BMW is pretty D#$5 Good Company

[C5 Golfer]

I took my X5 in for service this morning - first one - and wow what a change from the Lexus I used to own, who were pricks. BMW - Great attitude and service. Asked in depth questions of any issues or problems.

I said "No, other than the usual service and I need new wiper blades and more washer fluid"

Later that day they called and said it was ready to pick up anytime.

Best Part -- everything was "No Charge".

BMWs service is up to 50,000 miles or 4 years is no cost to the owner except for tires, everything else including wipers, light bulbs, etc is no cost. I know you pay up front or it is hidden in the cost but what the hell - it is only money.

[Art]

Al where did you take it? My old Svc Manager is in charge of the seattle shop.

[Dr D]

that would be the response they were looking for:biggthump :biggthump :lol:

quality stuff too! doesn't break much and 350k miles is normal. god help you if the part you need has wires coming out of it though! might as well be platinum if its an electrical part. mech parts are cheap

[skategoat]

Last time I brought my BMW in to the dealer for service, I was greeted by a "concierge". He had no job other than to "service my needs". After dropping the car off and having it driven away by the car jockey, I was led up to lounge where I was served a cappucino and offered the morning paper while I reclined on a leather chair. After a few minutes of waiting, I was whisked by a driver to the subway station in the comfort of a brand new X5 customer shuttle.

Great service, for sure but who pays for it?

A couple of hours later, I get a phone call from the service advisor recommending a "fuel injector flush" and complete brake service on all four wheels because the pads and rotors are at 25% of minimum spec. Total price for the service is $1,200, I'm told. I was in for a $120 oil change, BTW. I say no thanks and pay only for the oil change.

I've never been back. I don't care if next time they offer a Swedish massage and a free haircut.

I now take my BMW to an independent mechanic who builds and campaigns his own BMW race car and is well known to the local BMW club. He has all the software and special tools. I take my Toyota to a nice, old Irish guy in the neighbourhood who always offers me a little shot of Jamesons (he doesn't partake himself) and gets me cheap filters and fluids for when I do my own maintenance work.

The best piece of advice I ever got about servicing my car is - "Pick a mechanic with low overhead."

[skategoat]

that would be the response they were looking for:biggthump :biggthump :lol:

quality stuff too! doesn't break much and 350k miles is normal. god help you if the part you need has wires coming out of it though! might as well be platinum if its an electrical part. mech parts are cheap

Well any car can make it to 350k miles if you pour enough money into it. With a BMW, you'll probably end up paying for it 3 times over. Reliability ratings for BMW are pretty abysmal lately. Lots of anecdotal problems - bad electrics, brake rotor warpage, trim falling off.

I can tell you I've had plenty of problems with my 2003 320i. My 1989 325iX, on the other hand, she was as reliable as a hammer and as easy to maintain.

For luxury car with few problems, look no further than Lexus.

[skatha]

Lexus, a luxury car filled with genuine Toyota parts-my favorite Lexus story is my next door neighbor taking her LS300 in and then finding out her new parts were proudly emblazoned with the word "Camry".She called, demanding genuine Lexus parts, only to be told that there's no such thing....no thanks, I'll keep my Bimmer....a Lexus is just a Camry with a facelift

As for maintenance, I already have my service department picked out...

And, as the tech guys at Roundel have already recommended, don't let BMW pick your maintenance schedule-they're counting on you trading that car in in 3-4 years....

[skategoat]

Lexus, a luxury car filled with genuine Toyota parts-my favorite Lexus story is my next door neighbor taking her LS300 in and then finding out her new parts were proudly emblazoned with the word "Camry".She called, demanding genuine Lexus parts, only to be told that there's no such thing....no thanks, I'll keep my Bimmer....a Lexus is just a Camry with a facelift

As for maintenance, I already have my service department picked out...

And, as the tech guys at Roundel have already recommended, don't let BMW pick your maintenance schedule-they're counting on you trading that car in in 3-4 years....

I'm kind of the other way. When I owned an Audi, I was thrilled to find VW parts that fit. I remember buying VW wheels for less than half the price of Audi wheels. The only difference was the centre cap that had a VW logo'd disc glued onto it. Out of curiousity, I peeled off the VW disc an found, voila, an Audi logo underneath it. You wouldn't believe how satisfied this old miser felt that day.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Depends on which Lexus. Some of them are Toyota models with facelifts, some are unique. Just like Honda/Acura. Who cares, do you like the car or not? For example, we own a 97 Acura 1.6EL, which is a car not available in the US. It's basically a 4 door Civic with the 126 hp motor. You could get that in the US, but not in Canada - you have to buy the Acura. It comes with a few extra bits you can't get on the Honda, and the price is justified so who cares? I always call it the Honda, which irks my wife.

Now we're about to lease a Toyota Sienna. My buddy is the shop foreman at the local Toyota dealership, so we got a good deal and I know he'll take care of it right when it needs service.

One thing for sure - I'll never buy a "domestic" car again.

[kipstar]

For my experience, BMW is not suited to hot climates at all; it is assumed in THailand that buying a BMW or Benz will require multiple servicing at the rate of 2 or 3 times the rate of a Japanese car. People still buy them, but for me, having to get servicing every 2 months and paying more than what i pay now in 3 years for a Toyota pick up, leaves the BMW miles behind.

Aircon problems, wiring problems, transmission problems; the list was never ending. Every single person with a BMW here will have similar stories in the rainy season where they are prone to leak and stop running.

However... beautiful ride if you are willing to put up with the maintenance issue.

As for the Lexus vs. Toyota; you are paying for a high spec car from a company that already has pretty much delivered some of the top rating cars (Camrys and so on) in a ton of tests. I could care less about the badge on it; for sure with a Lexus, at least here, you are buying something that runs well, feels nice inside and for Thailand at least has no maintenance issues. Seems good enough for me; the thought of driving something from Germany has no more appeal than something from Japan, despite the war mongering past of both countries. When the first Tongan car comes out, I'll be lining up for that one :-)

[C5 Golfer]

Al where did you take it? My old Svc Manager is in charge of the seattle shop.

Bellevue shop, justr down the road from where I work..Scratch that... where I show up to pick up my pay check.

[C5 Golfer]

Depends on which Lexus. Some of them are Toyota models with facelifts, some are unique. Just like Honda/Acura. Who cares, do you like the car or not? For example,

One thing for sure - I'll never buy a "domestic" car again.

I think the Lexus ES330 is the same as the Camry and the RX350 (Great car for the money but a little noisy for a Lexus) is the same as the Highlander, the LX470 is the same as the LandCruiser. I think the GS300 sedan with 4 wheel drive is about the best one.

But I don't think I will ever own a Lexus again based on my BMW experience. Domestic cars suck - except for the Corvette -- too bad Chevy/GM can not do to the other cars what they did for the Corvette. Wonderful service and maintence schedule and reliability. Get this, my first service that actually will do anything or replace anything is at 100,000 miles in the Corvette, and it is an American car. The Corvette is a 1998 C5 model and has never had a problem, it goes to the dealer for an oil change every 8k or so miles.

Mercedes used to be a great car - I think they have lost what they had. The Pre- mid 90's cars were great, now they are a high priced Chrysler. My 1980 280 SL is and continues to be a great car. Still the original clutch, exhaust, shocks and the engine has never been touched in 27 years of hard driving and I push it to 5-6000 rpm most of the time.

sign me car nut

[C5 Golfer]

A couple of hours later, I get a phone call from the service advisor recommending a "fuel injector flush" and complete brake service on all four wheels because the pads and rotors are at 25% of minimum spec. Total price for the service is $1,200, I'm told. I was in for a $120 oil change, BTW. I say no thanks and pay only for the oil change.

."

One needs to be careful of all auto service-- specially if you are a female. Biggest ripoffs going on all vehicles are these:

Brake jobs -- most of the time all that is needed are pads. Rotors and bearing and calipers will go >150K miles - sometimes they are warped sure but change the rotor plate not the calipers and all that. they will sell you the full meal deal if you let them.

2nd rip off is the 30k and 60k mile service -- on most cars you do not need to do this but they scare you with the warranty void crap. Case in point.. My Corvette which mentions all that needs to be done at 30K miles is replace the air filter for 30-40 bucks, the Chevy dealers wanted $600-$800 to do a 30k service which was not specified by the manual, when I called Chevy to complain they said it was purely a dealer optional service, only one dealer - Lee Johnson Chevrolet in Kirkland was honest and said just do the airfilter. My 2000 RX300 Lexus was to be serviced at 30K and 60K miles at about $700 each -- Never did it - traded it in with 72K miles on it - oil change only every 6K miles or so.

Be careful -- it is legalized fraud

[skategoat]

C5, I'm not so sure about rotors. I usually replace mine every 50,000 kms. or so. I never bother resurfacing, I just replace them. And I do it myself because changing brake pads and rotors is just about the easiest thing you can do for a car next to an oil change. And each time you do it, it'll save you $200 per wheel, depending on the car.

[alexeyga]

I was in for a $120 oil change, BTW. I say no thanks and pay only for the oil change.

What kind of oil do they poor in? Gold based?

As far a BMW-s go, my family's good friends got a 740 last year, 70K for the base model if I'm not mistaking... Had to be towed back to the dealer 3 times in the first 10k km... 2 times electric issues and once for the transmission change... They still kept it though... for other reasons...

As much as I like beemers, i'd avoid new ones for their iDrive piece of sh%t... Unfortunately enough Mercs and Audi went the same route (Lexus/Infinity on the way)...

I've been dreaming for a while about restoring one of the old 6th-series coupes... But by the time I'll have enough spare time and money there won't be any left to be restored/in restorable condition....

Somewhere in low 90-s was a major attitude change with all car manufacturers, marketing department took over the engineering, from that point cars have became no more that an appliance with precisely calculated live expectancy... Everybody started cutting costs and quality got flushed down the drain... Today's Toyotas won't stand a chance against mid-80s Toyotas when it comes to reliability...

Once in a while the check-engine in my Camry rings some thoughts about buying something old-school, without a check engine, emission-gas-recirculation (EGR) crap, brake calipers that were made to work the whole car's lifespan, etc...

[Neil Gendzwill]

I think the Lexus ES330 is the same as the Camry and the RX350 (Great car for the money but a little noisy for a Lexus) is the same as the Highlander, the LX470 is the same as the LandCruiser. I think the GS300 sedan with 4 wheel drive is about the best one.

You're right about the 330 and 470, not sure about the others. The IS350 is a great car, I don't think it's based on any other Toyota although of course there might be some "platform" stuff going on, not sure.

Personally I've hated everything at BMW since Bangle got in there. Also, I just can't justify that kind of money for a car.

By all reports the vaunted Mercedes reliability is in the toilet these days.

I really like our Honda and would buy another, but having my buddy in the Toyota shop is such an overwhelming advantage that we're going with the Toyota - today, in fact. It's replacing an old Mazda van which I like, but the local Mazda dealership has pissed me off so that I'll never buy there, much as I love their product line.

[roscoe]

mercedes are heavy anyways. Definitely go with a beamer. Way faster/better control for the money.

My dad had an '85 325e until last year - I wanted them to keep it so I could drive it, but mom came up with the old, no air bag - no driving. I got to drive it a few times though, even at twenty years old it could still rip it up. Hit about 70-75 in 3rd, and thats when I was learning to drive stick - probably could have gotten it goin faster if I really knew what I was doing.

After I cracked up my dad's car he decided to finally buy himself a new car (previously bought used) and went back to BMW. Got a 325xi, manual - great car.

My family's never owned a Lexus, but have heard that some of them in the past few years have had major problems (often the SUVs). However, a friend has had one for about 5 years - no problems I've heard of so far.

Still, for the money, my vote goes to the BMW. an M5 sure would be nice... I guess I'll just have to stick with bumming rides to the mountains for now though

[C5 Golfer]

C5, I'm not so sure about rotors. I usually replace mine every 50,000 kms. or so. I never bother resurfacing, I just replace them. And I do it myself because changing brake pads and rotors is just about the easiest thing you can do for a car next to an oil change. And each time you do it, it'll save you $200 per wheel, depending on the car.

If my math is correct you are replacing the rotors every 30000 miles -- that seems very weird, do you drive it hard and race it? My Chevy Sub went 75 K miles without a brake pad or rotor change.. dunno how longer it would have gone , I traded in on the Lexus which was 72K Miles and still same rotors but a pad change in the back at 50K miles. The 280 SL Mercedes I think got rotor change about after about 85K miles.

What kind of auto are you driving skategoat?

[skategoat]

If my math is correct you are replacing the rotors every 30000 miles -- that seems very weird, do you drive it hard and race it? My Chevy Sub went 75 K miles without a brake pad or rotor change.. dunno how longer it would have gone , I traded in on the Lexus which was 72K Miles and still same rotors but a pad change in the back at 50K miles. The 280 SL Mercedes I think got rotor change about after about 85K miles.

What kind of auto are you driving skategoat?

Right now, my main drive is a 2003 BMW 320i. It only has 40,000kms on it and I replaced all four rotors and pads in the fall. I don't drive it hard. It definitely needed pads. The rotors I could have kept for another 6 months to a year but since I've got the car up on stands, I've blocked off the afternoon and I'm getting dirty anyways, I replaced them. $250 for the rotors. I figured why not.

My Toyota 4Runner has 60,000kms and is still on the original rotors. I think even the pads are original but I could be mistaken.

BMW brakes wear fast. No question about it. Perhaps there is a corelation between braking performance and disc/pad wear?

I also own a little fun car ('89 911 cabriolet). But with the traffic in Toronto these days, I can't even get the thing up to an interesting speed and I get sick of shifting so it mostly sits in the garage.

[C5 Golfer]

Right now, my main drive is a 2003 BMW 320i. It only has 40,000kms on it and I replaced all four rotors and pads in the fall. I don't drive it hard. It definitely needed pads. The rotors I could have kept for another 6 months to a year but since I've got the car up on stands, I've blocked off the afternoon and I'm getting dirty anyways, I replaced them. $250 for the rotors. I figured why not.

.

Was it not covered under warranty? Or did the free maintenance come after 2003 model year? I do not know when the free 50,000 mile 4 year, maintenance started with BMW.

[skategoat]

For the '03 model year, the free maintenance was 2 years. Warranty is 3.

[powell1.8]

I am not yet in a possition to own a luxury car, but I do work on them daily. I would put Lexus at the top for best overall fit,finish, and feel. BMW/Mercedes are comparable to each other. High end Mecedes are way up there, but thats almost in another class(ultra luxury). The feel of a Lexus to me is far more refined than a BMW or Mercedes. BMW and Mercedes are stiff/rigid feeling, while Lexus's are smooth and soft. Toyota's, I mean Lexus's, have far more reliable electronics, which is what I am mainly concerned with. They are smarter cars. When you buy a Toyota, I mean Lexus, you are getting a car that has been put through the ringer. There will be no surprizes. German engineering is great. I love 330xi's. Maybe my favorite car on the road, but for reliability, luxury, and long term use I would take a Lexus. High end VW/Audi's are nice, but no thanks. Not for the money. There is a reason Toyota/Lexus is dominating the market. My vote goes to Lexus, if that was not obvious. Happy driving.

[powell1.8]

One more thing. There is no such thing as a domestic luxury car. Makers may claim this, but do not be fooled. They are cheap plastic peices of @#$%. Just my thoughts. Sad but true. I doubt this comes as a shock to any of you smart folks here, although it is JUST MY OPINION. If I don't vent it now and again I'll go crazy.

[C5 Golfer]

I am not yet in a possition to own a luxury car, but I do work on them daily. I would put Lexus at the top for best overall fit,finish, and feel. BMW/Mercedes are comparable to each other. High end Mecedes are way up there, but thats almost in another class(ultra luxury). The feel of a Lexus to me is far more refined than a BMW or Mercedes. BMW and Mercedes are stiff/rigid feeling, while Lexus's are smooth and soft. Toyota's, I mean Lexus's, have far more reliable electronics, which is what I am mainly concerned with. They are smarter cars. When you buy a Toyota, I mean Lexus, you are getting a car that has been put through the ringer. There will be no surprizes. German engineering is great. I love 330xi's. Maybe my favorite car on the road, but for reliability, luxury, and long term use I would take a Lexus. High end VW/Audi's are nice, but no thanks. Not for the money. There is a reason Toyota/Lexus is dominating the market. My vote goes to Lexus, if that was not obvious. Happy driving.

I second that 330xi - I think it is a 328Xi this year-- for those who do not know it is a 4X4 3 series BMW coupe or sedan with a auto or a 6 speed manual - Glad there are some automakers left out there who still offer this manual tranny - and a 3 liter straight six motor. Also damn glad there is an auto maker still building what I think is a perfect motor, the Straight Six cylinder. That is what Mercedes built thier reputation on - well one of many items - but that straight six with fuel injection is so simple - my 280 Sl has one and it is the sweetest sound at 4500 RPM and higher. The new BMW 335 coupe and the soon to be on the market BMW M3 (V8 motor - damn!)-- wow what a car. It is on my wish list - maybe 61st Birthday I will have one in the stable or is it a quiver of cars. ????

[roscoe]

The 330 is such a nice car. I know how fast the 325 excelerates, so I can only imagine how much faster the 330 is with its bigger engine.

Now a nice car :1luvu: ... BMW M6 ...

http://www.motiontrends.com/2006tm/m02/bmw1/m6_hamann.shtml

[Justin A.]

I second that 330xi - I think it is a 328Xi this year-- for those who do not know it is a 4X4 3 series BMW coupe or sedan with a auto or a 6 speed manual - Glad there are some automakers left out there who still offer this manual tranny - and a 3 liter straight six motor. Also damn glad there is an auto maker still building what I think is a perfect motor, the Straight Six cylinder. That is what Mercedes built thier reputation on - well one of many items - but that straight six with fuel injection is so simple - my 280 Sl has one and it is the sweetest sound at 4500 RPM and higher. The new BMW 335 coupe and the soon to be on the market BMW M3 (V8 motor - damn!)-- wow what a car. It is on my wish list - maybe 61st Birthday I will have one in the stable or is it a quiver of cars. ????

I'm just wondering...but what did you do before you retired? You definitley have retired guy syndrome-house paid, kids out of the house, car paid, etc; now what to spend money on. Seriously lol. I respect the fact that you were able to stay away from it until now and were able to keep patching that hole it must have burnt in your pocket. But in all honesty, what did you do?