Owwww and doing my part

[skatha]

First off, as a proud mama, my 7 y/o was doing great with linking turns after lesson #2. He was a little teary and needed a lot of encouragement with lesson#1(I hung out close by on the bunny slope), but was ripping it with the next go 'round

Okay, my first experience in the 'boots was great. They are the most comfortable snowboarding boots I have ever owned and the control really brought out my limitations as a rider and with the board I was riding-which is okay because progression is part of the fun.

The lifties were all freaking about my boots-I was at a little resort close to our cabin. I didn't make it to WP because my son didn't want to follow my schedule for his lessons...

Of course, my bright blue Lemans were the most attractive boots there

Now the "owww" part....I initially brought out the Alp but my twice reconstructed knee with my malaligned rt foot does not like a steep angle. I was having pain where my mensicus used to be and, of course, I bailed back to my freestyle board with a shallower angle on the back leg. I had purchased the Raichle X-bone binding. Moving to a shallower angle with them-they are pretty bulky-caused a bunch of overhang on the Alp.

Is it possible to cheat a bit with the angles with a more compact binding?

Are the TD stepins more compact than the Raichles?

If not, any suggestions?

[Sinecure]

Did you try any cant/lift with the set up. Heel lift on my rear foot helps with my missing cartilage and ligaments.

[Dr D]

definitely try cant plates fore and aft they will also allow you to cheat the angles a little. the cants will take the pressure off of the knees significantly. the steeper the angle the more you will want a cant.

[skatha]

I think the Raichle's don't have a way to adjust the cant...that it, none I can see......

[kjl]

Is that your first time on hardboots?

If so, you likely have all sorts of habits and muscle memory that is making your back knee hurt more - my right knee is also my bad one - the torn PCL + MCL plus reconstruction, and I had all sorts of awful knee pain when I first tried hardboots that went away as I figured out how to ride. Most of it was related to skidded heel turns, which is probably what you are doing if it was your first time on hardboots.

A few examples:

1) counterrotating on heelsides (especially if you are trying to skid to a stop) is a habit that takes some time to get rid of, and is pretty painful on that back knee. I really concentrated, when sliding to a stop, on just facing completely sideways to the slope the same way a skier would and that probably got rid of 85% of my rear knee pain. I was getting lots of pain during other times while riding but it turns out it was mostly because my knee was already tweaked from this.

2) muscling the board around for heelside turns in flat angles is easy because you apply force in line with the direction all your muscles and joints go (like a forward kick). Muscling the board around in steep angles is hard and painful because it's all diagonal and you're usually counterrotating and your legs are probably straighter than you think, and in general is just really stressful on the knee. If you just put lots of weight on the front of the board and let the back end swing around gently without muscling it, it really makes that hurt less.

3) when I first switched to hardboots I was really tense because my ankle wasn't doing what I expected, which meant stiff, straight legs, and really tense, tight muscles, which also didn't help. When I got comfortable enough to, again on the heelsides, just keep the knees loose and the muscles relaxed and just stand there instead of firing every single stabilizer muscle as hard as it would go, that pretty much eliminated the rest of the knee pain.

Just my 2c, and ymmv of course, but you know that, being a doc and all. But I guess the, uh, major bullet point in my essay here is you might want to stick with the steep angles and see if you can get rid of the pain by getting rid of the inward twisting motion.

BTW, what angles are you running?

[skatha]

Thanks for your $0.02.....

I was at 45/45 to start.....and it was my first time in hardboots. I had been at 35/10 in my soft setup and, last year, broke my left ankle in them. I continued to ride and, obviously, couldn't do a toeside turn at all.....

I found out I broke my ankle 6 months later when I needed corrective surgery.

It still hurts to walk and I'm missing alot of ankle cartilage in my left ankle.

But I could do toeside turns in the hardboots

I skidded like crazy but didn't care.

The fact that my ankle isn't flexing is a plus for me at this point.

I do plan to clean up my technique with my next trip in April. Maybe by steepening the angles on the freestyle board....

Also the cant is likely the issue-I've got no medial compartment in my rt knee...

Actually, re-reading this...it doesn't sound like I should be on a board at all :D

[skatha]

Also, I'm pretty comfortable on the board-so no stiffness with the muscles. In fact, I was trying to concentrate on the hips and knees with my turns.

Arms behind the back when I was practicing/demonstrating turns for my son on the bunny hill during his lessons-see, I read....

[Dr D]

the raichle's may not have cant but you can buy a seperate cant plate. look for a burton universal cant or either a three or four hole plain cant that attaches to your board under the binding. you need at least one in the back

[skatha]

the raichle's may not have cant but you can buy a seperate cant plate. look for a burton universal cant or either a three or four hole plain cant that attaches to your board under the binding. you need at least one in the back

eBay here I come.....

[Chris Houghton]

Those plastic cant plates are not the best - go for some used Cateks if you really want adjustment. Then tweak away until you get it just right, unlimited range of cant and lift.

[skatha]

Those plastic cant plates are not the best - go for some used Cateks if you really want adjustment. Then tweak away until you get it just right, unlimited range of cant and lift.

I went to the Catek site and checked it out.....pretty sweet and I do love to tinker.....

[Jim]

Skatha

Cateks were my first choice to relieve ACL tear and torn meniscus pain. The variable cant/lift combination possibilities made carving pain-free. Cateks also allowed me to avoid messing with the cant in my boot cuff. Boot fitters are so ski oriented that they always want to adjust your boot cuffs for that perfect ski stance. You may want to stay away from the Intec stepin system to allow more flex between boots, bindings.

I've owned Burton, F2 Titanium and both Catek and TD2 in Intec/Standard models. So after 6 yrs I ride TD2 Standards with 0* lift/cant at 55/50. That is a long way from 60/55, 3*/6* lift and 0*/3*inward cant.

[NateW]

If you're happier at 35/10 than 45/45, the issue might have as much to do with the difference in "splay" (for lack of a better word) as more than the higher overall angles. Try 45/30, for example, or 60/45, or any other combination with 15 degrees difference.

I'm more comfortable with 5 degrees difference (more makes my rear knee hurt, less just feels weird). People vary though. It's easy to experiment with angles on the X-bone bindings, just keep that hex wrench in your pocket and change angles between runs.