RCrobar

Hey Jack, interesting discussion. I understand your reasoning, but I think the oversight you are making is that you are assuming nothing in the plate, binding, boot interface is able to move. Boot binding interface(s), from flexy F2's to Sidewinders to TD3 stepin's have a certain degree of controlled movement. IMHO this engineered flex will negate a need to change your stance in any big way. I have also read that both Donek and Apex worked to find the right balance between stiffness and flexibility for their plate systems, implying to me that the plates are not 100% flat 100% of the time. I would further speculate that the plate allows a rider to go faster more often. This is turn will result in a wider stance that creates a wider stronger base of support to compensate for the increase in rider speed. Cheers Rob

I agree with a few of the previous comments, you can't take it with you and demo as many boards as you are able to. For a few reasons, you are in Switzerland, you have been riding softies with lower angles and you are middle age, I would suggest that you also check out a Swoard Extremecarver. Even if you never lay out one Eurocarve I would consider a Swoard as it is a very forgiving board when just carving around at what ever pace your body is up for. Check out this link as Swoard is doing a demo tour this winter, perhaps they will be in your area: http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7979 Hope this helps Cheers Rob

Hi Ladia I asked a similar question in 2004, check out this past thread for some very interesting information: http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3832&highlight=moguls Hope this helps. Rob

Hello Jcaple I don’t have any specific set up advise, just a bit of insight on the long and sometimes frustrating journey required to find the ‘sweet’ spot with regards to stance width, stance angles, forward lean on your BTS, system, how tight you set your toe bails, what tongues are used (hard or soft) in your boots, is the flexibility of your boots affected by the cold, the amount of splay between front and back foot, the bias or distance your heel and toe are from the boards’ edge … etc, etc, etc!!! I wish it was as simple as soft boots where you slap the bindings on the board and go, OK maybe that is not that easy, but it is way easier than setting up and Apline board. Oh, it doesn’t matter whether you EC, race carve, what ever, the process is a process that takes A LOT of time and effort! But it is worth the effort once you find your personal set up that makes the board feel like it is an extension of your body. Change one variable at a time and experiment. It is AMAZING how a cm here and a degree there and a softer spring there can make such a huge difference! Enjoy the experimenting, the harder the journey the more satisfying the rewards. Cheers Rob

Hello Everyone I too really believe that the SideWinder is a major break through for the alpine enthusiasts! I too have milled my TD2 cant disk as low as possible and want to use the a Sidewinder on the milled disks. Hehe, great to hear from you. I am hoping that our rising Canadian buck and a retro kit will get me in the game. I have access to a CNC machine and am a bit of a 'Rob Villa.' Do you see any problem with me milling clearance grooves in my TD2 cant disk. I realize the warranty is void, but hypothetically speaking, could this work? Excellent and really cool! It seems like it will be quite easy to mix, match and experiment with the E-Pads. I was sure the pin would have to be punched out; no I will not do this! Back Country Split Board Application? It seems to me that this also has the potential to be a huge bonus for back country split board users! Has the SideWinder been tested on a Voile plate yet? Can anyone comment on this? Fin? Thanks in advance Rob

Hi Fin The SideWinders look just excellent! Interesting how some of the bests ideas seem so simple ... after someone else has spent a billion hours working and thinking about it! Feels a bit like the old Emery Surf bindings from years ago have just been reborn with sound design, engineering and beautiful craftsmanship! Our small alpine world or riders is lucky to have Fin and his team working hard for all of us. Question - Is it possible for one of the Bomber staff to post an exploded view of the Sidewinder, it isn't clear to me how the E-Pads are changed. Enjoy your time off! Rob PS - It will be interesting to see if the SideWinder ends up on the podium in 2010?

Hello Check out the animations at the end of this thread on the EC site. This won't give all the answers, but it may get the ball rolling. IMHO Surf Style will have some degree of upper body rotation, as shown in the animations. http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5740&highlight=cern Cheers Rob

Hello Philw Would you say most riders/customers at Wiegele's, who are snowboarding, use hardboots or softboots? Cheers Rob

Hello Up until a few years ago my response would have been the same as all the previous posts, hardboots everywhere and all the time. My view has changed during the past few seasons, so I will respectfully play devils advocate for this post. For the record I have the better part of two decades riding plates in powder in Northern BC. When I read about guys riding powder I wonder is this means a few inches of snow or very deep bottomless stuff. In powder that is deep enough that you are truly floating and not hitting bottom, I personally prefer soft boots and a powder specific board with a more traditional flat softboot stance. For me the advantage gained with the mobility and fluid feeling of softboots, particularly laterally mobility, outweighs the 'power' factor that hardboots offer. The ability to trim the board out, tip to tail, when floating is one of the key advantages that softboots offer. The jury is still out for me in powder that generally has a firm bottom that can be pushed off of when riding. In these types of conditions I generally prefer hardboots and a flatter alpine-ish stance set-up. Being able to push off the bottom, for me, lends itself better to the power that hardboots offer. As your attorney, if I was going on a helli-trip to BC, I would recommend that you pack the softboot setup as well. Hope you have a great trip. Rob

Thanks Bordy I voted for #2. Get the upgrade kit out ASAP. The rest of the options with come with time. Cheers Rob

Hi Boardy I have not seen the Sidewinder, but if it does what people have been hinting (controllable lateral binding flex) at I think I will be one of the best plate binding developments in a very long time! I have not voted yet as I am confused by option #1. When you say Complete, do you mean: 1) completely new TD binding that includes the sidewinder 2) a sidewinder add on that can be bought in pieces and parts 3) a sidewinder add on that is bought as a complete unit. 4) I want to be able to add these things to BOTH my TD2's and my Catek OS2's :D I need more information to vote, but I am guessing that most people will want the option of buying only the parts that they want. Come on Fin, Boardy ... it is way past picture time. How about a CAD sketch Rob

Hi Jack I have read a few of your posts that have discussed EC and loose bails. With all due respect, the information you are providing in these posts is not correct. I base this claim only on my personal experience. A few seasons ago I to rode my bails very loose, I do not set them this way anymore. Now I clamp the bails down tightly. I found that it made no difference in breakage whether my bails were loose or tight on my bindings. Loose or tight bindings, I still move my boots and lower body as required in the rotation technique regardless of the bail tension. I am big enough that all I need to do was push my boots harder to get the same movement when the bindings were tight. It feels more restrictive, but you can move. As a result the bails eventually bend and break regardless of the bail tension. For me reading about all EC guys riding loose bindings is like you reading about asymmetrical boards. Cheers Rob

Hi Fin Since the TD3 Race/Sidewinder side to side flex system seems to be 'out of the bag' and talked about in several different threads. Do you think you could find it in your heart to post a picture for the average Joe who haven't seen the prototype yet? Christmas the Olympics are just around the corner, show some holiday spirit a bit early! Thanks either way. Rob

Hello Edtudo Thank you for sharing this Edtudo! For some time many members on this forum have discussed ways to promote and grow our sport of Alpine Snowboarding. IMHO the Swoard team deserves a lot of credit for doing just that, inspiring new comers and veterans alike. A person needs to be brave and thick skinned to put themselves out there, as the Swoard guys have done, with videos and a forum that leaves your ideas exposed for all to critique, criticize and debate. As time moves forward the Swoard videos continue to promote alpine, bringing new people to hard boots. I feel that we are lucky the Swoard guys decided to put their ideas out for all to see. Some of these newly inspired riders will end up becoming racers, other ECers, others perhaps both. Some of these riders will by a Prior, others a Coiler, a Virus, a Donek a Swoard or maybe one of each, regardless it is good for Alpine overall. Jacques and Patrice are modest and passionate guys that hold down day jobs and juggle the demands of a busy family. I sincerely hope they continue to have the time and energy to put out new movies and equipment that inspire others to do the same. Cheers Rob

A few years ago I had the pleasure of riding with Patrice, in Kelowna and Vernon, when he visited Canada. We stayed at my friends who live in Kelowna; during the chair lift rides, evenings visits and e-mails many alpine topics were discussed. One of the topics mentioned was the misconception that the Swoard movies are filmed on ‘Hero’ snow, this couldn’t be further from the truth. It was explained to me, first hand, that in all the Swoard movies, there were a lot of icy snow conditions; despite the fact that the camera isn’t able to convey whether the slopes are hard ice or soft snow. The example given to me was watching world cup ski races ride on a sheet of pure ice; when watching on TV it is very difficult to clearly see the snow conditions. The movie Stoked was made on some of the hardest snow conditions Jacques and Partice had seen on their slopes. Stoked was filmed between the middle to end of March, during this time they had received no new snow for a full two months! The snow conditions during the filming of Stoked were so hard and icy that the grooming machines were unable to flatten out the slopes, leaving them with a long wavy surface that was quite difficult to fully lay out a turn. I have to say was a pleasure to watch, in person, the edge hold when a skilled rider with great technique were combined with a well designed board with the correct flex.:D Cheers Rob

Jack Mentioned cost and how it can affect quality materials, which in turn would affect edge hold, hard to disagree with this. Tex1230 and Philfel mentioned how proper technique and a good rider affected edge hold, I couldn’t agree more; although what is proper technique could be debated until the second coming! Flex. No one directly mentioned how matching a boards’ flex to a riders’ body weight would affect edge hold. Dave* indirectly mentioned this when he discussed a Prior board that suited him perfectly: Dave* also indirectly discussed flex when he mentioned a Swoard that he felt was too soft for his taste. Ideally a guy could have multiple custom boards build by board builder of your choice, eventually arriving at the perfect flex for a riders weight, ability and taste. The fact that Swoard builds 12 variations of a single factory production board speak volumes on the importance of flex, rider weight and how it affects edge hold.

Hello Dave I found this post, by Nils of the Swoard team, to be very interesting; it address the question you asked in your last post. FYI, I found the information below at this link: http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6084 Hope this information helps. Rob

I don’t think it is possible to get an objective answer to this question, too many variables. I would say that many of the new alpine boards are excellent; you just need do decide what it is you are trying to do and be honest with yourself with regards to your riding ability. The Skwal and skiing information that you provided would lead me to believe you would prefer a narrower alpine board that would be ridden with a more static upper body technique and stance angles that are at the higher or steeper end of the spectrum. If yes, search this type of board out. The fact that you liked the Swoard movie(s) and that you ride a Rossi Undertaker might lead the reader to recommend a wider alpine board that is designed with the upper body rotation method involved; generally the stance angles are on the flatter end of the alpine scale. If yes, search this type of board out. Yes, in the past this was true; mostly this is over and done with. Don’t let the noise of a vocal few possibly steer you in the wrong purchasing direction, keep an open mind and find out what works best for you; regardless of the brand name on the top sheet. Hope the above comments help you with this search, ideally demo several boards if you are able to. Cheers Rob

Hey Surfinsmiley I can't give specific Pureboarding Style tips, but I would like to add a couple general thoughts that MAY help you with your heelside grab goal. When you watch Jacques and Patrices' EC style and the Pureboarding style at first glance they look both similar and quite different. If you take a closer look at the foundation or fundamentals of both the EC and Pureboarding 'style' you realize that they are both based on the Swiss rotation technique. The Swiss rotation technique's roots are surfing and skateboarding. I know from reading your profile and past posts that you are an accomplished surfer, of course this gives you an advantage if you desire either one of these 'styles.' OK, now lets looks at the Pureboarding grabbing heelside turn vs the EC fully stretched out and laid out heels side. The main difference in the two turns, when style is not evaluated, is the flexed or extended legs. To do the Pureboarding heel side turns you can't extend your legs, if you extend your legs you can't reach the board. Note: Go to the CERN site and watch the animations of the: rotation, flexion & extension and push-pull techniques. OK, my 2 cent tip. It is my feeling that the most underrated component of the rotation technique, when trying to lay out a turn, is the transition. I haven't seen Surfin' ride, but when watching video after video of guys ECing online I see that errors in the transition magnify errors when trying to layout an EC turn. The EC turn is blown at the point of the transition. So, maybe experiment and evaluate this part of your riding. For the record I really enjoy the Pureboarding gang, even though I prefer to layout turns in J&P EC style. If one of the Pureboarding members read this thread, I hope I haven't over simplied anything with regards to your style. If I have, I would love to hear your thoughts. Cheers Rob

Hi Scott I am curious what type of terrain and what type of turns you see yourself making or learning to make on your new almountain board; regardless of width or stance angles you arrive at. Check out the terrain and type of turns on the following SES YouTube video. The terrain and turns at the 1:48 and 2:24 mark of the video are how many see an almountain board being used. Is this how you see using your almountain board? Rob

Hehe, yes Jack we will bring you over to the Dark Side! Welcome to the EC club:) This is where the subjective debate begins regarding ECing. From my calculations it depends who is defining ECing and how ECing is defined. The armpit vs the hip drag on the backside/heel side turn is one of the main aesthetic differences between the surf (armpit) and race (hip) based technique. It is interesting to me how the race and surf techniques are in opposition, with regards to the timing and placement of the leg bend along with the use or absence of a rotation, but at the same time are very close first cousins with regards to carving in general. Who really cares how ECing is defined. Either way, both are fun and both beat a day at work!! Cheers Rob

This is a good question, one that I am interested in. I’ll preface this post with the fact that there are no facts to follow, only highly biased opinions. Here is a quick stab at an answer to your question. First: What hard boot technique works best for you? I don’t know your background. For a lack of a better way to describe the main two techniques I’ll call them a ‘race based technique’ and a ‘surf based technique.’ If you are not sure which is best for you, your past riding history MAY lead you to a preferred preference; ie- 1) you have a long time ski background, go for the race based technique. 2) You have a long surf or skate background; go for the surf-based technique. If you chose race based, read and follow Jack’s articles on the Bomber site. If you chose surf based, read the articles on the Extremecarving web site. FYI, I come from a long time vert-riding skateboard, half pipe background. For this reason I have been drawn into the rotation based, push-pull technique advocated by Switzerland (EC site) and other countries. I started boarding in 1984 and have been hard booting since 1989. Second: Don’t think of ECing as a different or separate technique. Think of ECing as the exact same technique (for the most part) with parts or aspects of the technique magnified or exaggerated. As soon as you think about reaching for the snow more than the actual carved turn, you will probably start making errors, as Jack said … don’t reach for the snow or bend at the waist. Here is a very simplified example to illustrate this point. Imagine a hypothetical slope that very gradually changes from a green, to a blue and finally black slope. Now imagine an expert rider doing perfectly carved turns that draw a full and complete “C” shaped carve. As the slope got steeper and steeper the rider would get closer and closer to the snow. Eventually the slope would get so steep that the rider would be touching the snow or … ECing. Third: Take the time to really work out the errors in the technique that you prefer. I have found that ECing REALLY magnifies errors in your technique. For the surf based technique this may mean a progression like: 1) Rotation technique 2) Add the flexion and extention of the legs 3) Mastered the advanced Push-Pull (the combination of 1&2) Even if you are not an expert, I wouldn’t hesitate to lay a few turns down each run. It is fun to do and helps a lot in the learning process. Finally, this topic has been the basis for some heated discussions here. I am NOT trying to start one. Don’t take this too seriously as I don’t. Cheers Rob

March 2002, pretty sure this is when the Extremecarving site was launched. Amazing to see how three guys, with families and day jobs, have influenced the small alpine snowboard world in such a positive manner. Even though ECing is not for everyone one of the nicest things to see is how the rivalry around EC, for most, has all but disappeared. The live and let live, ride and let ride positive attitude and general good vibe seems to jump out of the computer screen when looking at the fantastic pictures and videos! Seems only good things happen when your main motivation is passion.

Gentlemen Check out this video of Fin driving his Subaru to the Bomber headquarters, he is running a little late! Add to this that Michelle was having a bit of car trouble, so he had to swing by to pick her up. The Bomber industry engine modifications in Fin's Subie may explain the wait some of you may have experienced during the Christmas rush!;) http://video.kenblockracing.com/flash/small_player/preloader.swf?vendor_id=204&media_id=9183&bgcolor=FFFFFF&autoplay=0 Cheers Rob

The fact that the Swoard Team offers their EC board, built by the Nidecker Factory, in five (5) different flexes is a good indication of how important flex is: XS, S, M, H and XH. Coiler offers custom build ‘one off’ boards where flex is also matched to your weight further validates this. I agree with everything Philfel has posted in this thread, all characteristics are important but flex and torsional stiffness is key. Rob