Guest sandarapark Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 heres two different toe side carves http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=8760&highlight=coiler (it's the one willywhit posted) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest arcit Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Where you get this photo? Im disappointed I never got to ride for him as a team rider recently. (Political issue, but not with him, but with the team manager-- so dont ask.) From an old Snowboard Life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groovastic Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 that's def my favorite photo! notice that his hand is under the line of his board! i love it! and i must say that i like Will Garrow's photo as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maciek Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Here's a new article on Toeside technique:http://www.bomberonline.com/articles/toesideproblem.cfm Good article on carving with long board/slow body transition (in other words more recreational). Not quite so good if you consider that type A is used for short boards (slalom) and fast edge transition. Yes if you want to lock in turn type B toe side is very good, but try this on crowded slope (not to mention crowded with triangle gates) and you will see "your preferable technique". BTW in toe type A you do not work with your body to balance a lot in quick turns. I am pretty much sure of that despite what your theory says. If it was for long turns then you would be right and it would be completely inefficient technique. That is why we ride boards with bigger sidecuts and smaller sidecuts, softer and stiffer, longer and shorter differently. I would not be so sure about final statements of this article as it does not consider scenario of riding (equipment and type of turns). I think it is good article but oversimplifies things that actually contribute to technique. Also I would suggest to look at knees and put some analysis there as they may compensate your hips (btw hips movement is very slow and costly way of moving and it could be very troublesome to body build of certain riders), way of hips twisting (as it is not so natural for body movement and eurocarving says it is not the way to go anyway). In general I would say that it is not so much hips that are important as knee dropping and lifting inside shoulder to stay square to snow. Hips are important to initiate turn, but then staying with them sticking out to snow means locking turn and trouble with weight transition to rebalance edge when needed (it can be done if you plan on turn, buyty not so if you have to have react quickly). Really, see how racers do this on different courses. Well I mean that recreational carving is much different than racing and all types have their uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maciek Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 that's def my favorite photo!notice that his hand is under the line of his board! i love it! and i must say that i like Will Garrow's photo as well! Exactly! Excelent photo. There is no dropping hips: just that knee of "rear leg" is dropped and inside shoulder is high and square to snow. Hips have to stay within boundaries of snowboard to be quick in turns. I thought it was Jasey Jay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maciek Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 tpalka, I disagree with your assessment of Jasey Jay Anderson's technique in that pic. He is going a lot faster than Karol, and is stacked and compressed. His hips are down. He's bent at the waist but forward, not towards the toeside edge, and not excessively. Your red lines are not in the right places. His knees are apart, shoulders level, hands off the snow, it's a great pic. It's basically what someone riding like Karol would look like at 3x the speed. Yes his hips are down... to board and not to snow. You are promoting slow technique with dropping hips down to snow. It only helps for turn initiation, but they should not stay there for turn. Shoulder has to go up and knee has to go down to snow instead and then it cannot go that low with steep angles of the board. that is the most important part of efficient technique of riding. And no you do not to go that fast. In fact knee technique will make you fast as you are responsive and able to make fast turns rather than long locked turns. In slalom if you drop hip you are dead and going off-course. You are supposed to work feet and knees only and upper body including hips are supposed to be quiet. Just ask any racing coach on this forum. However I would suggest excercises with dropping hips to snow to gain confidence and touch of technique. I did that myself and it helps at the beginning to hone. I do this weird things when I am out of shape (inlcuding "flying on wings" with my arms extended sideways). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istvan Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 On the other hand I fully agree, this technique is great fun on certain slopes, but you still need to know how to ride everywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 That has been my wallpaper for years.That IS the one. I like that shot too........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 One important aspect of the comparison between Jayjay and Karol (reflexting to the post with both pictures beside each other) is that Jayjay demonstrates a very powerfull pull-push race technique. The second difference that strikes me is how Jayjay seperates his knees as well on frontside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulk Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Erik Boing:) Sugarloaf '06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 They where 18cm and 19cm 180-185 very fun.. white top sheet team only, around 94to97 Really? A fellow instructor got a hold of some kind of weirdo Rossi prototype back in about 95, and I swear it said 16cm on it. I remember being dumbstruck by it. It was way narrower than my 19cm FP of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Good article on carving with long board/slow body transition (in other words more recreational). Not quite so good if you consider that type A is used for short boards (slalom) and fast edge transition.Yes if you want to lock in turn type B toe side is very good, but try this on crowded slope (not to mention crowded with triangle gates) and you will see "your preferable technique". BTW in toe type A you do not work with your body to balance a lot in quick turns. I am pretty much sure of that despite what your theory says. If it was for long turns then you would be right and it would be completely inefficient technique. That is why we ride boards with bigger sidecuts and smaller sidecuts, softer and stiffer, longer and shorter differently. I would not be so sure about final statements of this article as it does not consider scenario of riding (equipment and type of turns). I think it is good article but oversimplifies things that actually contribute to technique. Also I would suggest to look at knees and put some analysis there as they may compensate your hips (btw hips movement is very slow and costly way of moving and it could be very troublesome to body build of certain riders), way of hips twisting (as it is not so natural for body movement and eurocarving says it is not the way to go anyway). In general I would say that it is not so much hips that are important as knee dropping and lifting inside shoulder to stay square to snow. Hips are important to initiate turn, but then staying with them sticking out to snow means locking turn and trouble with weight transition to rebalance edge when needed (it can be done if you plan on turn, buyty not so if you have to have react quickly). Really, see how racers do this on different courses. Well I mean that recreational carving is much different than racing and all types have their uses. Maciek......... I've seen you ride. I'll just stop typing right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Maciek......... I've seen you ride. I'll just stop typing right now. :lol: Stifle yourself ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Really? A fellow instructor got a hold of some kind of weirdo Rossi prototype back in about 95, and I swear it said 16cm on it. I remember being dumbstruck by it. It was way narrower than my 19cm FP of the day. I'm not smart enough to know by looking if the board in the photo is 16 or 18, but I do know that Rossi made some 16cm waist boards, Sondra Von Ert was riding them for a while when she qualified for Nagano or a little before. I know she was not the only one to have one either. I even had a chance to buy one for cheap last year but I feel my burners at 18cm is plenty narrow for me. Not into the whole water ski stance thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 I'm not smart enough to know by looking if the board in the photo is 16 or 18, but I do know that Rossi made some 16cm waist boards, Sondra Von Ert was riding them for a while when she qualified for Nagano or a little before. I know she was not the only one to have one either. I even had a chance to buy one for cheap last year but I feel my burners at 18cm is plenty narrow for me. Not into the whole water ski stance thing. Most of the 16 Rossi are really made by custom builders: Prior, Secert Team, etc. with Rossi graphics Most of the boards grandma rode where not built by Rossi. Bill Enos had Tons of priors made with rossi logos many of them went right to Grandma. The Boots she rode where made by Kildy and I from technica parts, we also would modify her TD1s some times and I beleave Fin has made some softer, thinner TD1 plates that she ended up with. Their could have been a few Real 16cm Rossi that came out of the rossi factory, but I have only seen and riden the team addition 180-185 white tops in a 18-19cm waist. I was on the rossi program at the time the boards came out and had to have all my 16cm waist stuff custom made. Marc Bujhold, was the team manager and could only get US riders 18 or 19cm waist boards. Just what I recall...I could be wrong but we all wanted narrow sticks and rossi had none then.... Really? A fellow instructor got a hold of some kind of weirdo Rossi prototype back in about 95, and I swear it said 16cm on it. I remember being dumbstruck by it. It was way narrower than my 19cm FP of the day. Like I said I could be wrong, All of the boards with the Graphic Will is rocking in the photo where 18 or 19 it was a big deal at the time because of the length and larger radius they white tops where the best board rossi had put out up till then. There may have been some Rossi stuff being tested but from 1993-this year, I never saw a 16cm "ROSSI" under any athletes feet at any race there where 16cm boards out there with rossi logos but they where not rossi. And the true Rossi team stock stuff was 18-19 on tour. Could there be 16cm Rossi gear out there? Sure..but I never saw it. Is there 16cm gear with rossi logos on it yep tons... Chris prior has always made better sims race boards then sims and Mark Fawcett is thankful. At the time he made better Rossi also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Most of the 16 Rossi are really made by custom builders: Prior, Secert Team, etc. with Rossi graphics Most of the boards grandma rode where not built by Rossi. Bill Enos had Tons of priors made with rossi logos many of them went right to Grandma. The Boots she rode where made by Kildy and I from technica parts, we also would modify her TD1s some times and I beleave Fin has made some softer, thinner TD1 plates that she ended up with. Sounds like you spent some time with Sondra. She was one of my heroes coming from SV and making Olympics team at 34 or 36 something like that. She had tiny feet ( compared to me) I figured that was the only way you could ride those 16s. Hows the wheel? My shoulder is better but still sucks to do p/t and all. Later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Wheel is healing, just going stir crazy with out anyreal action in my life.... Shoulders suck so bad, I think it is almost worst when your legs work and you can ride but not at full speed... How is the snow holding up? Worst winter ever down here... Ya Sondra and I are old friends. Wish I saw more of her. Always thought she whould always be around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 In Austria winter is just arriving. We have had the first real snow for this season in Eastern Austria (about 1m and another 1 forecasted for tomorrow - til now we had 30-40cm accumulated at 2000m - skifields start at 500 here due to normally great snowcover - I just had my first day freeriding for the season - after 40 days on man-made snow).:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recon Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Its All Good! The great thing about this sport is we all can express ourselves! We each have a style of our own, unique to only us! I would say, My carving hero is Larry Leadingham ! Will Garrow is a very close second! Very close!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecshredder Posted March 24, 2007 Report Share Posted March 24, 2007 Soft boot style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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