Justin A. Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 GM, meanwhile, sticks shiny plasti-chrome on a Tahoe, calls it a Hummer and tries to evoke toughness and durability when in reality any H2 taken off-road ends up broken. Hummers are actually pretty damn good offroad. They aren't re-badged chevys like everyone thinks, they are PART chevy-the back 1/3 of the chassis is a modified Denali section. The Front and mid sections of the chassis were both designed by hummer. I just hate it when people bash on things incorrectly with bad information. If you want to bash on Hummer, use real problems that they have, such as the Weaker-than-it-should-be front tie rod, the four wheel independent suspension (although it does work better than I would have expected), and the fact that they still use Leaf Springs on their trucks. ...I have to say that my 93 Explorer is one of the best cars ever. With a simple hub modification (for manual hubs ) and I did have to replace the transfer case ( $125 used 100K ago) and no other problems. A couple of batteries, a couple brake jobs, starter etc that would happen on any car. 309K and still going strong. Doesn't burn oil, starts good in winter and I can sleep three in the back with the seats laid flat... You're one of two people that I've ever heard of that likes their Explorer. I have 3 close friends that have mid-90's explorers, and all three of them have had more than twice their value put into them in repairs in the past year. I'm glad to hear that you have a good one though. Back to the OP: I think that that ford that you posted looks....goofy. I know exactly where they were trying to go with the design, but I think the execution of the design was sub-par. The Visibility will suck from the drivers seat, but who cares, you don't actually need to look outside the cabin to drive, just at your cellphone and newspaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 I just hate it when people bash on things incorrectly with bad information. If you want to bash on Hummer, use real problems that they have, such as the Weaker-than-it-should-be front tie rod, the four wheel independent suspension (although it does work better than I would have expected), and the fact that they still use Leaf Springs on their trucks. RE Hummers: It seems like for any combination of traits that you find important in a car (utility, cargo space, mileage, handling, ability to parallel park on a hill in San Francisco, etc.) that there is another car that does the same thing but better, and with less of the "look how big my wang is" factor. I think it's hilarious to see them in SF; what do they do? Circle around for a parking space until they give up, go back home, and take BART in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted February 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Ever notice when you have a car/truck discussion how everyone either has a car that has had no problems while the guy next door with the same car cannot keep it out of the Dealer's repair shop? Could be a whole new discussion but I think sometimes the owner can will his car to behave or fail. It is all in the attitude of how you feel about your car. Case in point.. When I was married - gawd that was a long time ago - we had 3 cars, 2 were mine and 1 was my wife’s, she had a negative attitude about any car’s reliability. When I would go out of town on business leaving her with 3 great running cars and 2 happy kids - when I returned in a week or so all three cars would be having issues of some type and the kids crying. I spend the weekend fixing the cars and they would be ok until the next time I went out of town, same thing would happen. ( no she did not sabotage them, we'd have crap like broke clutch cable, flat tire, brakes squealing, won’t start, window switch broke, radio quit ) None of this crap would happen when I was home, only when I left. ( I know any wonder why I divorced her????) So my point is any car will run great if you have a good attitude – these mechanical machines have little gremlins in them just waiting for you to speak to them, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 I think it's hilarious to see them in SF; what do they do? Circle around for a parking space until they give up, go back home, and take BART in? ha ha.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted February 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 front tie rod, the four wheel independent suspension (although it does work better than I would have expected), and the fact that they still use Leaf Springs on their trucks. I think it is good they use leaf springs in the trucks -- provides a lower center of gravity than independant suspension which why I think the Hummer - military one specifically and the M151 had such training issues with rollovers. Weird that it was a FORD design, they rolled over and caught on fire -- does that suprise you? Here is how the DOD disposed of the M151 "The US Department of Defense deems all M151 series vehicles "unsafe for public highway use". Therefore, these vehicles have to be made "unusable by removing major components and destroying the unitized body so it cannot rebuilt". However, this policy gradually changed from releasing vehicles intact to releasing cut or crushed bodies only. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 I think it is good they use leaf springs in the trucks -- provides a lower center of gravity than independant suspension which why I think the Hummer - military one specifically and the M151 had such training issues with rollovers. Weird that it was a FORD design, they rolled over and caught on fire -- does that suprise you? I think that it's odd that they use leaf springs on a supposedly "luxury" vehicle. Leaf Springs are such a step backward technologically that it seems almost counter-productive to still be using them. Yes, they are dead reliable, but the ride is harsh, you can experience bump steer much more often, and most importantly in an offroad vehicle- they don't flex NEARLY as well as a comparable coilover setup. It just doesn't make sense in my book. The biggest thing about Hummer that's wierd to me is that they produce two mutually exclusive traits in their vehicles-Luxury and Offroad Ability. It's like marketing a Formula Car variant as a grand tourer...it just doesn't work. Hence why they never marketed the H1 as a Luxury Vehicle. FYI, Hummer (Humvee, H1) was designed and built by AM General, not Ford to the best of my knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted February 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 FYI, Hummer (Humvee, H1) was designed and built by AM General, not Ford to the best of my knowledge. Sorry for the confusion - I was mentioning Ford designed the M151 - forerunner to the Hummer I believe. If I remember correctly the M151 was killing more GIs than the enemy at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Oh ok, thanks for the clarification. Ford also produced some of the original Willy's MB1 GPs back in WWII, did you know that little bit of useless trivia? How Ford went from making the most reliable and versitile vehicle (save the unimog-but that's a whole different story) of all time to making crap is just beyond me. Granted, Willys Overland came up with the design and Ford just cranked 'em out, but still, you think they would have learned SOMETHING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Hummers are actually pretty damn good offroad. They aren't re-badged chevys like everyone thinks, they are PART chevy-the back 1/3 of the chassis is a modified Denali section. The Front and mid sections of the chassis were both designed by hummer. I just hate it when people bash on things incorrectly with bad information. If you want to bash on Hummer, use real problems that they have, such as the Weaker-than-it-should-be front tie rod, the four wheel independent suspension (although it does work better than I would have expected), and the fact that they still use Leaf Springs on their trucks. Colour me corrected. That's a very common notion that the H2 is a Tahoe, Yukon or Denali (never could tell the difference between those three). So I will bash on Hummer for a) less than stellar off-road worthiness, b) unbelievably bad cargo room for its size, c) weak front tie rods (common YouTube video demonstrating this), d) leaf springs, e) having lots of useless plasti-chrome bits, f) being the ultimate Poseur truck. But not for being a Tahoe/Yukon/Denali. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Colour me corrected. That's a very common notion that the H2 is a Tahoe, Yukon or Denali (never could tell the difference between those three). So I will bash on Hummer for a) less than stellar off-road worthiness, b) unbelievably bad cargo room for its size, c) weak front tie rods (common YouTube video demonstrating this), d) leaf springs, e) having lots of useless plasti-chrome bits, f) being the ultimate Poseur truck. But not for being a Tahoe/Yukon/Denali. It's kind of even more pathetic that they ended up with such a worthless piece of trash if they actually designed it from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted February 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Oh ok, thanks for the clarification. Ford also produced some of the original Willy's MB1 GPs back in WWII, did you know that little bit of useless trivia? How Ford went from making the most reliable and versitile vehicle (save the unimog-but that's a whole different story) of all time to making crap is just beyond me. Granted, Willys Overland came up with the design and Ford just cranked 'em out, but still, you think they would have learned SOMETHING. Ok.. yes I did know that bit of trivia. One of my auto projects in my "younger and foolish" years was building a jeep for fun outing with a club to which I belonged. I bought a no rust shell of a 54 CJ3B ( high hood if you know what that means ) , had a chassis for it. Built the rear end from a 64 Wagonner , shortened the long side to equal the short side so I had a centerdrive rear end with a Dana 44 -1 casting. installed a T-98 Ford truck tranny with a silent center drive transfer case from a 75 CJ5. Hooked it up to a built up 350 CI Chevy and cooled with a 4 tube horizonal radiator. Installed a tilt wheel from a Chevelle and hooked that up to a Ford T bird power steering box. Added a front end of a brand new Dana 30 with a posi unit and 4:27 gears. Installed a swing pedal setup instead of thru the floor board clutch and brake system from a 65 Pontiac. Ran a Holley 4 barrel for a while but it proved to be a bit too much power with the Eldebrock Torqer manifold so went to a 500 cfm Holley 2 barrel set up. Damn fast and squirrely but it loved the sand dunes and going fast. I scared the crap out of my mom once when I got on it on a empty street one day. Anyway Justin A-- since you asked about trivia here is one back at you .. Tell me what the MB stands for and more importantly what the GP stands for in the description of the famous Jeep from WWII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 What we all need is a 1979 International Scout.Read this: http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Mechanics_Tale/Mechanics_Tale_What_Real_Men_Drive.S281.A9647.html I'm of the firm belief that cars today are way too complex for their own good. Well, our government has a lot to do with that. A '79 Scout could not be sold in the US today. They can't even bring over the Land Rover Defender. Everything has to have airbags and be smothered in emissions equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschurman Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Well, our government has a lot to do with that. A '79 Scout could not be sold in the US today. They can't even bring over the Land Rover Defender. Everything has to have airbags and be smothered in emissions equipment. You say that like it's a bad thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 not at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrobb Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Well, our government has a lot to do with that. A '79 Scout could not be sold in the US today. They can't even bring over the Land Rover Defender. Everything has to have airbags and be smothered in emissions equipment. Did they recently outlaw the Defender? I've seen them at dealerships as of a few years ago granted that was in VA and I've seen many on the road here in CA as well. It's rather spartan interior is what I assumed kept it out of mall crawling soccer moms and your average SUV owner's radar. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Anyway Justin A-- since you asked about trivia here is one back at you .. Tell me what the MB stands for and more importantly what the GP stands for in the description of the famous Jeep from WWII. Not sure about MB, but GP stands for General Purpose. How about Humvee? (not the right spelling I know) Or better yet...DUKW :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 They were sold in the US in the mid-90's. They had to stop because Land Rover wouldn't put airbags in them. Or at least that was the reason that was made public. Used ones for sale aren't hard to find, but they aren't cheap. ML320 CDI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted February 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Not sure about MB, but GP stands for General Purpose.How about Humvee? (not the right spelling I know) Or better yet...DUKW :p Justin, --Contrary to popular belief, the GP did not stand for "General Purpose.'' GP was a Ford engineering term, "G'' for a government contract vehicle and "P'' for 80-inch-wheelbase. The MB was the second revison of the first Jeep of that series which was called the MA, so it is Revision B - which became MB. Dont forget the MB and the GP were 2 different vehicles. Have a good one, wish my bike would get here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Justin, --Contrary to popular belief, the GP did not stand for "General Purpose.'' GP was a Ford engineering term, "G'' for a government contract vehicle and "P'' for 80-inch-wheelbase.The MB was the second revison of the first Jeep of that series which was called the MA, so it is Revision B - which became MB. Have a good one, wish my bike would get here! it looks like justin brought a knife to a gun fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDY_2_Carve Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 The original post is a picture of a concept vehicle, no? Looks like some crap you'll see at the auto shows in my Car and Driver. You know the crap that doesn't even look close to what actually gets produced.... P.S. I drive an Acura, wife has an Accord, and my bike is a Honda. I bet you can't tell where my loyalty is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronG Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I think it is good they use leaf springs in the trucks -- provides a lower center of gravity than independant suspension " I was just getting ready to post a long article regarding coil springs vs. leaf springs. I thought to myself what does this have to do with the original post so I just hit the delete button Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Ever notice when you have a car/truck discussion how everyone either has a car that has had no problems while the guy next door with the same car cannot keep it out of the Dealer's repair shop? Could be a whole new discussion but I think sometimes the owner can will his car to behave or fail. It is all in the attitude of how you feel about your car. Case in point.. When I was married - gawd that was a long time ago - we had 3 cars, 2 were mine and 1 was my wife’s, she had a negative attitude about any car’s reliability. When I would go out of town on business leaving her with 3 great running cars and 2 happy kids - when I returned in a week or so all three cars would be having issues of some type and the kids crying. I spend the weekend fixing the cars and they would be ok until the next time I went out of town, same thing would happen. ( no she did not sabotage them, we'd have crap like broke clutch cable, flat tire, brakes squealing, won’t start, window switch broke, radio quit ) None of this crap would happen when I was home, only when I left. ( I know any wonder why I divorced her????) So my point is any car will run great if you have a good attitude – these mechanical machines have little gremlins in them just waiting for you to speak to them, Funny you say that I own a 90 model Toyota Cressida and I swear this thing is possessed by a demon god from hell on PMS... It's never major stuff... just creaks, squealing brakes, an auto transmission that has absolutely no idea what it's supposed to be doing (Clumsy) the list goes on... and on..... But she'll start first time every time... I service everything on that one.. My other car an Evo 6 Makinen Edition is just something else... I bought it as a weekend car for cruising (at Mach .98 ) and that is the most wonderful piece of machinery I have ever had the honour of owning.. Servicing costs next to nothing and It hammers .... HARD I'll never grow up .... EVER... though the G/F loves the Evo.... No-one drives it except me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted February 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 From the 2007 Auto Show North American Odd no european autos or Fords ( I know Jaguar is a Ford ) on the list. All asian except for the two from GM and the Jag Winners were also announced in the following categories: “Most Athletic” – Pickup Truck of the Year: Chevrolet Silverado “Most Sex Appeal” – Sports Car of the Year: Jaguar XK “Most Dependable” – Sedan of the Year: Toyota Camry “Most Respected” – Luxury Car of the Year: Lexus LS 460 “Most Compatible” – Minivan of the Year: Hyundai Entourage “Most Spirited” – Entry Level Car of the Year: MAZDASPEED3 “Most Versatile” – Crossover of the Year: Mazda CX-7 “Most Resourceful” – SUV of the Year: GMC Yukon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 "So my point is any car will run great if you have a good attitude – these mechanical machines have little gremlins in them just waiting for you to speak to them." I read a screamingly funny article a while back about exactly that. The guy had a plane that had a problem with one of the lights - every time he flew by himself it would play up and cause him trouble. When his wife flew with him, she would tap the panel and "talk to it sternly" and it would fix itself. Apparently she did the same with all their household appliances... So just goes to show, you just need to hold your tongue right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 From the 2007 Auto Show North AmericanOdd no european autos or Fords ( I know Jaguar is a Ford ) on the list. All asian except for the two from GM and the Jag Winners were also announced in the following categories: “Most Athletic” – Pickup Truck of the Year: Chevrolet Silverado “Most Sex Appeal” – Sports Car of the Year: Jaguar XK “Most Dependable” – Sedan of the Year: Toyota Camry “Most Respected” – Luxury Car of the Year: Lexus LS 460 “Most Compatible” – Minivan of the Year: Hyundai Entourage “Most Spirited” – Entry Level Car of the Year: MAZDASPEED3 “Most Versatile” – Crossover of the Year: Mazda CX-7 “Most Resourceful” – SUV of the Year: GMC Yukon And the 3 Jeeps that made the list...the Trailhawk got one (don't remember for what) and the Wrangler Rubicon got "Most Awesome Offroad". Can't remember the third one... it looks like justin brought a knife to a gun fight. You saw that fight? Damn, you must have spotted me in the midst of my stalking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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