No words for it

[D-Sub]

yes, I do have an idealistic view of society, and I don't think my idealistic view is unrealistic.

again, though, I ask you what you would do if, hypothetically, laws just somehow disappeared tomorrow? Would you steal, kill, rape?

anyway...back to my point about the topic: Canada has many, many anti firearm laws, and this still happened. I wont say this proves that laws work, but I will say that it proves that laws to not protect us completely.

[Galen]

That does not logically follow - you need more than one data point.

There is all sorts of room for arguments about whether there are more non-firearm-related deaths in countries with fewer firearms, or whether the tradeoff in individual rights is worth more safety, or whether or not the different firearm death rates are due to something completely unrelated to gun rights or ownership rates, etc., etc., but Canada definitely has significantly lower firearm homicide and suicide rates than the USA.

Saw a great documentary on gun control: they were trying to make the point that strict gun laws reduced shooting deaths. They used England as an example, but when they went there and interviewed average citizens, they didnt think the laws had anything to do with the low gun crimes, rather "we just dont shoot each other" ;) In the US, violence is glorified, and sometimes the preferred method of settling disputes. Until that changes, Gun laws will have little, if any, effect. :(

[kipstar]

Majority of criminals in NZ are repeat criminals.

Except for one prison, which is somewheres in the middle of nowhere, and makes prisoners do, for want of a better word, hard labour.

Like a chain gang. That one prison manages to have the lowest reoffense rate; it actually encourages prisoners to reform and also scares the crap out of them.

Prisoners as a result:

- learn skills like road construction, digging drains etc

- learn discipline

- don't ever want to waste their time in that manner again because it is friggin hard work

And thus can become a bit better off when they leave.

Prisons can be either:

- punishment & deterent

- rehabilitation

- somewhere to hide the crims

I think most prisons try to do both, and end up doing neither well; and the last point mixed with the first two is super counter productive.

It isn't about the laws, it is about the consequences of being a d&*k. And for whatever reason, something is broken in lots of places, so people are happy to be d&*ks.

Bring back chain gangs, manual labour and then maybe the prisoners can construct some new fancy big monolith structures.

I bet not too many non-Thai reoffenders here (where most prisoners get fed rotten food, stay 20 people in a room and get savagely treated).