NMU Alpine Boarder Posted October 16, 2005 Report Share Posted October 16, 2005 Do you believe the competitive side of snowboarding (mainly racing, but the freestyle side too) would be in a different situation if the ISF was allowed to govern the sport. From what I have read on the ISF, it seems that they were more in touch with riders as compared to F.I.S. They seemed to be an organization "for snowboarders, by snowboarders". Personally, I got heavily involved in the sport just as the ISF was dying off, so I don't know that much about it..... Thoughts/comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted October 16, 2005 Report Share Posted October 16, 2005 Seems pretty clear to me that the riders overwhelmingly chose the FIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak_rider Posted October 16, 2005 Report Share Posted October 16, 2005 I wouldn't say the riders chose FIS, actually a lot of riders stopped competing when the change from IFS to FIS occured. I think things would be better with a spereate organization because we wouldn't be the red-headed stepchild. As things stand now we have to compete with skiing for FIS. Let's face it, it's not something we can win. Look at the amount of skiing programs out there. What mountain in the US doesn;t have a ski race program? In contrast, how many have snowboard race programs? If the FIS decided to drop snowboarding there would be a lot more people(skiers) who would not argue it than people who would argue it (boarders). Ski racing is a lot more popular than snowboard racing. While not all the blame can lie with the FIS, I believe a good amount can, it's obvious they spend a lot more time on skiing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted October 16, 2005 Report Share Posted October 16, 2005 So if the ISF was so much better, why was it abandoned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ghostrider Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Ah Yes, snowboard governing body politics. Personally my favorite part of riding... A topic that could go on and on and on and on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak_rider Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 The IFS went under because it lost funding. Not many companies wanted to be associated with the organization after it lost control to the FIS. I'm not entirely sure how the FIS came into running both skiing and snowboarding, but I believe the general concept was that the FIS was bigger than the IFS, thus making it better able to run large comps and keeping track of points-atleast in the eyes of the powers that be. I don't know, I think it just shows that skiers run things, even though they have no clue what they're running, bu this is evident in many aspects of snowboarding. Almost every country's instructor organizations are run by skiers, except Canada :D . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 I think it had something to do, when snowboarding became an olympic discipline. Every snowboarder, who wanted to compete, had to be associated with the FIS and not the ISF. - Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nic Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 IF you wanted to go to the olympics you had to be a part of FIS. The biggest reason why ISF wend under was motorola droped them. ISF was the SHI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeW Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 got a rare gotcha ISF judge jacket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 The feeder program into the ISF really sucked (USASA here in the US). Unfortunatly USSA is dropping the ball in recent years as far as development programs go. Who knows what the future holds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timinor Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 It seems to me snowboard racing has lost interest on it's own account - not because of the governing body. At Mt. Bachelor, there is a junior snowboard team and racing is available to all the kids. They just aren't interested. All they want to do is the park, rails and big air. The Mt. Hood series of USASA will have no alpine events this year. I don't think it is because of some governing body conspiracy. It is because there is no interest. The kids want more Boarder Cross, Slope Style, Half Pipe and Big Air - not a GS or SL. Skiing is also loosing numbers in racing. A friend of mine is Mountain Manager at Mt. Bachelor. He told me last spring during the J1 J2 championships that the biggest problem the coaches had was going over to the park to drag their racers back over to the course for their runs. Just from listening to boarders in the lift line and on the chairlift, it seems to me the X-Games is the ultimate level of achievement now and not the Olympics. Snowboarding has it's roots as an anti-establishment, we don't like rules, I don't want to be like my parents sport. Racing takes rules, disapline, coaches and organization. Boarders want to make it up on their own. Go build a jump and make up their own moves. I love carving and racing. I love arcing a turn around a gate...but I realize that I am in the vast minority. If you go to the midwest or back east, you will see a lot of racing. It survives there because there are a lot of small areas and running a course makes a small, boring run become interesting. But in the west racing is really on the decline. You can look at Nastar. The west has very few areas left that run Nastar anymore. It's not a conspiracy. The ski areas dropped it because there was no interest...among boarders or skiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 For me it became too expensive to keep racing. The few times that I travelled away my home resort I would spend $35 to $50 on lifts, race fees another $30 to $50 ( or more), hotel $50 - $75 per night. Marginal mountain food $10 per lunch. Gas each way another $50 to $75 and thats on top of the USSA license fees split amongst the 3-4 races per season that I would get to go to. That would turn things into a $300 to $400 dollar weekend. Just couldn't do it anymore. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 There's many "reasons" for fall of ISF and the rise of FIS. The rise is quite simple...the IOC gave sanctioning rights to FIS (Nagano) pretty much before they ever ran a snowboard event. ISF was a "bro-bra" run organization who had no clue how to run a "world class" (by IOC standards) race. In many respects, they were right. The general problem was that ISF wasn't given much opportunity to earn the IOC business. Since all WC events at the time were ISF, it was obvious that the racers didn't want the change....although there were many racers (x-skiers) who embraced it. So, it order to qualify for Nagano, you needed FIS points.....many racers did both series. Then, the gauntlet came down whereas you needed to pick (couldn't race both). That's when more **** hit the fan and the ISF went belly up (bankrupt) I love ya Phil...but, IMO USASA was a great feeder for ISF, especially for the USA and World Team. Certainly MUCH better than what exists today (pretty much nothing). We (Minnesota Alt-Series) were running USASA comps back before the Mid-80s, which was pre-ISF. The criteria for youth development and feeders was clearly understood. At that time, we had 6 USA all-americans and 3-world team (ISF) members training on Gilboa. I got "pulled" over to coach the 1st USSA youth alpine national team (which was 2 kids via ISF). When ISF got word, they disappeared from all the rankings overnight. That was a drama filled year... So...FIS took over along with USSA in the USA. 10 years later and there is basically no youth development/feeder....unless you want to ride with Phil. There's plenty more to the story........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 USASA has no national points system, if you want to go to USASA "Natioinals" you MUST do a certain amount of events in A series. Sounds simple, but not so. I grew up in Western New York before they had a USASA series. I was forced to either go to events in Southern VT (about five hour drive) or events in the Mid-Atlantic (about five as well). The level of competition in VT was higher so I tried to go to as many events there that I could. Sometime the roads were too bad and my mom wouldn't let me drive to those events so I would head south to Pa to race. When I was sixteen I wasn't allowed to go to their nationials because I was lacking one event in the Southern VT series and one event in the Mid-Atlantic series. I think I finished on the podium at all the event I went to that year. Granted I didn't take the time to educate myself in the qualifying process and I didn't have a coach to let me know what I had to do, but that system sucks. You don't get the best riders in the nation, you get the best riders from that region. There is a difference. The system is still that way, although there are many more series in the US your chances of fiding on close to you is greater. This also means that the talent pool is watered down at Nationals. More series equals less competition at a regioinal level. And because the way the qualifying process is, it isn't benificial to take the time to travel to another series to do one or two events to test yourself against people in other regions. They need a real points list and a way to qualify the best riders, wheather or not that rider competes in x number of events in his/hers series as long as they do x number events total. Come on how many seperate series are in the Tahoe area now. One series dosen't even require their riders to hike the proper side of the gate if they DQ and want to continue. Their system dosen't work on a National level. And for a feeder program into ISF, there wasn't any. Since there wasn't any national level points when you did an ISF event you started at the end of the feild. Where as USSA and FIS at the time started all the riders with FIS points first, then riders with USSA points, then the no point riders. This makes a big differance if you are makeing the transition into higher level competition. Unfortunatly USSA has stoped doing this. Sorry about the rant, I hope you can follow what I'm trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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