SunSurfer
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Posts posted by SunSurfer
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For all the irony, it shows how limited most hardbooters (self included) are in their conception of what can be done on alpine gear.
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Slalom skateboarding and hard boot snowboarding have only superficial similarities. The differences are significant.
Slalom skaters are attempting to both steer their board around the cones and pump the board to maintain, and/or increase, their speed.
I have yet to see convincing evidence of effective pumping of a snowboard. If someone knows of a video showing a snowboarder propelling themselves on flat ground by the forces generated by their body and arms while their feet are held in the bindings please post it.
Ice skaters, skiers skating their skis, slalom skateboarders pumping their board, and a sailboat sailing up wind all produce their forward motion with essentially the same forces in play.
A force is applied lateral to the direction of motion, a mechanism exists that restricts the resulting movement sideways, and because the direction of motion is not at right angles to the lateral force, forward motion is generated as the skate/ski/yacht also moves sideways.
With ice skaters and skiers it is the skate blade or edge of the ski that is pushed laterally but also acts to resist lateral movement. With a yacht the wind presses on the sails and the keel or centreboard resists lateral movement. On a skateboard the wheels grip while the bearings allow wheel rotation to allow forward movement. If the mechanism producing restriction of lateral movement is lost i.e. the skate or ski skids sideways, or the centreboard is pulled up, then the force maintaining forward motion is reduced or lost.
Two other issues are important.
1/ Friction forces must be less than the forward motion forces generated in order for any initial forward motion to be maintained or increased in speed.
2/ A balanced position must be maintained otherwise the rider will fall, or the yacht capsize.
On a skateboard, at low to medium speeds, all the rider has to do to steer and maintain lateral grip, is lean the board. The wheel material and the riders weight create the lateral grip and a steered, nonskidded, turn results.
On a snowboard just leaning is not enough. The edge must be precisely engaged in order for it to grip and lateral movement (a skidded turn with a wide track) prevented.
Expert slalom skateboarders will be using their upper limbs to both produce lateral force with the movement of their arms and upper body, and maintain their balance in response to the lateral forces being generated by their lower body. The more total lateral force they generate the faster they will go, within the limits of wheel adhesion to the road surface.
In the absence of evidence of effective pumping of a snowboard, snowboarders can only be balancing and distributing bodyweight with the use of their arms and hands in order to engage the edge of the board and produce a carved turn.
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Thanks Ryan, it makes not being there a little easier to bear. Looking forward to seeing your other videos from ATC 2016!I have quite a bit more footage from the event... so will be breaking it into smaller segments like this and releasing over time.
If anyone wants to fill in the names I'm blanking on (in the vid description), please do!
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No leashes to see in the Epic TV video. I have leashes on my surfboards. But having seen the video I can understand how the original image is almost certainly unaltered. Still puzzled by the green dashes.No, it's a Leash [remember those?] that's attached up front, but wrapped onto the rear leg...
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The green dashes leading to the front foot and the odd looking feet make me wonder if it's an unaltered image.Check the board
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Plan is to try to ride them all this winter. Driving (& interisland ferry) to Central Otago, based in Wanaka, planned for Aug 14th to 27th 2016 so can take them all. Happy to catch up with other NZ carvers, contact me initially via e-mail on Bomber.
L-R: Coiler NSR 180, Riot Supercarve 180, Coiler AM 177, Burton Factory Prime 173, Pale Spook 170, Rad-Air Pinkerman Extreme 169, Skwal USA 167, Oxygen Proton GS 164, Kessler slalom 162, Hot Blast 160, Burton PJ 163 asym (reg)
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Will be riding Central Otago fields from Sunday 14th August to Saturday August 27th 2016. Thursday 18th to Saturday 20th are set aside for other activities, but otherwise I plan to ride Cardrona, TC and Remarkables. I've found Coronet to be crowded and slushy the last few years when I've been down at this time of year so have no plans to ride there.
Will be driving down and bringing the full 11 board quiver down with me, and my collection of isocline plates. Planning to spend some time on them all as well as doing some experimentation with isocline plate axle distances and stance distance.
Nigel C is often down in Central at this time of year. We've ridden together before. Happy to meet up with other riders and maybe loan some of the boards. Will have TD3 Intec (Burton & 4x4 discs), F2 Race Intec, & SnowPro Race bail bindings with me, If you're going to be around contact me via the Bomber e-mail system so we can share contact details and arrange to meet up.
L-R: Coiler NSR 180, Riot Supercarve 180, Coiler AM 177, Burton Factory Prime 173, Pale Spook 170, Rad-Air Pinkerman Extreme 169, Skwal USA 167, Oxygen Proton GS 164, Kessler slalom 162, Hot Blast 160, Burton PJ 163 asym (reg)
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Kesslers bend too! Javelin @ Buttermilk, SES 2015.
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Look like bumpers to compensate for twist in the plate, able to be configured for either regular or goofy riders.
The real problem with going so low is impingement with the cambered centre of the board while retaining the torsion box construction in the middle of the plate.
Maybe plates need to get this kind of side profile. Flat part for bindings at either end, cambered in the middle to allow thickening for strength while allowing clearance for the board's camber.
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The greater the interaxle distance the greater the bending forces on the plate from the riders weight, and downweighting, when in use.
The counter to that is how strongly you believe in the value of being able to "pedal" (twist) the plate vs. the value of increasing the torsional stiffness of the snowboard between the axles.
I am in the maximise torsional stiffness camp.
I have a 4mm BBP to play with, but I'd love to play/modify with a 5mm BBP.
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Fixed interaxle distance, with the axles at the plate end is a feature of the Allflex plate as well.
If I dared to make cutouts in my BBP I could lower my design a further 3mm to 18mm plate height. I'm not going to go there!
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The Apex Composites X-Plate
http://www.apexsnowboard.com/x-plate.html
Cutouts in the carbonfibre plate allow the plate to sit between the axles, while minimal plate overhang beyond the axles prevents impingement. The mounts on the board apply the turning forces closer to the edges than the Bomber plate.
The metal in the hinge/hinge-slide mechanism is reduced to a minimum, compared to say the Bomber version.
They state the plate top is just 15mm above the board and total weight 1500g. UPM & 4x4 mounts available.
Axle diameter, whether solid/hollow, and bushings detail not available.
There is something runnning diagonally under the plate under each set of binding inserts, attached by the 4 bolts that have no obvious purpose in attaching the plate to the mechanicals underneath. Guessing this is some kind of torsion resistance / reinforcement, but in the absence of photos showing what's actually there. Does anyone know, have photos?
This is the way I would have loved to build an isocline plate. To my mind this design concept maximises the geometry to achieve isolation while minimising height.
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Just to lighten this up a little. An Aspen local gives his view of the effect of carvers on a ski slope during SES 2012. Neither of us knew the camera was running.
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Hi Pat,
The NSR is now a testbed for trying to work out if I can tell the difference as I play out the options around interaxle distance and whcih way round to mount an isocline plate. My modified 4mm BBP and the NSR are the constants.
My working hypotheses -
1/ Slide at the front gives a more solid underfoot feel, giving less sense of lag/delay/slop in response.
2/ The ball of the rider's front foot should be between the axles, or at farthest forward over the front axle. It should not be in front of the front axle.
2a: The ideal front foot weight point is over the front axle. This, plus stance width, and having the bindings evenly placed between the axles, leads to calculating the optimal interaxle distance for a given rider.
3/ Greater interaxle distance gives torsional/twisting resistance to a greater proportion of the effective edge. Question: Is the gain in torsional resistance worth moving the front axle further forward, and away from the ball of the front foot.
I have two weeks planned in Central Otago for mid August. As well as this stuff to work on, I'll be able to take the full collection of boards (12)/boots(Heads, Raichle 323, Dalbello Rampage) & bindings(Bomber/F2 Intec, Snowpro Race (std bails), to play around with 'cause I'm driving rather than flying down. I should be completely confused but blissed out by the end!
Alan
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A while ago Bruce Varsava made me a 180cm NSR with a set of extra front and rear plate mount inserts, each pair 4cm beyond the standard UPM pattern. I've finally got round to making up the concept I had in mind when I asked for them, an evolution of the my original isocline plate design that I've ridden for the last 4 years. The result takes a 4mm BBP and stretches out the interaxle distance, at rest position, to 74cm. The 4cm distance between the mounting screws allows the slide unit to have 1.4cm of travel. The stack height of the plate is 21.5mm at both axles. The axles are 8mm solid 304 stainless steeI, the bushings and plastic supports are UHMWPE, the aluminium extrusion around each axle is designed for making hinges and has an 8mm diameter pin socket. There is no impingement of plate on the mounts at even unrealistic amounts of board flex because the plate projects only 3mm beyond the line of the axle, at both ends, and sits 3mm above the axle frame. Nor does the design interfere with the camber of the board, although the bottom of the BBP clears the board surface by 3mm at the waist of the board.
I mount my isolation plates with the fixed axle at the front. I get to ride this in mid-August.
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When you get to Aspen, feed back on how you do. Plenty of us cheering from the sidelines. :)
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I'm 56 and a relative latecomer to carving. Not that long ago I was at the stage you are now, able to get down most places without falling too often but skidding at least part of pretty much every turn. The key to the next stage is learning what a carved edge feels like without having to worry about the fact you're now doing 80mph down a slope. I took my pride in hand and went back to a wide gentle green slope, and then rode it over and over again, concentrating on getting the board onto it's edge, applying a little weight to that edge and then letting the board do the rest.
How to apply the weight depends on mostly what your binding angles are. Angles greater than 60 degrees will work with the weight applied from the sides of your boots. Angles less than 50 degrees will work well with the weight applied through your heels and toes. In between, either might produce the result.
I ride 65 F and 60 rear. I learned that to keep the edge carving I had to concentrate on applying weight to the edge with the knee on the outside of the turn. Turning to the left, my right knee was the one. If I lifted off the lateral pressure being applied then the edge would begin to skid.
At a Pureboarding clinic I learned that for the lower angles I should apply the weight with my rear foot toes on toeside turns, and with my front heel on heelside turns.
But the real key was practice, practice, practice, on a slope where I could concentrate on technique and not have to worry too much about speed control.
Once you know what your edge really feels like you'll have a solid foundation on which to build your riding. -
I, probably like many others, read your post about a week at ATC and not making the progress you wanted to. What's the level you want to realistically reach? Fine line tracks on greens and blues, laid out extreme carves on blacks, or somewhere in between?
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Why hard booting? From my seat, wearing my 207cm GS skis (that tells you how long ago), on the Mt Hutt chairlift the guy carving short swing turns looked so sinuous, and smooth, and awesome! "That is the most graceful thing I've ever seen. I have got to learn to do that!"
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If Justin does that too often snowboarders will lose that 10% NASTAR handicap.;-)
But seriously now, I'd happily lose that handicap if it meant that US alpine boarding got the respect that brings sponsorship dollars to support a racing programme. It just needs someone like Putnam Investments to think that if Justin can do this out of his own pocket then what if .............
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Well, on Northern Hemisphere (European Alps) we usualy wear clothing/gloves witch contain so called No-Friction-Technology and no more clothing/gloves based on No-Technology-Friction as we had once on the past millenium!
What, you're no longer riding commando in rawhide lederhosen on those 110% slopes of sheet ice?
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Racers tend to be compressed when they cross the fall line. EC'ers are extended when they cross the fall line. That would be the technique part.
Sigi and the Extremecarving.com guys (Patrice and Jacques) all look smooth when they are carving turns. That is the style part.
By "cross the fall line" do you mean in the depth of the turn where the rider is going down the fall line, or, the transition from one turn to the next, where the rider is closest to traversing the slope.
My understanding is the EC riders extend during the turn and compress just prior to initiating the next turn.
Sigi, free carving in the video above, clearly unweights during transition by extending upwards.
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Any kind of touching the snow, even with my HDPE hand armour, noticeably slows me down and makes the steeper runs easier, and narrow steep runs possible. No touch demands tighter C turns to control your speed. Like you, I admire SGs fluid technique.
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Anyone had experience on Glissade's Big Gun series?
Thank you Russia
in The Lodge
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News item here tonight. NZ rural fire-fighters sending care packages to the fire-fighters they fought fires alongside in Alberta last year. In Australasia fire-fighters in both Aussie and NZ support each other every year during fire season. Don't buy into media beatups. Canada has friends worldwide.