Bordy Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Not much different then the idea behind the ICE system just a different cut patteren. A decade ago we all had the ICE groove cut into some Kildy shapes. Altough the shop with the cutting machine claimed it would be the best tune ever It only held up for about a week and there was no way to keep the edge tuned without going back to the shop. Funnt if you would have just let the "cat" out of the bag you would have gotten some more realistic responses. I would only let them "modify" the edge just under the toes and heels we found with the ICE cut that ir you cut from toe to toe through the middle of the board and heel to heel on the other edge it was hard to make the edge realese. Funny how a shop in CO has the ability to make a ski grab on ice but not shops on the east coast where it may make a difference. I would not go placing any bets on how bad ass you tune is going to be before you ride it... I hope it all works out. I know we cut several boards before we noticed a difference that we thought was better most of our first few attempts felt "different" at first but not better. Good luck and let the board know how it works on all the "spring ice" you come across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Alright. Thanks everyone for all the input.Alpine Base & Edge (Boulder - 15th between Arapahoe & Canyon) just acquired this machine that carves out sections of the ski edge. Hard to describe but the picture below will explain it. BTW, its called "Ultimate Grip". Peter, the owner of Alpine Base & Edge, has tried it on his skis and loves it. I'll most likely try it on one of my older decks to see how it feels on a snowboard. Right now I'm leaning towards cusp of A & B. and I was also thinking of offsetting it like a asymetric board. So this texture would be closer to the nose on toeside than on the heel side. Unfortunately, my season has ended prematurely due to injuries. I'll just have to wait...... :( If any of you are interested, go talk to Peter. Also, this guys probably does the best race tune in the front range. I'll put money on it. Transfering the ski idea to a board, assuming they did their homework, would be most effective B on toeside and C on heelside. The Assym rises from the ashes:biggthump Quick somebody get Jack's take:eplus2: Actually it sounds to me like a good idea. and it seems appropriate in the context of initiating extra bite at the area of heaviest load. I would like to hear the eng types view of a way to equalize the edge pressure on both sides of the board. By that I mean 1) the boots work like a skiboot on the toeside and the force generated is distibuted thru the binding to the toeside edge via binding pressure. 2) on the heelside the boot doesn't have near the same flex pattern of compression build up and all the force goes to the four hole pattern in the middle of the board. Asyms were an attempt to make that feeling go away. we now cover it by going stiffer and longer. How about working on a binding design that transfers force equally to the edges? The draw of the SKWAL is that edge pressure is the same. So much so that it feels much smoother. I suspect that a lot of the technique out there is simply the evolution of dealing with two different qualities of edge bite and pressure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEngineer Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Funny how a shop in CO has the ability to make a ski grab on ice but not shops on the east coast where it may make a difference. I think this was developed in Europe. I tried to google it and got this web site. http://www.ultimate-grip.de/front_content.php I would not go placing any bets on how bad ass you tune is going to be before you ride it... Actually, I was ready to bet on his regular race tune. I am by no means convinced that this (ultimate grip) would carve any better but am ready to give it a shot. Good luck and let the board know how it works on all the "spring ice" you come across. There's plenty of ice here too, you just have to be up early enough. It's nothing like the bullet proof stuff out on the east coast though. I learnt to snowboard on that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Am I missing something about "ultimate grip"? - if you're going to shape your edge like that, why not just do the whole edge tip to tail? Kind of like the guy that invented the "8 minute abs" workout - only to be one-upped by the "7 minute abs" workout. I'm coming out with the "6 minute abs" workout next month to put them all out of business. I'm very skeptical of the serrated edge being the right tool for the job. I would love to try it, but I'm skeptical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEngineer Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Am I missing something about "ultimate grip"? - if you're going to shape your edge like that, why not just do the whole edge tip to tail? Kind of like the guy that invented the "8 minute abs" workout - only to be one-upped by the "7 minute abs" workout. I'm coming out with the "6 minute abs" workout next month to put them all out of business. I'm very skeptical of the serrated edge being the right tool for the job. I would love to try it, but I'm skeptical. I think the concern is that if you did this all the way to the tail, it would make it very tricky to get out of a turn. Not sure though. With something like this, I think, its a matter of trying it out to see if it works for your riding style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Am I missing something about "ultimate grip"? - if you're going to shape your edge like that, why not just do the whole edge tip to tail? Kind of like the guy that invented the "8 minute abs" workout - only to be one-upped by the "7 minute abs" workout. I'm coming out with the "6 minute abs" workout next month to put them all out of business. I'm very skeptical of the serrated edge being the right tool for the job. I would love to try it, but I'm skeptical. physics my good man:eplus2: a little thing called friction. any serration is going to cause it and a lot will cause a lot of it. I think they are trying for the best of both worlds. the ABE thing is more of a scalloped look isn't it? one of the freestyle companies has a scalloped edge rather than the raw square cut outs we are discussing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Yeah, I'm very skeptical of the whole serrated thing. I understand the drag issues, I personally think that serrated would just be a big pain in the @ss. A serrated edge doesn't last as long as a polished smooth, hard, sharp edge - just like a good chef's knife. :D Maintenance would be a pain, too, the chance for inconsistency seems higher, unless someone else does it for you but what fun is that. But then I've never tried a board with that type of tune so I can't speak from ride experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 1) One of the ski shops in my area had (maybe still has) a machine that removes a little bit of material from the edge, on the inside of the edge - where the edge meets the base material. This basically creates -5 base bevel (wild guesstimate) for a super sharp edge. They only did this on a short section of the edge, roughly underneath the boot sole. And they left a very narrow section of the base of the edge intact, between the outside and the removed portion, so could still sharpen it some before the edge started to lift off the snow due to all the removed edge material. I never tried it, but it was supposed to provide better grip on ice without changing the handling of the ski very much otherwise. Neat idea. This was several years ago though and it apparently hasn't caught on... 2) Earlier in this thread I invited people to PM me. I just realized that I have this message board's email feature turned off. It's turned on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Come on guys.. I suck at multiple chioice! hmm so if you don't know guess C ! or is it B! damm... ummm,,,,, krap I'lll go with......................All of the above... A thru C... Did I get it right? I do get 10 points for signing my name! Right Said Shred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEngineer Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Come on guys..I suck at multiple chioice! hmm so if you don't know guess C ! or is it B! damm... ummm,,,,, krap I'lll go with......................All of the above... A thru C... Did I get it right? I do get 10 points for signing my name! Right Said Shred There is no correct answer. Just a matter of what works for your riding style. EDIT: Next season, I plan to try out different options and provide useful feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 I go with that.. I can't have one without the other.. I need the whole thing sharp.. tip to tail no detune.. Thats why I make my customs with flat tail and as little nose as possible..to get the most effective edge on it.. of course it won't work if all the other things don;t work..like the right flex pattern and decambering. But it is what ya like.. like I said what ones man junk is another mans treasure.. sound gay don't it.. Thats how I know your...... :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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