Kent

You'll be hard pressed to take away my hardtail in Minnesota..but I did recently buy a full carbon tri bike. Was going to hit up Seven for Ti, but there was a lil rumor about their aero "fairing" rather than aero tubing. I was going to email you offline about that.....until I found a deal on carbon. Anyhoo, back to bindings. Yes, let's start the research! There's a Grand Prix in a few weeks at Breck. Expense the travel to Bomber. I'll meet you there and buy the beers. I'm sure Phil and Chuck would chime in their 2 cents as well. I added Fin to the official start list as a pre-season present..... Perhaps this is better suited in it's own thread, but here goes. I'd venture a guess that every guy racing USSA has, at least, tried riding either Catek, Rat Trap or Bombers at one point in time. When your race performance dictates whether you'll eat ramen noodles or Old Chicago Pizza (perhaps the van or the Super 8 for lodging) every second counts. Some guys ROCK on stiff bindings, some guys don't. But, there does not appear to be ANY consistency on podium finishes and stiff bindings. (unless Mort is racing and it took him a loooong time to give up those ski boots). It is interesting how cyclical the the changes have occurred.... In general, you hit the nail on the head....too much responsiveness limits absorption (Indy race car vs. off road pickup truck). Racing is a difference animal than freecarving. At the same time, snowboarding "should" be a foot sport....not a leg sport. (i.e. many people use stiff bindings to cheat for lack of balance). The issues with stiff bindings is less an issue on toe side turns versus heel side. (Toe side = more direct pressure through the boot tongue). It may sound crazy...but perhaps some sort of hinge mechanism that runs parallel underneath the foot. I guess what I'm saying is that although the board is symetrical, the bindings aren't. They offer totally different purposes on toe and heel turns.... I'm getting a bit off tangent, but I'd do backflips if Fin (or Jeff) came up with a possible solution. The best design I've seen was the Virus Deathlock which appears to be a Phoikka OEM. It's basically an vintage Emery Course on steroids...... On a side note....most racer don't need all the frills, bells & whistles. Toss in some canting/riser shims and we'll customize (not configure) to our situation. The less gadgets, the better. We don't need "on the hill" adjustment...just one more thing to go wrong in the starting gate.

And where might someone in the US purchase these? ;)

Bob, with all due respect.....there is a specific niche for flexier bindings amongst the sport's most elite riders. I'd really like to see this void filled by either Bomber or Catek.... Kent

Width? This one is going to be most important for your problem....

Need more information. Height Weight Boot model Binding model Stance Width Stance Angle Just by winging it...it seems that possibly your front boot has too much forward lean. Front boot should be in a neutral position...back foot has a lil forward lean.

Unfortunately...sizing varies by manufacturer. Also, my people need to downsize off their monda sizing. I wear US10 running shoes, Measure a Mondo 27R/27.5L, but wear 25.5 boots....

Doesn't matter what "size" the boot say.....the only way to determine if you're in the proper shell size is by doing a "shell fit". After you find the proper shell size, you can then augment the boot to accomodate your boots. Do a search for "shell fit".....

I am very serious. 100% of Thermoflex liners need an insole. Not 99.9% or 85.3%.....but rather 100%. I'm not going to get in a pissing contest about this. ThermoFlex was NEVER MEANT to serve as an insole. Anyone who fits a ThermoFlex w/o an insole is doing a dis-service. It is IMPOSSIBLE to fit a ThermoFlex liner as a custom insole. Not hard, not difficult....IMPOSSIBLE. As for side loads, the movements in snowboarding are vastly different and less technical than skiing. Therefore, there is room for error. ThermoFlex is generally not a good option for advanced intermediate and above skiers. So, a hand stitched liner or silicon injected liner offers MUCH better support than ThermoFlex. Back to boarding...ThermoFlex is a good option considering alternatives and application (softer boots, less technical movements). And yes...I totally agree. One MUST question the sale of generics from the same manufacturer of customs. I imagine it has something to do with increasing shareholder value. As mentioned, OTS insoles can work...but not as good as customs. As for your boot fitter, he's probably never offered you insoles b/c you never told him of a problem and/or told him of your performance goals/issues. That's a good move for a fitter, don't create problems that don't exist..... Beer is on me if you're out in Breck in Dec..... K

Two different purposes. It would be a good concept if it worked, but it doesn't. ThermoFlex was never meant to form to your foot, it was meant to form to everything but the bottom of your foot. The marketing and ads are misleading, aren't they? Although, the directions clearly state to mold the liners with your insole. The bones in your feet require different support than your lower leg. In addition, the walls of the boot are not load-bearing, but use side-bearing force. Your foot pronates, your leg doesn't. Nice post Lonerider. It depends what you're going after. If you're a weekend warrier who has a life outside hardbooting (which I hope you do), it sounds reasonable. If you want the best possible gear and set-up, perhaps you need to invest a little more. In your situation, I would have ditched the Bombers, gone with SnowPro or Phoikka and bought a FP. Then again, you won't have to worry about bindings again. Seriously folks...we need to take a step back. You get what you pay for. I'm not saying you can't have fun and rip on OEM or OTS insoles. But, I am saying that CUSTOM insoles will cure 75% of boot fitting problems and increase your performance (warmth, balance, pressure, edging, etc). Some people use mediocre equipment and that's fine as long as they are having fun. I don't work in a ski shop anymore, but still enjoy lending a hand whereever I can. I'm stepping down off my soapbox now and consider this case closed. However, I do really feel the need to write up an article on properly fitting boots/insoles for people who are truly concerned about performance. I'll put that on the pile I have now and start taking a few pix.....

Well...the best riders in the world DO ride with custom insoles...and always have. Come out to Breck in Dec and take a survey! It has nothing to do with debt, it's about customization. Heck, if you have the materials and knowledge, do it yourself! Actually...here's some advise to save you $$$. If you EVER need to go to a Podiatrist, get a CUSTOM Superfeet (REI) and take that to a Dr. 80% of the time, they can make adjustments to the Superfeet beyond what they could build themself. Unfortunate, but true...custom Superfeet are better the product available for podatrists to use.

Scotchbrite pad...if you don't need any edge work (just removal).

I'd disagree. That $35 is almost 20% of nirvana.... No offense to you and Lonerider, but I'll hold out if Bola wants to clarify. It appears he runs a snowboard shop and I'll make a wild assumption doesn't offer custom insoles. This IS NOT a personal attack, but it's important to provide clarity. In the case of Thermoflex, it's a shame this came up. You MUST wear insoles with Thermoflex. 99% of the time, it should be a rigid custom. Don't believe me? Call any boot fitter that has over 10 years experience. (myself included) As mentioned....our freestyle counterparts don't need the same stability and support as us hardbooters. Then again, 75% of hardbooters are in boots too big, which robs of performance as well. What iexactly is "enough" and "make due"? Is having 15 PSI in your car tires "enough" to get you to work? Is not waxing your board "enough" to get you down the hill? Can you "make due" with ski boots or using Sorels? In the case of "over the counter" custom insoles, it's a BOOMING business the past few years. At the same time, the custom business is booming because they are repairing all the bad foot problems the over the counter are causing (try a google search) These insoles are generally "comfy" and do provide marginal benefit over OEM insoles, but ARE NOT high tech devices that should be used either for stability, support or fit related issues with HARD BOOTS. 1) Not fitted properly. Stpping on the carpet at home isn't rocket science. You DON'T KNOW how much your pronating or subinating in your to correct it. Over 25% of the bones in your body are in your foot and they must be aligned/support properly. 2) Flat. The bottoms are NOT flat. Seems easy enough, but (as mentioned) the "posting" on the bottom of the insole create the foundation. You could post the bottom of your home made insoles, but re read #1. As for cost, I hear your pain. But, if you are looking for the best performance and best fitting boots, $200 is chump change as they should last for years. You'll then be able to get that extra $$$ worth of performance in which you spent on getting a custom deck over a standard model.

100% bologna!!!!!! There is literally NO SITUATION in which a standard footbed provides the same or better performance as a custom insole...NONE. 100% of Thermoflex liners should be fitted with an insole, 100%.

Just another 2 cents.... "Athletic" insoles and rigid insoles (for hardshell ski/snowboard boots) serve two totally different purposes.... In a running shoe..the insole's function is to properly align the foot upon it's striking path.. In a hardshell boot, the goal is proper foundation, support and balance. There are other differences, but trying to make this simple.... You simply can not compare a $180 Surefoot insole to a $30 grocery store custom....it's not apples to apples.

You're welcome! Did you need more info? I'll try to answer both questions.... You NEED an insole that is customized to your foot AND provides adequate posting (on the bottom). W/o the proper posting, you're not gaining the support benefits....only the comfy benefits. In addition, your custom insole will be shaped for your specific boot. So...no swapping them in/out of different boots. In general, any "ski shop" that does custom insoles should be able to do a good job, but it's depends on the fitter, not always the machine. Superfeet (REI) customs are nice, Peterson's work very well, and Surefoot does a great job in most of their locations..... But, I want to make it clear...any home remedy isn't going to do the trick! K

Perhaps if you could answer a few questions above. I'm always in the market for a good SL board!

You need 1) Shorter straps 2) Move your buckles/rackets Go to a ski shop with a decent fitter and you're golden. Don't do the padding thing b/c it creates all sorts of other problems.... Also, start drinking whole milk! ;o)

What does the term "slowing down" mean? A 173-175 would be a decent GS stick for your Michigan hills. Anything over 180cm is overkill b/c you don't have the run-out to take advantage of speed. However, I'd steer you towards a shorter board! Don't give in to the BOL "longer is better" myth. Build up your SL skills and get a 158ish at your size....

Need to correct a few myths..... 1) Softer paraffin/hydrocarbon waxes (yellow) will penetrate the base better on newer boards than harder plastic waxes..especially if the board has been stone ground. 5-6 layers should do the trick and then you can upgrade to harder waxes. 2) If your iron is smoking, it's too hot 3) Once the wax stays molten on your base, there is NO REASON to continue to wax. Either hot scrape or let stand for an hour if it's your final scrape. 4) Your base should NEVER get hot to the touch. If so, you are causing a change to the internal bonding of the board and risk delamination. 5) Always bring your boards to room temp before waxing, otherwise...consult #4 6) As a general rule of thumb, if you're boarding on 100% man-made snow...wax as if the temps are 15 degrees colder.....as the harder wax stands up better to the brutal man-made stuff. K

Nope. On the back foot, it doesn't make much difference because the cant mec is always on the outside. (No reason to be in the backseat of your board) On the front foot, it's a no-no because as your weight shifts to 10:00 (if you're regular) you want quick response. The the cant mec loose, you'll end up way too far forward when you boot finally starts applying pressure. But....it depends upon your cant/lift as well. Many guys routed the cant on their ski boots to get more flex...but not really necessary with "snowboard" boots.....

No, no.... Are you taking the team to Breck Race for the Cup? Hope we could set some courses and train together as I'll be bringing a crew.....

Well.....I figure it's a combination of Chris being greedy (because he can/market will allow) and the fact that the boards ride nice..... The first snowboard I actually PAID for (got freebies for 12 years straight) was a "custom" WCR 161 w/extra glass two years ago. Quite simply, the best riding SL stick I'd ever ridden. A dream come true........ Everything I'd ever wanted in a slalom board. That was, until the tail delamned with their crappy aluminum protector. A cronic issue at the time. Called for warrany and got the run around....2-3 times. Had a local board builder (who worked for Chris) epoxy & bake it.....5-6 times as it kept coming back. It was so sad to see it keep delaming...... It really wanted/wants to be ridden! Urgggh.....now I'm all pissed off again. Why'd ya have to ask about Prior? Great boards, poor service. (If Chris wants to fix the board, I'd gladly pay for shipping) K

Time to chime in..... I think the fundamental issue people are trying to argue is "right v. wrong" which isn't really true. Stance width and Cant can be talked about in the same sentence (I just did), but are two totally different animals. In a perject world, they serve two different purposes. But, when people start monkeying with their set-up to extremes, one must be used to compensate for the other. Ex: too wide of a stance would warrant one to cant for comfort purposes. So, what effect does each have on the board? Why.....b/c I do all my rider analysis from the board up. If the board is reacting well, I don't care what is going on upstairs. Pretend you're a board. Width - Wider stance makes a board stiffer because there is less area on the ends of the board to flex. We can argue this point, but if you consider the board is not going to flex underneath the binding (I sure hope we can agree on that) there are 3 area where the board will flex....fore, aft and b/w the bindings. To that end, a narrow stance make a board softer. Go too wide and you're out of balance.....Go too narrow and you're out of balance. You need to find YOUR sweet spot. In addition, you can change your width to radically change the ride of the board. You might think a board sucks, when you simply aren't setting it up to get the best out of your riding. Cant - Too much of a good thing is bad, very bad. Cants in skiing serve an entirely different issue that in snowboarding. In skiing, it's all about alignment and having a flat ski. In snowboarding.....cant and be coupled with lift, which makes the issue even more difficult to swallow. For definition purposes, lift is toe-heal rise/drop and cant is lateral movement. Once a boot is put into a "0" location, then you must look at where it moves in order to pressure, steer, angulation and edge the board. The biggest factor in cant is your lower leg alignment. Typically, people who pronate/subinate have all sort of cuff alignment/insole insoles that make the issue even more complicated. So....you can now cant the boot or cant the binding! So, using the set-up and the best shredder on the hill isn't going to translate to a best set-up for you. It's just like buying golf clubs..... As our friend Phil mentions, a large factor is where the boot is applying leveraged pressure both weighted and unweighted. Some would argue that canting is bad because it limits the amount you can "pinch" the board for tighter turns. Other use cant simply because it's more comfortable. Now we have a similiar issue to the age-old question of forward lean. Which again, is personal preference..... Okay...it's hypocritical. There no common reason why people can't cant or do cant or might cant. Some do it for performance benefit based upon their own body issues....some do it to make them more comfy. Luckily, most bindings are adjustable enough to determine this for yourself. But, I'd always start canting FLAT and then make the necessary adjustments. Otherwise you're tyring to cure a problem which may not exist.

I agree.....do we want such a idiot in the Whitehouse?

Sorry Karl...had to post this. Although...I'm venturing a guess that more people will critique the form rather than admire your work. http://www.karlkoehle.com/ftp/snowboard/carve.html