SunSurfer
-
Posts
2,432 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
62
Content Type
Blogs
Gallery
Downloads
Store
Events
Profiles
Forums
Posts posted by SunSurfer
-
-
Information on the strength of the various SS fasteners / axle rod etc can be found here.
a kilo Newton (kN) is approx. a 100kg (225lb) load.
SunSurfer
-
Homebuilt too many years ago from laminated marine plywood, Dynel sheathing cloth and epoxy. Trucks are 1977 vintage Trackers with Road Rider 4s. Deck grip is wet & dry sandpaper 60 grade available form your local hardware store.
SunSurfer
-
Thanks for that Sean.
I had wondered about how the plate would cope with the loads on the mounting bolts. I had been considering metal inserts in the plate to spread the loads at those points.
You have made a very cogent case for reinforcement and load spreading.
SunSurfer
-
I'm curious how you got a flat head screw going into the u-bolt though?
Countersunk head barrel nut courtesy of my local stainless steel fittings supplier site. The top of the rideable plate has had another layer of sheathing cloth and epoxy applied which went on after the countersink holes were drilled.
I figure the major load on the axle is compression as the G level rises in the turn. There the axle is squeezed between the plastic and the the grooved stainless clamp base.
The groove in the clamp base has been filed so that force is applied across the whole width of the base. As supplied, the groove is slightly lower in the middle compared with either end. If you tighten up the U-bolt too tight you can bend the axle unless you make this mod.
Front axle moves in its' slot in the event of a sudden decelleration, while the rear axle is compressed along the whole rear side of its' slot. The slots have been cut so that the axle is supported on all sides as much as possible. I could have used a semicircular tipped router bit instead of a square for the rear slot, but I'm not sure that that is actually necessary.
All that being said, the design principles could be fairly easily upsized by use of -
a thicker UHMWPE plastic block (current is 1cm)
a thicker axle
a different size clamp, and there are a wide range of sizes available.
stainless steel plate on the top of the plastic block to reduce the overall height of the base block.
As the title says, this thread is a "chronicle", and I continue to make adjustments and changes to the design, so that what you see here is a step or two behind the current state.
I get to actually ride this in early August. Although the snow is falling here and the ski season has begun, my day job prevents me getting up there just yet.
I have the rideable version mounted on my oldest carving board in my garage, and I am itching to get up there and try it!!
Just as before, I have no commercial interest in this design process.
This is an Open Source design and others are welcome to use it as they wish, and at their own risk.
I understand that Donek & Bomber are commercial entities, and that Sean and Fin make their living out of what they design, build, and most importantly sell.
There are also other people participating on the board who are working in this area, and making plate product for sale on a smaller scale.
SunSurfer
-
New insert pattern and rear unit shown below. Here the 5mm deep axle slot is also only 5mm wide. The front unit slot is 10mm wide. It could be made wider within the limits of the UHMWPE block but it is not necessary to have more than 5mm fore/aft slide movement.
SunSurfer
-
Pisst Plate have given us the low down on theirs. http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=308840&postcount=11
Donek - Sean Martin has kind of shown his in the video.
<object width="640" height="385">
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_M2k9PvFQk&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></object>
Bomber plate mechanism is still under a carbon "shroud".
How else can you do this?
<object width="480" height="385">
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD0PQZvBr2Q&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>
The photos below show the hinge/slide mechanism from my Mk 2 front unit.
The UHMWPE block has a 5mm deep, "dumbbell" shape, routered, cutout to accommodate the 5mm stainless steel axle, and the base units against which the U bolts are secured as they rotate with the axle. The axle part of the cutout is 10mm wide to allow for 5mm fore/aft movement.
There is a slot cut all the way through the plastic block, and at right angles to the axle axis, to take the U bolts. In the front unit this slot ensures the axle slides evenly forward and back.
In both front and rear units these slots, combined with the Nyloc nuts at either end of the axle, also help transfer lateral forces from plate to board.
The U bolts are threaded @ M6x1 and on the "U" part are 5mm thick.
There is a P-Tex sheet above and below the green plastic block. The metal plate above the block is currently 3mm aluminium, but could be made thinner by using stainless steel.
The axle and U bolts do not move in relation to each other. All moving parts are stainless steel on UHMWPE/P-Tex. Stainless steel moving on steel is prone to wear unless well lubricated.
The axle is solidly supported underneath along it's whole length apart from at the fore/aft slots.
The snowboard has had new inserts placed in the 12.9 x 3cm pattern of the UPM, but one side of the UPM rectangle has been aligned with the 4x4 pattern on the board for both front and rear units. The resulting distance between the outermost front and rear new inserts is 62cm, which is NOT consistent with the UPM pattern.
At the time I put the new inserts in I knew the 12.9 x 3cm dimensions but not the fore/aft dimensions of the UPM.
SunSurfer
-
I've got shipping to Australia down to $65. That's only $25 more than shipping to a destination in the US. I have a stack of demos and prototypes I'm selling..........
Sean, that is a hell of a lot less than a number of people have been able to find by any other means. Recent quotes to board members via UPS (192 Tanker in the For Sale section) have been of the order of US$250+ which makes the shipping costs prohibitive.
Is the $65 method of shipping only open to you as a manufacturer, or is it a method that the average board member could use?
SunSurfer
-
Arrivederci Italia!
I love it, Slovakia wins 3:2, which puts Italy in last place in group F. The defending champs don't even advance, that is out right embarrassing:rolleyes:
Italy behind New Zealand, now that's embarrassing!!!
SunSurfer (& proud Kiwi!)
-
The problem of bad use of science, statistics, etc. in the media is very widespread. A great way to amuse yourself but also to open your eyes to how widespread the problem is, is to read Ben Goldacre's book "Bad Science".
or just go to
Like Dan, I'm also trained to critically evaluate research findings, in my case primarily medical research. "Bad Science" will help someone without that training spot much of the crap out there!
SunSurfer
-
and Dan, I can't understand how that stat isn't valid...?
Because we don't know what the overall rate of boarders taking lessons is, we cannot tell whether the group being injured are any different in their rate of instruction compared with riders overall.
SunSurfer
-
Approx 1.5 kg for combined weight for
- plate
- front & rear hinge slide hardware
- all mounting screws/bolts/nuts.
Mounts to Apex type pattern (roughly a 13 x 3 cm rectangle).
Required extra inserts into my oldest carving board.
Stronger / smoother slide than Mk I.
Based around four, modified, 316 stainless steel 6mm wire rope clamps as available from ships chandlers & rigging companies.
Having recently read many of the posts on gear failure on this board I'm pretty happy this will be up to the task.
This is what I was thinking about when I was wishing for a computer controlled router. Managed without it.
SunSurfer
PS: Not quite enough snow here yet, but not long to wait.
-
Thanks Mike,
I have just got hold of some pre-PTex'd inserts to modify the mounts on my 4x4 boards so the precise measurements are most helpful.
You're probably aware that I'm developing/making my own homebake plate(s) but also want to be able to fit commercial solutions in the future. Might still wait for some more info on whether agreement between Apex Composites and other players (cf. B Varsava's post about discussions taking place off board) has been able to be reached before I pick up my drill!
Alan
-
Options would include -
New: Look at the Coiler snowboards site - http://www.coiler.com/home.html
Bruce Varsava's VSR or All Mountain carving boards might the kind of thing you want.
You could really torment yourself by also looking at the
Prior http://www.priorsnowboards.com/
& Donek snowboard http://www.donek.com/
websites as well. It's all so tempting!
Recent advances in carving board design include decambered nose & tail, metal damping layers, & multiple sidecut radii. Read some of the board reviews to get a better idea of what I'm referring to.
You could also look at the growing amount of stuff about decoupling plates. Some posters believe that these make a significant difference in crud/bumps/chopped up snow but it would be fair to say that there's just not enough opinion out there to be sure, and the technology is still maturing.
A boardercross board might be easier to get hold of in Australia, and would probably handle everything you would throw at it.
e-bay Australia occasionally has boards come up.
SunSurfer
-
Hi,
Check out most of the other For sale threads. Pretty much anything that's going to sell needs to have good quality (not cell phone) photos of the board, its' base and camber.
You can either edit your original post, or, add the photos to a new post by scrolling down the Reply To Thread page and clicking the Manage Attachments button. Note the file size restrictions on the photos.
A number of BOLers are from the Southern Hemisphere. Me, I'm in New Zealand but I already have a slalom board to play on.
Welcome aboard, there's lots to read and it's a good bunch of carvers here.
SunSurfer
-
Does anyone have measured details of the insert spacing for the Hangl/Apex Composites plates?
From what I can see of the various photos posted on this site it appears that there is approx. 12cm between the centres of the Left & Right side inserts. Otherwise I'm just guessing.
SunSurfer
-
Hi Seb,
The idea was for you to edit post 336 where your e-mail address is still in the standard format.
SunSurfer
-
Hi Seb,
You may want to reformat your posted e-mail address in the style
username at hotmail dot com
Stops programmes that scan for e-mail addresses picking you up and drowning you in spam.
SunSurfer
-
Hi Seb,
I'm going to be in Wanaka at the same time the FIS Junior Champs are on. I'm assuming the PGS will be at Treble Cone? Cardrona & SnowPark aren't holding it, but Treble Cone doesn't have any info on its' website yet.
SunSurfer
-
The ideas flowing around in this thread, the Alpine Snowboard Plate Systems thread, and from some personal communication with Lowrider have led me to a new design.
The three features that will make the Mk.2 a distinct improvement on Mk.1 are -
1/ Ability to add lateral mounting inserts to my existing 4x2 & 4x4 pattern boards (You could even add them to a Burton or Hooger mount pattern board). I have 30 pre-Ptex'd multi-inserts ordered and on the way from the Worden site.
2/ Lateral inserts are mechanically so much better than the 4x4 that I will be reducing the amount of aluminium in the custom width hinges I build. I no longer need to try to build in the stiffness to hold down the outside edges of the hinge. This will reduce the weight substantially, and reduce the footprint.
3/ Lowrider's current design has the sliding motion required dealt with in the plate, rather than in the hinge unit as I had in Mk 1. For Mk.2 I have taken this idea and, I think, improved it by coming up with a way for the home builder to create an accurate sliding bearing in the plate, similar to the one used in the final Mk.1 hinge, but with all P-tex contact surfaces.
Time to close off this thread, Mk.2 photos and construction details will appear in the near future.
SunSurfer
-
I've been looking for reliable ways to fit new inserts to a 4x4 board to allow for lateral insert placement and possible retro fitting plate system to 4x4 board.
There appear to be at least 3 wholesale suppliers of pre-Ptex'd 7 & 9mm depth inserts, together with a specifically designed countersink drill to create the correct cavity to seat the inserts in.
There is a French site
http://www.worden.fr/boutique/index.php/Worden/118-ENTRETIENREPARATION/60-Vissage/730-1604SM9.html
that will sell the inserts alone, doesn't seem to have the countersink drill.
There are also some Russian and a Slovenian site I found that may sell you the inserts.
Finally in the thread "Chronicles of a home-made plate system"
I found the p-tex inserts at Joe Jones in Scarborough, Maine. Guy just gave me a couple. Said that hadn't used them in years. They used to use them retrofitting 4x4 insert patterns into older boards. I used one on a board I got that came from the factory missing an insert. A countersink I had in my shop worked just fine. The rest went just as described above. I've been using the board like that for a few seasons now without a hitch.So they are out there...just have to know where to look. ;)
The photo shows the kit that Snoli market, but they also have inserts and drill separately.
I can foresee a market for this stuff to allow the full range of plate systems to fit any 4x4 patterned alpine board.
Does anyone know of any other commercial supplier selling both inserts and/or countersink?
Is this the kind of thing that All Board Sports, Hardbooter, or Bomber might be interested in adding to their Accessories line?
SunSurfer
-
http://www.maislinger-snoli.com/nc/de/produkte/browse/1/select_category/25.html
Snoli make the stuff, and a few places in Europe seem to sell it.
Drill a pilot hole from the top. Drill the base using the countersink to create the socket that matches the profile of the pre-PTex'd plug (7 or 9mm depth), thin layer epoxy, drive the plug home into the board. Wait for epoxy to set and base grind your board.
Haven't yet found any place outside continental Europe that sells the plugs, countersink, or snowboard mounting kit.
SunSurfer
-
Thanks Tufty.
Your link explains this photo of Roland Fischnaller's base with a Karl type plate in use in an FIS race 2008-09 season (from the FIS Smugmug site).
SunSurfer
-
One thing I've been thinking about through this whole process is the possibility of adding new, lateral mounting inserts into one of my current boards.
I've looked for externally threaded inserts that might allow me to put some in without making holes in the P-Tex base. There are essentially none suitable available in NZ, and those listed on the Web seem extraordinarily expensive.
Putting new inserts in through the base clearly involves making a substantial hole in the base which you want to be able to soundly and smoothly repair.
I've searched the Web for info on home repairs for "core shots" and most of the fixes involve using part cured epoxy below the P-Tex patch. My concern about this is that very few adhesives actually stick well to polyethylene. Clearly whatever board makers use to stick the P-Tex on works well, and from what I can see from the "roll-yer-own" snowboard sites is that they use just straight marine epoxy to bond the boards together.
Is this actually correct? Can either of our resident board makers confirm that the epoxy used in construction is just a standard epoxy, OR does it have some special sauce to help the P-Tex stick?
Does anyone else have any experience in really successful core shot repair. I don't want to go down the path of making holes in my bases unless I KNOW I can fix it well.
SunSurfer
-
From the point of view of mounting a plate system, using a 4x4 mount would be nice for backward compatibility. However a lateral mount system, as shown on the photo of Matt Morison's Kessler, has a significant mechanical advantage in transmitting tilting forces to the board edge.
The insert mounting pattern for lateral plate mounting points should be identical for Apex and other plate designs, certainly in terms of distance between adjacent mounting points on the long axis of the board.
How to fit this to narrower boards could be an issue, as any hinge/slide interface design is likely to have a fixed width, and the more lateral the attachment points the greater the mechanical advantage. To produce a system able to deal with a range of board widths may require more expensive tooling up and make it more difficult to produce at a reasonable cost.
From the point of view of using the plate system Sean is developing on a range of boards with a range of stance distances the answer is simple.
The hinge/slide interface between board and plate mounts wherever the inserts are on the snowboard. Anyone ordering a plate will have measured the distance between the inserts to be used on their snowboard.
Just as we have boards made in a range of sizes and shapes now, so the plate attached to that interface is customised for plate width & length, stance width, stance setback, plate stiffness and camber. Sean can make both custom snowboards and custom plates.
Sean, I like the way in which you have utilised the UHMWPE to create low friction but durable hinge and slide mechanisms. I was concerned about the wear characteristics of the apparently metal axle on metal frame & metal on carbonfibre/epoxy plate Apex design.
It was also nice to see directly shown in the video the mere millimetres of slide movement that need to be accommodated to allow quite substantial board flex.
I'll be thinking hard about the design concept you have come up with. Aaah, if only I had a computerised milling machine!
SunSurfer
For Sale: Tanker 192
in For Sale
Posted
Don't know if your original Australian buyer might be keen again if DHL can come close to matching the price they give Sean Martin (Donek) to ship his new boards to Australia.
SunSurfer