alexeyga Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Sorry for rising the question one more time, just curious... From all the known cases of intec heels failure, were there any cases when the pins actually sheared? Or it's mostly the plastic desintegrating? I'm getting tired of standard bails and seriously thinking about step-ins... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 I've never had a single problem but If you want more flexible binding, you might like standard bail. I use Intec bindings for stiffer and narrower boards, and standard bail for wider boards with forgiving flex. I can't say much about problem since I never had one. I think there was a lot more snapped bails than Intec heel failure. IMHO, Intecs are less likely to fail since bails on standard bindings flex a lot more..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 I had a pin shear. They were used heels so who knows how old they were. I have Intec heels on my boots but I use both standard bails and step-ins. I don't really find the standards to be any more bother to clip in or out as long as the rear bail stays up. When the rear bail is a'floppin then ya, I curse them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexeyga Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 What I don't like about standard bails: 1)When gettin of the lift, I still have to find more or less flat spot and set one of the edges into the snow... 2)After clipping out, have to flip the front bail inside, or it has a tendency to dig-in to the snow, could be dangerous when getting of the lift... (happened with my g/f)... Consequently before stepping in on top of a hill, I have to flip it out... My Stealth and Snowpros do it, Burtons are a bit tighter, therefore not as bad... 3)Catching the heel bail isn't always easy... but it has to do with #1 mostly... P.S. yeah, i'm lazy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paappraiser Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Im lazy to 1)When gettin of the lift, I still have to find more or less flat spot and set one of the edges into the snow... I just dig the tail of the board into the snow slightly pointing uphill. It wont move anymore 2)After clipping out, have to flip the front bail inside, or it has a tendency to dig-in to the snow, could be dangerous when getting of the lift... (happened with my g/f)... Consequently before stepping in on top of a hill, I have to flip it out... My Stealth and Snowpros do it, Burtons are a bit tighter, therefore not as bad... I Have had it happen also! 3)Catching the heel bail isn't always easy... but it has to do with #1 mostly... BUNGEE CORDS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexeyga Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Im lazy to3)Catching the heel bail isn't always easy... but it has to do with #1 mostly... BUNGEE CORDS!!! Nah, mine stays up-right, that isn't the issue.. Just that I find it a bit clumsy to point the hell down attempting to catch the bail esp if the board isn't stable... Imho nailing toe bail first is much more naturall... I'd have to try to be sure... B.t.w. I thought bails were spring loaded on TD-s....? Or springs are too weak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Sorry for rising the question one more time, just curious... From all the known cases of intec heels failure, were there any cases when the pins actually sheared? Or it's mostly the plastic desintegrating?I'm getting tired of standard bails and seriously thinking about step-ins... I'd have a hard time believing anyone or anything could shear a steel pin in a plastic housing. It just isn’t possible - the plastic would compress with the force which would be perpendicular to the pin centerline, even in double shear it would be almost impossible. ( To be sure we use apples and apples here - shear is where the pin would be cut in half - just like you were to use a hacksaw ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexeyga Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 I'd have a hard time believing anyone or anything could shear a steel pin in a plastic housing. It just isn’t possible - the plastic would compress with the force which would be perpendicular to the pin centerline, even in double shear it would be almost impossible. ( To be sure we use apples and apples here - shear is where the pin would be cut in half - just like you were to use a hacksaw ) Taking Skategoat's example anything is possible over time or as a result of fatigue, manufacturing or material's defect... Keep in mind that these pins are subjected to cyclic loading and steel can only take that many cycles before it gives-up... I really hope that these heels were engineered with the safety factor more than 2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Taking Skategoat's example anything is possible over time or as a result of fatigue, manufacturing or material's defect... Keep in mind that these pins are subjected to cyclic loading and steel can only take that many cycles before it gives-up... I really hope that these heels were engineered with the safety factor more than 2... I'll pay $50 bounty to the first person who can supply me a sheared Intec pin that sheared in the Intec Housing. That is to say it is broke in two pieces with a shear type fracture located somewhere in the gap between the plastic housing and the aluminum Heel piece from a TD1/2. In this system there would be no such thing as a cyclic loading the pin - the plastic is too soft to send any shear type fatigue to the pin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexeyga Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 In this system there would be no such thing as a cyclic loading the pin - the plastic is too soft to send any shear type fatigue to the pin Tell me, if it is not cyclic than what is it? Periodic? Once in a while loading? Imho repeated boot's movement vertical and twisting is in the plane perpendicular to pin's center line. Therefore (given rather tight clearances), it is not bending but pure and cyclic shear-type load. And now i'm having hard time believing that plastic which is tought enought to hold 2 tiny pins (and 180+/-lbs rider through 4 screws) is soft enought to absorb any loading of these pins. If it was the case we'd see a lot of pins ripped-out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Tell me, if it is not cyclic than what is it? Periodic? Once in a while loading?Imho repeated boot's movement vertical and twisting is in the plane perpendicular to pin's center line. Therefore (given rather tight clearances), it is not bending but pure and cyclic shear-type load. And now i'm having hard time believing that plastic which is tought enought to hold 2 tiny pins is soft enought to absorb any loading of these pins. If it was the case we'd see a lot of pins ripped-out... Call it anything -- the simple fact is the plastic will fail before you can shear the pin in half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexeyga Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Call it anything -- the simple fact is the plastic will fail before you can shear the pin in half. Short term - 99.99% plastic will fail first Long tearm - I believe scategoat.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Short term - 99.99% plastic will fail firstLong tearm - I believe scategoat.... Well -- does that mean we have a pin that has failed? Let me know who to send the $50 to once I get the pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexeyga Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Well -- does that mean we have a pin that has failed? Let me know who to send the $50 to once I get the pin. That's what I wanted to find out starting this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I sheared a pin as well. It happened on the very first day with that set of heels, so I assume it was just a random flaw in the metal. I looked for voids but didn't see any. In retrospect I wish I'd looked at it under a microscope. I sent it back to the retailer for a warranty exchange though so you get to keep that $50. This was a few years ago... I've forgotten the name of the retailer but I'm pretty sure I heard about them here... At the time their web site had white text on a black background, and they carried mostly softboot gear but had a small selection of alpine stuff. Sound familiar to anyone? I'd probably recognize the name if I heard it again. I think they were on the east coast. If the old board archive is still around, I am pretty sure there are some posts in there from me about this. Everyone said 'whoah, never even heard of that' so I stuck with Intec and haven't had another failure. I share Linus' opinion that Intec is the most reliable system. Even after the one pin broke, the other held my foot in. I didn't notice the problem til I came to a stop at the very end of the run, so I'm not sure what I was doing when it broke. Is the old board still around? And is it searchable? It happened on the day of an air contest I entered, and I posted a video of me sketching out and Maciek said something about me bouncing like a ball (which made me laugh). So a search on "maciek nate bounce ball" would probably turn up that thread, which would give you the date, and I'm sure I posted about the heel breakage within one or two days of that thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paappraiser Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 B.t.w. I thought bails were spring loaded on TD-s....? Or springs are too weak? Springs on the td1s get weak after a while. It was fixed on the td2 I just like my td1s. Ill probally sell them in a few years and get some td2s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 The middle photo shows you the failure point. See how the metal pin is imbedded in the plastic? It broke right there. That's not even a point that's exposed to the heel receiver so doesn't receive any direct force. I believe the pin actually flexes there a tiny bit as it slides in and out of the receiver. The more you flex it, the weaker it gets. One day, it just breaks. That's why I replace my heels every couple of seasons or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C5 Golfer Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 The middle photo shows you the failure point. See how the metal pin is imbedded in the plastic? It broke right there. That's not even a point that's exposed to the heel receiver so doesn't receive any direct force. I believe the pin actually flexes there a tiny bit as it slides in and out of the receiver. The more you flex it, the weaker it gets. One day, it just breaks. That's why I replace my heels every couple of seasons or so.] Did you read my post where the shear of the pin needs to be located?. (( "with a shear type fracture located somewhere in the gap between the plastic housing and the aluminum Heel piece from a TD1/2.")) What you are showing is not shear - your failure mode is totally different than the topic of shearing a pin. Your failure is either due to material defect at manufacture or fatigue due to flexing - either type is not a "shear" failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexeyga Posted February 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I'd have to agree with Golfer on this one, that wasn't a shear-type failure, on yours the attachement ear simply broke off... Imho, since these were used, you've had enough play in them to stress these points, so eventually it cracked and broke off... Sorry, bro, no 50$ for you... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Skategoat, great pics, thanks for posting those. I'm looking at a book that describes failures, the picture of the heel pin fracture looks like the book's example of a brittle fracture from stress cycles, instead of starting with a crack and propagating. Were the heel receivers TD1's and did they have a lot of wear? I have wondered if the TD1 and TD2 receivers might stress the pins sideways a little more than the F2 steel receiver because as the thick aluminum receivers wear, the hole for the pin might enlarge more at the near (inside) end than the far (outside) end, where the end of the pin is while riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Okay, no $50 but it still shows you that the pins are capable of breaking. I actually think they will all break like that given enough use. The receivers were TD1s and they were in good shape. I bought both the bindings and heels from someone on Bomber in '02. He said they were used by his lightweight wife and the heels showed minimal wear. When I looked at the pin material, I wasn't impressed. It looked like the stuff I used to call "pot metal" - the same sort of stuff you would use to make a die-cast model car. If you ever try to bend this stuff, you know it just snaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I have to agree with C5 on this one....alexeyga, If skategoat's heel didn't sheared off by your definition, then there is less likely that pins can shear. Also you said that in a long term, plastic will fail which doesn't really make sense since plastic will also have same stress point that metal pins have. Therefore, it's more likely that plastic will fail before metal pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexeyga Posted February 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I have to agree with C5 on this one....alexeyga, If skategoat's heel didn't sheared off by your definition, then there is less likely that pins can shear. Also you said that in a long term, plastic will fail which doesn't really make sense since plastic will also have same stress point that metal pins have. Therefore, it's more likely that plastic will fail before metal pins. I want to point tha that's what i've started this thread for, wanted to get some real-live data... However, plastic and metal do not react to stresses in the same way and again, in short term it will take a hell of force to shear these pins, so yes plastic will go banana before that... But in long term it is probably wize to change these heels every two or three seasons. These were probably engineered for a few millions cycles (assuming theoretical 400lbs rider) of loading before metal reaches it's endurance limit... anyways, all this b/s aside, i've ordered a set of these, so either i'll break them durring the first use due to manufacturing defects or I'll keep using them for the next 3 seasons... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Your failure is either due to material defect at manufacture or fatigue due to flexing - either type is not a "shear" failure. I guess I don't understand the term "shear" the same way you do... I claim no expertise in this domain though so that's no surprise. Anyhow, mine broke off flush with the side of the heel unit, where the cross-section is circular rather than the smaller rectanglular section where skategoat's broke. There were some small peaks and valleys above and below the level of the plastic, but it was pretty much flush. It had the same color and texture that you see in the photo of the part in skategoat's hand. "Pot metal" was my thought as well. And again, it broke on the first day, so "material defect at manufacture" is my theory as well. Flex and fatigue had to be negligible in my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexeyga Posted February 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Anyhow, mine broke off flush with the side of the heel unit, where the cross-section is circular rather than the smaller rectanglular section where skategoat's broke. There were some small peaks and valleys above and below the level of the plastic, but it was pretty much flush. It had the same color and texture that you see in the photo of the part in skategoat's hand. "Pot metal" was my thought as well. That's the "shear" me and Golfer were talking about and in your case, hands down, it looks like material's defect... I've read some of your older posts about bindings.. sounds disturbing... Nothing can be trusted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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