Alaskan Rover

I went through a period a long time ago, where I went through a lot of different trucks...trying to find one that didn't have too stiff an action and yet not too rubbery, either. After a lot of trial and error, I finally found a set that was just right. I was into making my own decks back then, I bought most decks, but if you wanred a longer one back then you were "SOOL", so we'd get the jig saw out...that all started in H.S. shop class. I had an uncle that made that Ikea-type Scandinavian furniture, so I had lots of super HIGH Grade laminates to work with...perfect for skate decks. Later on, I got the surfing bug bad...and during that time I made my last skate deck...a deck shaped like a tri-fin gun. The trucks I was talking about went on that board. I truly loved that board. I sold that "gun deck" when I need fast cash in grad school. Hadn't used it in years. I wish I would have kept those sweet trucks off of it though, as with some axle extensions, they would be perfect for this slightly insane project. Oh well. I've seen the website for Randal Truck Company...their 205mm looks pretty tight, but I'd still need axle extensions, unfortunately. Too bad they don't make 250mms...but I can get those at "Daddies Board shop".

Rule #9 certainly hasn't seemed to have applied to you or Buell in ANY way, thus far. Your continuing to post in the manner you have been posting is largely emblematic of that. You apparently don't even read the last post in the thread you are replying to. Do me a favor and read it, as evidently you HAVEN'T. Do you take pride in provocateuring? Why do you do it? You are being provocative and childish. I don't see the point, especially when I asked both of you to simply drop it...I'm done, and yet you merely continue. In doing so, you are breaking rule #9. So for the good of peace, why not just drop it? How many times do I have to ask?

That's only YOUR perceived notion. You know as well, as I do, that TGR is mostly skiers...either AT or downhill or freestyle. They could CARE LESS if he was a harbooter. A lot of folks on TGR wouldn't even KNOW what a hardbooter is. The said quote was made in the sarcastic mode that is familiar on TGR....(except in 'Politcal Asshattery', where it is quite a bit more low key). Who are you to derive a commentor's reasoning for a post? Do you have some psychic ability beyond the norm to do so? Sarcastic jesting... verbal jousting, if you will, is what that post was about. You made a mistake in presuming otherwise. You must have been riduculed in the past as a hardbooter to have developed such thin skin in that regard. I am not presently a hardbooter, but that in no way makes whatever remarks I had said in a totally different website anything more than as I stated above...verbal jousting. In fact, I intend to jump on Fin's new "Softboot Plates" as soon as they are out of proto-type stage. That will allow me to start messing with cant and lift, and seeing how they might improve my present carving and possibly general snowboarding. Carvingchef has been giving these new plates glowing remarks. Who knows?...I may even find myself one day in a pair of hardboots IF they are as comfortable as others purport, regardless of what I said in my first thread. People are allowed to change their minds. If I find a supremely comfortable pair, or better yet, some sort of softboot/hardboot HYBRID, I may just do that. But I want to try those new "SoftPlates" first. That is principally why I am here, stuff like that...and also things like Donek Incline boards. I realize there may have been "softboot knuckledraggers" that came over here in the past, to do nothing but poke fun at hardbooters. I can readily feel that the resentment caused by those people in this room is palpable, but please note: not all "softies" are like that. Icluding myself. Harsh words were spoken during the famous hardboot/softboot poll debate on both sides. Lets not turn every thread into such a debate. That would be a debasement of the very values that forums are predicated upon. Now, can we just drop it? You already said, "Even". That's fine with me. It's too nice of a day to be typing when I could be sailing.

That is exactly what I thought. you attempt to sabotage yet this thread with your illogically used quote from a totally separate website. A website, as anybody knows, that has wholly different standards of conduct or verbage. In fact, your very usage of that quote, whether it was made by me or not, breaks the profanity clause in the BOL's own guidelines. It can be shown that even implied profanity is de facto profanity. Such language, either implied or otherwise does not belong here. Your twice usage of such in quotation or otherwise breaks BOLs profanity rules. TGR, as you know, has NO such profanity rules. Also, has it ever occured to you, that YOU may have garnered your OWN private meaningt from said quote? Also do you know what "sarcasm" is?? I was for years and YEARS SOLELY a skier. That remark was meant as sarcasm. As you know, TGR is FULL of sarcasm, amongst other ingredients. Do you think I would disparage my OWN skiing and ski racing heritage by saying such TRUTHFULLY? That you took such offense to being equated to a skier, just shows what YOU think of skiers. Skiing is my heritage, I am not a skier anymore, but I do respect my own heritage. Why don't you stop putting intentions in other people's posts, ESPECIALLY when said posts were made IN SARCASM? What your doing here is simply another attempt at sabotage. Do you often degrade yourself to that degree? Do I dredge up whatever idiotic comments YOU make on TGR and paste them to this board like a spiteful 5 year old? NO. Do I follow YOU around from thread to thread, posting provocateuring statements solely for the sake of beating a long-dead horse? Most emphatically NOT. Why do you? You are apparently FAR younger than I had previously thought. Your immaturity bespeaks your age, sir. You obviously have nothing positive or constructive to add to this post. If you insist on infantilism, please spare the others who may be reading, and Private Message, or email me. That is, in fact, exactly what Fin suggests in his Guidelines. This post is the last from me on this subject. If you consider it even, Fine. I have nothing more to say to you and this is the last from me on this subject, but if you have the need to continue, PLEASE follow the guidelines and do so via email. That is all, I ask.

Do you have some constructive advice on how to turn a winter board into a usable summer board and back again, Buell, or do you plan to sabotage this thread to your own end as you did that other thread? If that is your plan, you will not find me engaging in that regard. Your activities in that last thread and your own subsequent thread were most ungentlemanly, and it would be a long time before I'd forgive you for that breach, and here you are trying to start it up again. You obviously did not even read my last post. See above, please. Argue amongst yourselves if you must, I will simply delete the thread if it devolves to partisan bicker, but I will not engage. Nor will I engage any other attempts at sabotage or subterfuge. That is all. End of this discussion on my part, unless it pertains to the actual advice sought for in this thread. Have a good day.

I used to run track and cross-country in high school. After continuing non-competitve running in college, I fell off the "wagon" for a number of years and did NO running. I started running again last year. At first I did the normal thing and ran on streets, sidewalks and sometimes tracks. Almost always it was on some hard surface or another, often next to CO-spewing cars. My runs slowly turned into long "slogs"...and eventually into hateful "jogging"...with it's different gait. I was faced with a choice: Either stop running or find some way to make my running enjoyable again. I chose option two. I made running enjoyable for me again by now doing ALL my running on woods trails. What had devolved into long slog, now became a pleasurable, enjoyable and TOTALLY uplifting experience. It's weird...instead of a concrete-pounding "jog", my gait has once again become light and airy...like running on clouds. The way it was back in high school. And has become, once again, something I LOVE. Woods running begets a softer running surface, solitude, peace, and another even better attribute, and I can only speak for myself in this regard, but I feel a real oneness with my environment and the earth when I am silently and lightly padding through woods trails. I just love it. The weird thing is, if I cannot get to the woods trails, and run in town on streets, my running quickly evolves into a foot-poundinbg choir again. But for the most part, running has once again become a joy for me. And I am ever thankful to the woods for that change.

To KingCrimson; Justin A and Bullwings: I begin a thread explaining a dare that I accepted, either stupidly or not, and asking for advice. I immediately got some GREAT advice from Carvingchef and BlueB (who ARE into longboarding), advice that I am incredibly thankful for. Their advice, especially Carvingchef's, will allow me to take what may have been a bad idea and make it into something workable. Thanks to them, I will now have a 1" thick plywood subboard under the snowboard that will stiffen the board and allow the trucks to be spaced MUCh farther apart than I was previosly thinking (just before the upturn of both tips), and one that will have cut-outs in this sub-board for wheel clearance. It will still be a wide board, but will now be ridable, thanks to the axle-extensions AND full-length plywood sub-board. I asked for advice, got it and will be putting the advice to good use. That is the ESSENCE of a forum. What is NOT the essence of a forum is to belittle one's post strictly for the sake of belittlement...there is NOTHING positive about that. Putting words and actions in my mouth is also not beneficial to a forum. Where did I say "I've taken that into account, already."? What advice am I ignoring? You, in fact, 'discredit everyone' by belittling a post and making false accusations just to be combative. Why not review your OWN comments in this thread, and juxtapose those with rules of common decency? Why not tone down your rhetoric a little, if it doesn't add to the discussion (especially if it's decided specious)? I also don't understand the logic of making a long-drawn out discussion about a $25 difference in truck-set prices. Those are extra-wide trucks...of course they'll be a little more expensive. It's a price I am willing, albeit begrudgingly, to pay to get something that works well. Why not leave it at that? $25 is the price of two x-large pizza deliveries. It certainly isn't worthy of extended discussion. Posting just for the sake of being argumentative or belittling just lowers the quality of a board. If you don't have any positive advice, why not just walk away and don't say anything? The forum would be more peaceful that way. I've gotten the advice I was seeking...and like i said, thanks to the experience of some positive posters, it good enough advice to turn a possible bad idea into something that looks to be now workable, with no lasting injury to my board (and hopefully none to myself, also :) ). These were the facets of the very premise itself, so why not just leave it at that? I accepted the dare, because I liked the challenge of taking a winter board and making it work as a summer board, and then prepping it for work as a winter board again. It's just an idea I liked. I don't need comments disparaging my snowboard or myself...those are not the ingredients of a good forum, and it just makes the writer of those comments seem arrogant. As to Bullwings comments and other comments by KC and Justin A, I will be a gentleman and ignore them. Why some people feel a need to disparage others they have never met, I cannot fathom. If you have nothing constructive to add to a discussion, why chime in? So, in short: Lay off.

Excellent points, photodad!!! For the most part, I try to eat very healthily. Fresh veggies when possible; lots of fruit; things like long-grained wild rice instead of white rice; Red River Cereal, oatmeal and bran flakes instead of Sugar Snaps and Fruit Loops (although I LOVE Fruit Loops and Capn' Crunch!!!!! :) ). We make our own bread usually; and our own beans and soups....etc etc. My problem is that as far as sweets and junkfood go, I have absolutely NO intake limiter. I try to stay away from "junk food"...but when I do buy junk food...I automatically eat the whole box or bag in one sitting. Doesn't matter at all what size the bag or box was....it'll soon be TOTALLY gone. No such thing as a box of cookies or bag of potato chips in the pantry when I am in the mood for junk food...so those big "junk food bag "clothespins" see very little use here!!! Total prohibition of said offending items doesn't help either, as eventually it WILL be bought. To combat this "junkfood extravagence" I've taken to buying the absolutely smallest bag or box of junkfood that I can. Whatever I open is automatically going to be gone in 20 minutes....doesn't matter if it's a 1 pound bag of Corn Chips, or a 3 oz bag of Corn Chips, so I get the 3oz bag instead. I am thus slowly weaning myself off. And when I have a hankering for cookies or whatever, I'll have an apple instead, but it's hard...damn hard!!! I don't smoke, and drink only socially and very seldom at that, but I now know what smokers and drinkers feel like when they try to stay ON the wagon!!! I'm just glad I have a naturally athletic body and a high metabolism, otherwise I would be IMMENSE!!!!

Quoted by KingCrimson: "You're not into longboarding, you're making a silly toy. What is "expensive" is dictated by the market. I'm sure the average expenditure on a set of trucks is less than this." I beg to differ, KingCrimson. First, I never stated I WAS into longboarding, although my general skateboarding style had ALWAYS been more of a california road-surfing style...I found that out with the first time I 'trespassed' in a parking garage as a kid, when my other friends always went to the skatepark. Just that true wide-truck LONGboards weren't around back then, excedpt maybe in various places like santa Cruz, so we made due with what we had and bought the longest decks we could find and put the widest trucks on them we could find. Not quite a TRUE longboard with cut-outs or pointed ends, but they were workable. As far as "expensiveness", I believe market dictates PRICE. Whether that price is 'expensive' or not is dictated solely by the buyer's individual state of finance at the time of sale. If you're flush, it may be 'inexpensive'...if you're broke at the time, it may be deemed 'too expensive'....I'm somewhere in the middle, but have seen both ends. How does one determine what is "silly" and what is "serious"? Who are you to judge one from the other? I often dally in what other's can consider "silly", while at the time, I am doing it, I am quite serious about it. Some (not me) may consider it 'silly' to take chairlifts up a mountain just to come back down again to the same exact point...and spend $77 for the priviledge of doing such...and do it REPEATEDLY. "Sillyness" then, is in the eye of the beholder and not the beholden. Well....it's 8 am on a beautiful blue-sky morning...I'm going to be SILLY now....I'm glad I can be.

I'm not so sure. I think the trucks are a very integral part to a longboard. As Carvingchef found out, you can make your own boards...but trucks are something not to mess with. I think for people who are into longboarding, $75 for the right set of trucks is not too bad. I don't think long-boarding is any more of a "goof-off" than snowboarding or surfing or biking...and people spends sometimes thousands on snowboarding equipment, bicycles and surfing trips. In a way, longboarding is quite an inexpensive sport, considering the "mountain" is usually free. BTW: Which singer penned the lyrics for your signature quote?...I sorta like it. I didn't know there were too many 'rappin' theoretical physicists out there!!

Sometimes "inspiration" is of the poster kind, that hang up on the walls of your college guidence counselor...you know the ones; sometimes it an be found in a movie or even in a song... Once in a great while, it arrives in the form of a person. This is a video of one of those people. I tried to capture it off of its original source, but "Vimeo" wouldn't allow that, so I gave up trying. I don't know enough about 'vimeo'. It is in its original source in the following link (yeah...I KNOW...it's that dang TGR site, but this video is just too good to pass...and too inspiring)...I think you should be able to click the play icon. If not, I'll fix it somehow. http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189840

I love coyotes!! I think they're one of the coolest second-tier predators out there. I've been lucky enough to witness them hunting up close. The way they hunt small field mice and voles is amusing. They'll sit or stand stock still for many minutes and then jump straight up in the air and pounce down vertically. Rabbits and other fast-moving critters, they'll of course chase in standard mode. White settlers brought their hatred of wolves and coyotes over from Europe to this country and that is a shame. The natives who lived in this country for 8000 or more years didn't feel a need to wipe out the fellow predators. They too, hunted them...mostly for ceremonial purposes amongst certain nations...a wolf fur was a sign of respect, as was a bear fur. But for the most part, they respected wolves and coyotes...some tribes even considered them spiritual brothers. I still cannot figure out why the white man (including my OWN ancestors) had such a warped veiw on wildlife. Was it because white man's religion decreed that all earth was his dominion? I don't think the native culture shared that belief. Within 250 years of colonizing the east coast and working westward...white culture had managed to decimate the wolf, bear and buffalo species of North America, species that had co-existed with native culture for thousands of years. SHAME on our white ancestors. But they NEVER managed to decimate the wily coyote...although they certainly tried their hardest.

It was a link from Carvingchef...a place called "Daddies board shop". $74.99...I assume for a pair. I'll try to put the page link below: http://www.daddiesboardshop.com/original-s10-250mm-longboard-trucks.aspx

So, anybody get up the courage to try it strapped/booted in, yet??? It's too bad asphalt isn't as soft as powder....LOL. Although, I must say, I've bitten it plenty of times on blue-ice boiler-plate, and that isn't too much softer than asphalt!! I think ice is still probably better to fall on, because of the sliding factor. I wiped out on an icy corner racing my roadbike (bicycle, not moto), and just glided on my thigh...didn't get hurt at all. The next spring I wiped out on that SAME tight corner, no ice this time, to no good effect at all. Can you say 'road-kill'?? The worst burns I ever got, though were from grass-skiing in shorts and a tee-shirt. Never thought grass-burns could hurt sooo much. NICE boards, BTW!!!! I like that SPIRIT! If you can't find it in a store...MAKE it! I end up doing that a lot.

Yeah...I'm going to take BlueB's advice and use plywood instead of aluminum. I figure 1" thick should do. That'll stiffen-up the board. I'll make cut-out in the plywood above the wheels. I figure for re-filling the holes to prep for winter, I'll mix sawdust in with the epoxy...that'll stiffen up the epoxy mixture. Also: Thank you, Carvingchef, for your board truck advice. Looks like there are a few diff manufacturers of wide trucks. Those Surf-Rodz extensions look pretty tight. I figure the 250mm trucks plus 40mm extensions at each wheel equals 80mm extenson total, so 330mm width total. The board is about 300mm wide where the trucks would be...so that might work out well. Be hecka wide, longboard deck, though!!

If I was out in Cali on Mammoth Mtn (I WISH !!!)...I would definitely like to give those things a try. Heretofore, I have never messed around with cant and lift and how it affects boarding. I've tried a friends skis a long time ago who had cants under his bindings to take care of his knock-kneed condition, I think.....didn't like those AT ALL....ha ha. But that a whole different kaboodle. What stance do you ride at with those canted and lifted plates with your softboots? 55? 60? I am wondering how they would feel at lessor angles like 30 or even 15. Having never ridden canted, lifted plates before...I am just wondering how they'd feel at my standard 15/5 stance. Wonder if it would be worse or better. I realize there is really no need for cant or lift when riding a wide board at those angles, but I'd be curious nonetheless. And of course I'd be interested in taking them to 55 deg with those new "SoftPlates" at cant and lift. I think my Jamie Lynn boots are tight enough to do it. I sometimes try 55 deg just on my regular set-up and I don't like it at ALL! feels unnatural. So maybe cant and lift is the key at those hardboot-type angles. Wonder if and when Fin is going to produce them...and for what price. How do you like those plate adapters so far...now that you've been using them for more than a month?

BobDea: Ok....I'll add the Tanker to my growing list of boards to look at. I looked up Rad Air's specification page on the web, and it seems one needs an electron microscope to read the specific technical info...I would hope they put more care into their board manufacture than they do with their webpage. But alas, I'd add them to my list....ahem...BEHIND the following boards that are already on that list to be tried: Jones Solution splitboard; Jones Mountain Twin; Donek Phoenix Wide; Donek Incline. You might be right about some of the new land-rovers in terms of price. The newest fully optioned out Range Rover tops the scales at $126,000. The new LR3 tops out at close to $60,000 fully optioned. I think those prices are outrageous, although strictly speaking they ARE very capable offroad...it's just that many people consider taking them off road is taking them to the tee on the driving range. The ultimate in absurdly overpriced and overratedness has GOT to be the Mercedes-Benz Gelendawagon (G-wagon): they start at $135,000 and even higher for the AMG. They look like an old Montero and the damn things RUST. As far as OLD Landies (the original Series landies) are concerned, you are TOTALLY off the mark...and probably know nothing about them. Sure, the old ones cost a bit to pick up...up to $85,000 for a nicely restored one...but most decent 1960's exampes can be found for between $12,000 and $30,000. Sometimes as low as $8,000 even. Sure...that's a lot different from $950 for an old beater jeep....but they are worth EVERY penny!!...and more. Mine is 40 years old, been abused from Alaska to the Yukon to Maine and Montana and back again, and now the East Coast again...has NEVER been restored and is STILL super tight and square and doesn't even squeek. Does drip a lot of oil...they ALL do. ha ha. But it has well over 400,000 miles...it's earned a few drips and dents! Yeah, REALLY 'over-rated'....ha ha. They ARE widely known, and deservedly so, as being one of the most durable and rugged vehicles EVER made. The old Scouts and Broncos CJ Jeeps were good too, but they rust A LOT. So do the Toyotas. None of those vehicles is set-up for world-wide remote expeditioning quite the same as the original Series Land Rovers were. Here are just two of the many popular write-ups on the old Land Rovers: From: The Traveller's Handbook Chp: "Overland by truck or van" page 101: "Despite some weaknesses, Land Rovers are the most durable small four wheel-drive vehicles on the market. Their spartan comforts are their main attributes; most of their recent challengers are too lightly sprung and have too many car-like comforts to have any real reliability in hard cross-country use. The aluminum body panels can be hammered back into shape and then forgotten...." From: The Four Wheel Drive Bible Chp: Army surplus vehicles, Land Rovers, Etc. page 197: "...The greatest loss to the serious American off roader is the non-availability of the Land Rover. It is the best made off-road vehicle in the world and one of the best vehicles ever made of any type." And as the following photo shows: They DON'T need paint at ALL. ha ha. My own Land Rover Series IIA is the pix below that.

The mountains, like the oceans, pay in dividends that know not the tax return...the interest on those dividends are compounded every time you are lucky enough to see a peak alive with the alpenglow of a mountain evening. Mountains are truly the cathedrals of the soul...I NEVER get tired of looking at them. If i ever do, then it's time to move away...for I would no longer believe in their sanctity. I hope that never happens.

Stubborness has nothing to do with it. I just like the board...it does everything I need it to do, including park and pipe and it does it with grace. I've tried the super hyped-up Salomon W4...didn't like it, so I don't ride it. Tried the Canyon, didn't like it as much, so I don't ride it. Tried the Option Supercharger...liked it a lot, so I'd LIKE to ride it. Never tried the Ride Yukon, so I would like to try it. There are a BUNCH of boards I would like to try, but so far haven't...so I don't ride them...yet. Rad Air Tanker I haven't tried, but by Rad Air's own admission, it is not in any way board suitable for park/pipe, nor really an all-mountain board...but more of a powder/backcountry/big mountain board. I have no problem with that, as I ride those conditions and like those conditions, but when I was comparing it with Option Supercharger, the Option has different characteristics that also make it a really nice pipe board, in that it is very quick to come around mid air...but is ALSO very sticky on steeps. Tanker, in contrast, seems a good board for powder/big mountain, but not necessarily for pipe. Donek is a company that I have just recently found out makes other boards than carve. They seem to make a great cross-over board that seems equally accepting of soft or hard boots. I also was just reading up on the the Donek Phoenix Wide 163...it seems like a great board to try. Good for park/pipe...good for all mountain...good for race (according to their website). The Donek Twin is a softer board more attuned strictly to freestyle. The reason I came to BOL in the first place is some guy in Virginia drove up to my land-rover, saw my AK plates...saw my FatBob on my rack, and started talking up Donek...and wrote the names Donek and BOL on a piece of scrap paper. After finding out just recently (like 40 minutes ago) about the Donek Phoenix Wide, I now know why he was hyping it as great AK board when I get back up there. I had thought Donek made only groomer boomers...guess I was totally wrong....so I would LOVE to try a Donek. The Incline seems cool too. Can't say I am in any way big on their narrow chop-tails, though. But the Incline, even though it's not a chop-tail, seems like it would it would be an interesting board to put some hardboots on, and switch back to softies that same day (or hour), back andc forth. Maybe even trying Fin's new adapter plate on, and start playing around with lift and cant. Not sure if the Phoenix would be attributable to that, and not the Twin...and certainly not the FatBob either. So the Incline would also be an interesting board to try out. So four boards I would LOVE to try out: Donek Phoenix Wide, Donek Incline and Jeremy Jone's new boards: the Jones Solution splitboard and the Jones Mountain Twin. For me it boils down to simplicity. I don't want to carry a bunch of boards to a mountain...I'm not a gearhead. I want a board I trust and know well. While the Fatbob is good all-mountain and in and back-country pow...I must admit that it's not great at big-mountain steep hard-crusty stuff! So much so that I prefer my scarpas and AT skis for that stuff. So I would LIKE to try either the Donek Phoenix or Incline in that regard. Or, on the opposite side of the coin, if the Jones Solution splitboard did EVERYTHING well, from skinning uphill to limited pipe/park to decent freeride to gnarly, icy steeps, then it would certainly become my new "Manga"...but I don't think ANY board could do all that unless it was made by the hand of God. As to the Land-Rover: While I cannot call the FatBob one of a short-list of the best boards ever made (just one that I like alot)...I CAN put the Series IIA Land Rover on the short-list as one of the best expedition vehicles ever designed...and would be backed up by a LOT of expert people in that regard. It has now been eclipsed by Defender and Unimog in terms of offroad prowess (but certainly not by much!), but it has NEVER been eclipsed in terms of longevity/durability and ruggedness. It's hand-built 'birmabrite' body never rusts, you can start it with a hand-crank when you leave your headlights on, it's FAR superior to a Wrangler, it's got the cool split windshield, it's extremely simple to work on, and it has TONS of character. It's always turning heads, always giving smiles and thumbs up, and people are always asking about it and if I want to sell it. It's super slow, but driving slowly allows me to enjoy ANY trip better. It makes even a trip to the corner store like an expedition, and it has the offroad "chops" to back up it's image...unlike names like GMC Yukon; Ford Expedition; ford Explorer, ETC ETC. I love it!! Nothing to do with stubborness! Are you "stubborn" if you stick with your wife??? BTW: The reason I said "Land Rover Series IIA" in one long sentence like that has nothing to do with pompousness, it's simply the fact that if I said just "Land Rover" most people WOULD equate to the rather pompous, fancy Range Rover or the slightly less pompous Discovery. If I said simply "Series IIA", most people wouldn't know if I was talking about an ATV or a lawnmower or a bike, that's all. Back to the original post:BlueB, when I buy the other used fatbob (the used ones are more expensive than I'd thought!) and put the trucks on, I'll snap some pix. I'll look out for those trucks you'd mentioned. I'll look on eBay for a used set. Tentatively, I am thinking of adding a 1/4 aluminum plate to the board bottom as a stiffener. It's 'fairly' easy to cut with a metal-blade jig saw. Thanks for your advice!!

Like I'd said, Bob, I think board fit is largely one of personal preference...once a grouping of boards is deemed of fairly equal size, useage, workmanship and quality. While I haven't tried the Never Summer; Nitro, Tanker nor Donek wides, I HAVE tried the Burton Canyon (over-rated, plus it has that annoying proprietary Burton binding hole design); K2 Eldorado (not a bad board, but I like the fatbob better in the crud, and the fact that Eldorado is quite a bit narrower precludes it from proper comparison) and the Ride Mountain (also over-rated and almost boring). I don't think Fatbob is the board of all boards (I don't think any such board EXISTS)...just a board I personally prefer and have grown to like a lot. Personally, I think the Option Supercharger trumps any board you'd mentioned and is a superior board to Fatbob, but that is a personal opinion. Your blanket statement that "FatBobs suck as far as wide boards go" is equally as personal an opinion. I have noticed on K2's newest website no mention of the FatBob for this year, and so looks out of production again. K2 now makes no board in that widest width (325mm tip). That's the third time it's gone out of production, I think.

well, part of the deal is that I can make no modifications to the board, and that I must be able to ride same board the next season on snow...so that means no cut-outs. I know how to skate, but I am certainly no longboarding expert. I'm very quick when it comes to bailing...I guess from skim-boarding, so I'm not worried. Can't see doing much sliding in a set-up like that. As to "Bob the Fatbob", I just like the board. Always have. I've been on quicker boards with more pop, like the Option Supercharger 163, but the Fatbob is actually a suprisingly good ride for such a wide board. It is 325mm at both ends and 275mm at the waist. It is fairly light for such a board (the newest Fatbobs are even lighter with new core material....yes, they have brought them back into production, just no longer made on Vashon Island, Wa), has suprisingly good pop for it's size; is quick turn to turn; and is well-built. It in no way has EVER felt like riding a door. And being nearly 17 years old, and after 14 years of hard-riding by myself...it still has tons of camber left...hasn't really flattened out that much art all. Look it up....it comes with totally great reviews. Have you ever tried one? If you've only tried the old ones...try a new 2010 one, they've been totally re-engineered. I've tried the Salomon W4, with all its internal bells and whistles (the fatbob has torsion forks TOO, BTW), and found it to be squirrelly as hell. I don't really want a board that initiates it's OWN turns...lol. I thinks it's just a preference. It's like the 40 year old aluminum-bodied english Land Rover Series IIA that I drive...when I find something I like, I stick with it.

The K2 is a fairly stiff board (not ultra-stiff, but 'goodly' stiff for a freeride board), so I can probably go with a longer wheelbase...was just basing that on what felt right standing on two sets of wooden blocks. It didn't have too much hog, even at longer wheelbases...but I certainly wouldn't be able to get the wheelbase nor stiffness of a true longboard. Yes, the addition of riser-plates to get the wheels away from the board bottom will add even more lever-arm to the wheel trucks...but not much I can do about that. The only thing that scares me is not being able to get a good enough carve in to slow-down during the downhill portion...looks like I'm going to be doing a lot of bailing!! Nah...I'll have to carry out the dare...I've got lots of knee pads, elbow pads, etc!!!! Like Robert Service said in Cremation of Sam McGee: http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/2640/?letter=C&spage=26 "A pal's last need is a thing to need..."

Yeah...I was thinking about the flexibility issue. No mods also means that I wouldn't be able to attach an stiffening plate on the bottom of the board. So, using my own board resting on blocks of wood about the same footprint as trucks, I have been playing around with where to put the trucks to give enough stiffness. For the 162, I've noticed about 16-18 inches from each tip is about right. Can't do much about the width. That's why I'm thinking those wide long-board trucks. Won't be able determine over-leverage issues until I actually install the trucks. Already accepted the dare, so can't back out now. I don't really care about impending core-damage, as I won't be using my own fatbob.

I've taken one of those dares that usually arise after considerable ingestion of alcoholic beverage. No money involved, just ego. The Dare: Take my normal snowboard, in my case a wide K2 Fatbob 162, and without modification, put some wider longboard-like trucks on it and use it all summer long as a longboarder, and at least one medium-slope downhill. Okay...no problem SO FAR....pretty easy to do (except for the blasted downhill part!). But here's the catch: take the trucks back off next winter and go back to using it on the slopes. Because I don't want to kill my beloved K2 fatBob...it's innocent!! (I was originally thinking about using it, but while doing its post-season prep...I noticed it STILL has LOADS of camber!!), I am allowed to use a used FatBob of same approximate age (approximately seventeen years old now) that I have found for sale. Two things immediately come up: 1) Because no modifications are allowed and therefore no wheel cut-outs are allowed like on a normal longboard, I would probably need go with a truck-riser plate to increase the distance between the wheels and the snowboard bottom, so I would be able to at least do SOME carving. 2) How to make sure that the plugs of Ptex filling the holes made by the trucks DON'T just pop-out after the first few turns on snow. I have filled lots of gouges and canyons on a board, but NEVER a through-hole!!! I'm thinking of screwing in some sort of plastic threaded plug and then Ptexing on top of that, as normal. The base is Electra 4000 if I remember correctly. Any ideas?

I think it boils down to an issue of presumed culpability. I think due to lack of witnesses, such culpability on the part of the snowboarder would be hard to ethically prove. I DO agree with the decision to assign SOME culpability to the injured's father, as he was responsible to ensure that his child was in a safe area for his speed and size. I do not know if the boarder was in "Slow-Zone" or not, nor if he was riding 'out of control'. Without knowing those, it would be hard for me to comment on the boarder's culpability in this issue. Given the lack of witnesses, however, and the lack of any long-term injury to the skier, I think $30,000 is a bit high of a fine to levy. With that said, though, I think all skiers and riders at a resort must maintain some modicum of personal responsibility for their speed and/or actions. Heed the "Slow-skiing Zone" signs, especially if there are lots of kids about. I tend to ride very fast, but I take the "Skier's Code of Responsibility" seriously and DO ride both within my ability and in control. I must admit, that I haven't always heeded those "Slow Zone" signs, and I shudder to think what the results would be if I hit a 5-year old kid at speed in a "slow-Zone". If I was a ski-patroller or a judge in such a case, I would have to levy full culpability upon me and me alone...for high-speed skiing through a slow-zone can easily be seen as negligent, and just as deadly as driving a car too fast in a street crowded with pedestrians. (Note: I am not implying in any way, that the boarder in the article was high-speed skiing in a slow-zone.) I think about that alot now, and I DO tend to slow down when I enter those "Slow-Zones"...maybe not as much as some ski-patrollers would like, but enough, I think, to ensure I would be able to manuever away and avert a fatal collision. Sure, skiing/riding is a dangerous sport, and those partaking do give away some rights of safety, but any time there are small kids around on the trail, I give them WIDE margin, just as I would if driving a car in a neighborhood.