right. Nothing can exceed the speed of light. Not that I put Shred on the same level as my old physics prfessor (unless you are a physics professor) but I think he's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirby carver Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Originally posted by mirror70 Why would it change your technique? All it does is help dampen the board. If anything, I would see this board as teaching beginners to be sloppy. First of all this ain't no department store board we're talking about. This board would eat small children and a side order of snow blades for lunch. Understanding how far you can push a board before it bites back is a valuable piece of knowledge. You use this knowledge and add it to your comprehension of your own riding skills. This equation equals the limits of how dynamically you will ride 'said' board. On a conventional board you become more aggressive with edging, balance, and pressure the faster you go. On an I.C.T. board with the same length, side cut, flex etc. you can use a more passive technique at the same speed. It's as if the board gradually gains cm's of length, smoothly and proportionately to your velocity. In layman's terms it makes you feel like your riding a longer board when you need it most. Less input — more output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsider Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 for those of you that still dont understand the piezo-electric effect, here is a very simple example of how the process works. Im sure most of you have seen the lighters that work with the press of a button rather than the standard flint and steel(my preferance). The spark that is generated from the downward force of you finger comes from the small piezo-electric device within the lighter, and no other powersource is present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Not sure why would you change any of your techniques, you still need enough of an edge angle to bite the snow without popping out, you still need to be balanced over your edge, it sounds like the only difference this pseudo-technology would offer is a damp ride. No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus the virus Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 I think I´m too stupid to ride such an intelligent boards, because, what does it fakie will do? But I think I should ask my grandma, yes! She´s an alien from planet Mars and I think one of her three heads will know why we need this marketing gimmick! Regards cyrus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neuffy Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 well....electicity doesn't travel quite at the speed of light....but it does do 0.98 c through copper.... but only 0.66 c in fiber optics...Which is why using fiberoptic interconnects in computers would slightly increase latency but would allow you to increase frequency (less/no interference). Conceivably the board could stiffen, but I just wonder HOW....as in, what is the physical mechanism for the stiffening...if it also is piezoelectric,...Wow. But I doubt there's enough power to maintain that. Even the best piezoelectrics require a decent power source to maintain changes in shape/stiffness etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rikytheripster Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 If(chip) it is modelled on a simple DOF eqn what would happen if the excitation frequency equalled the natural frequency and thus resonance occurs, wouldnt this damage the gizmo in the board, or woulkd natural damping stop the amplitude increasing too much? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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