Bordy Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 O-kay so we got our stuff together and posted the Video Phil and I shot in a day at PC in very soft spring conditions. You may rember the thread that motivated us to shoot video if not here is a reminder,BOL thread Any feedback at the Hardboooter site would be great! We have a link on all our articles to forum discusions. Hardbooter video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Fun video with some great riding. I like the general point that people are way too into thinking the gear will do the riding for them. I missed all that talk about what can and/or cannot be used for EC-riding and so the first half of the video kind of felt a little "emotional" to me. I think Phil's explanation in the later part of the film put a lot better perspective on things and I would have liked it a little bit earlier. Otherwise, you are like "why are these guys spending all this time measuring their gear?", the captions obviously help... but still you are a little unsure (unless you actively followed the debate the lead to this video I assume, which I wasnt't). Maybe I'm nickpicking... but when Bordy is riding that 16 cm 18.5m board... he doesn't really seem to be "fully carving" because he is going all most in a straight line when he's fully laid out... and only makes some noticeably carving entering and exiting the laid out position... in a bunch of cases (just what it looks like to me), the board looks like it is just kind of sliding sideways through the snow... bit it isn't flexed that much... would that mean that's most of his weight is on the ground instead of the board? Is that normal for EC-carving? I faintly recall from the extremecarving.com videos that when those guys were fully laid out... they were actually carving tighter than when they were entering and exiting the laid out positions.... maybe the 18.5m sidecut just makes it look weird. I'm not an expert at all. I really enjoyed the switch riding section as well... at first I was like "hey... I can do that and I wouldn't really call that carving switch" but it got dramatically better as it progressed, despite the multiple wipeouts (wiping-out lets you know that you are pushing yourself, if you're not wiping out... you aren't trying to push yourself enough)... that's definitely a level of ability I want to aspire to. Cool video... much better than the original one I saw back in the spring... but as I said... with the explanation earlier and a little less time showing people actually measuring stance setups would improve the flow and pacing of the video in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted July 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Thanks for the comments lonerider. 18.5 is a bit hard to layout in the soft march snow we had while shooting, it is very hard to bend such a stiff board such as the Secert Team in stuff so soft with out it wanting to track staight. good eye! also the soft snow creates so much drag........... Also I tried, although some what unsuccsesfully to point out was that we only took 2 runs on each board so some of the riding is for sure not on Par with fresh yummy firm cord. We are very excited about video at Hardbbooter right now and are hopeing to bring together some thing much more refined later on next season to showcase some of the rider talent in the area. But for now this is the best Phil and I could come up with reguardless of snow conditions, and as we tried to explain with out comparing one name brand or style to the other that allthough it may not be prestine you can still make any turn you want. Phil and I also had not ridden our Extreme skinny or Extreme old shapes in a long time and we really wanted to make linked layed out turns on gear that was as far from usable to Euro Carve as possible! We had to work hard to ride different gear then we are used too ( different boots bindings and cants also) and since I used every veiwable turn that was filmed that day in the video some are much better then others. We fully expect to have our riding torn apart here but sleep well knowing that we bring more game(like every one else) whenthe snow is yummy and we have more then a day to film, but for now we were just responding to a old thread with video that sat around while most of us at Hardbooter healed from surgerys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffh Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Thanks for the summer fix. I agree with your comments - it's the rider, not the board. I've had fun on every board I've ever been on and enjoy riding a variety of equipment; it’s simply a matter of adapting your style to the board’s characteristics. I definitely have my favorites but will never turn down the opportunity to ride something new. Until November….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonerider Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Originally posted by Bordy Thanks for the comments lonerider. 18.5 is a bit hard to layout in the soft march snow we had while shooting, it is very hard to bend such a stiff board such as the Secert Team in stuff so soft with out it wanting to track staight. good eye! also the soft snow creates so much drag........... Yea, that totally makes sense about the softer snow and the stiffer board. I know some of the EC-riders out here have trouble with soft snow... to the point that they dislike fresh powder. From what I understand, you basically picked about the hardest board to ride EC with and still did it to show that it could be done and people should be spending less time getting custom flex, custom sidecut, custom topsheet, etc (not that any of those things are not wonderful)... and more time just practicing and getting better as a counter-balancing viewpoint on the current trend of riders who look to new boards for "riding epiphanies." Good deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted July 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 We also rode the anti-EuroCarve intecs in those dreaded TD1s with 3 and 6 degree cants. TD1s that broke one of my first,and favorite custom shapes ever!! But since we may have borrowed a swoard from a friend who has a relationship with Bomber I am over it. So at some point you will see some swoard video from us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpinegirl Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 bordy, do you feel as though you don't drive as much with your knees when you are riding switch? i dunno, you seem to break at the waist and ride a bit more stiff in the lower body. however um, you haul. this is something i've felt in my own riding whenever i go switch and approach carving, with the obvious exception of speed cause i sorta got more work to do. but i find it to be a bit interesting because you are a high level rider, and when you were playing with switch riding your alignment was off just enough that your entire stance wasn't as strong as it could have been. i can't help but wonder why it's there and ask of the other folks on bomber if they've ever experienced this while carving switch. fun video to watch guys. i think what stood out the most was that you guys were having so much freakin fun riding. maybe i just really need to get back out and ride. what is it now, hurricane season? and what is this post other than evidence that i need to start sleeping more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted July 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Alpinegirl, It really depends on the day and the snow and the board. I am riding my race board and it has alot of taper, so when I ride it backwards it has a lot of flair and in that slush I was getting crushed its a lot like riding a Burton Fish switch plus your feet create mad drag at that angle in the slush since it can grab the whole back cuff. I think I went down like 4 times that day, and some times I'll go weeks with out a switch fall; I do fall at least once a day going foward though.. It really depends on trying to move you weight in the right place. My friend Dave Thimmel and I started riding PJ's switch when we were kids so a lot of it is pure feel now but on you heel side you really net to set you hip or the energy goes in the wrong direction from your hip.. Some time I find my self driving very hard with the knees when I really trust the snow and the board, Also if the board has a tail then its fully on! I am glad you notice Phil and I enjoying a day together. We or on the same hill all day but we rarely get to make turns together so riding with a old friend made the day that much better! Plus Phil makes me look good with all his solid camera work, were as when I film you can hardly tell we are even on the hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Some nice footage out there in the slush. Would love to ride like you guys in that slush. I even saw some linked turns, that must be kinda hard in these conditions. I will get me a bomberproof board soon (Coiler 180 RC II), because I am bored with doing EC-linking turns with my SWOARD ;) :) Greets, Hans. Keep up the good work at hardbooter.com and some more videos to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted July 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Very kind of you, We are going to try very hard to publish more video for the 05-06 year if this thread sees a good response it, will force us to buy a real camera. If not we will countinue on the path we'have started! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncermak Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 great video guys...you're making it tough for me to focus on work today. I am dying to spend another 20 minutes, watching more closely... Phil- Great to see you riding instead of carryiung armloads of gear doen the hill. Let me know when you make your eastern trip...maybe we can hook up this yyear. -Noah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Clearly just a show of smoke and mirrors! It's all just a bunch of camera tricks! You cannot EC unless you're on a Swoard! UNPOSSIBLE! I read that on the internet, it must be true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 My first thought after watching the video was that the focus was too narrow. Sure, you're trying to prove a point, which you did reasonably well, but it's the sort of point only a bunch of snowboarding trainspotters would care about. I'd prefer to see you guys ripping in your own style rather than settling a fairly obscure argument. But then I thought that the structure and style of the video is really promising. You could make a series of videos, each with an explicit test that you are going to perform (like the current video, where you test the theory that linked laid-out turns can't be done on early 90s equipment!). Speak directly to the camera to explain what you're attempting to test, then some footage of you doing it, then a brief wrap-up where you talk about how it went, what went wrong, and what went right. Kinda like the old rule for doing presentations: 1. Tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em. (Speak direct to camera) 2. Tell 'em. (Riding!) 3. Tell 'em what you told 'em. (Speak direct to camera) You guys live and breathe snowboarding so you should have lots of ideas for the subject of each video. They could be about any little (or big) snowboarding issue you've got something to say about (and can demonstrate by riding). They could be about technique issues, equipment issues, or anything snowboard-related at all. Maybe some controversial opinions, or some far-fetched theories that you can test on snow. They could be serious or wacky. You could even try and solicit ideas from people on this and other forums, i.e., get some community involvement. That's always a great way to increase interest in whatever you're doing. Well, it probably sounds like a lot of work, but it would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted July 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 ncermak, Phil and I should be traveling together next year so far the current schedule is linked below, please tell all your friends to come out, heck if people could bet on us PGS ans PSL it would be huge! Mirrior70, The video was on the internet also?????? Baka Dasai' This is our goal at hardbooter right now we are making as much gear available to people to ride and sharing our thoughts from a experanced Alpine Crews' perspective, so we can bring Alpine riding up to Par with current skiing and ski technology it’s just not fair that ski manufactures have crazy huge budgets to build with. North American builders like Sean and Chris and Bruce struggle to make the best product possible. All three make better product then almost all “full production” Factories, that is just Bunk! There are very few major companies that can match the ride these guys give us But since the publicity level for alpine riding has always been driven internally, we are trying to bring every one into the “now” by sharing what we do every day- love to ride lots of gear! We are confidante in our ability to bring the Alpine community our perspective on what is out there. We are lucky enough to have great relationships with almost all of the major alpine manufactures in North America and appreciate all the demos we have ridden. It would just be unfair if we did not try our best to share what we know with every one in the Alpine community. I learned the hard way that a team is only as good as it weakest link. And right now the hardbooting community needs to mature. If that means I have to personally work my butt off to force the consumer to step up to the 800 dollar cost of boots on par with ski boot cost and performance or >1000 dollor snowboards then so be it! Alpine is on its way to becoming a major force in snowboarding again, and it is our generation that will bring it into the same realm as Alpine skiing but it will be at a cost!. Fin-Michelle and the bomber crew (Brian) bust their butts to bring you all this action but are still a small business, That just blows. Jeff at Catek, Sean at Donek and Bruce at Coiler, Chris Prior; the crew At Madd and Exteremecarving.com same deal, these are the industry leaders! We need a push and if it means the crew and Hardbooter continues to sink their whole lives into the sport to force it to grow then so be it we are going to do it any way because we love it!! Fin stares at me cross eyed when I criticize his product. But I think he knows I am just sharing my opinion, because I want the best product out there and heck I am just the type of person to tell you. If I have to Shake every Riders hand and take a run with them to share the stoke we feel at hardbooter I will. For now we only have a web site and a passion, we want everyone to ride their best with the best gear possible. And now we can show people where we are coming from and let them really judge us and our reviews based on what the see, not by how they interpret text or assume the scenario. We are Alpine Dedicated since the days of high angled soft boots and into the future. Nuff said! Fis race schedule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpio Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 I just saw the video. Personally, I found it to be very enjoyable especially since its july and I'm sweating from the heat and humidity. The hardbooter crew took a lighthearted and fun approach to the issues being debated on this forum. I certainly don't think there's a need to be overly critical about their attempt. It's obviously not a scientific study and by no means perfect. I think they illustrated their point on a general level which we'll leave at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 B O R D Y ! YEEEEEEEEEEEEES, I LIKE I LIKE :D Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stoked Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 great riding in slush and fun video also I have nothing to add to Baka's feedback as far as I remember the clip includes a line like 'don't let anyone tell you you can't do it on an alpine board ... cause you can' and 'rail some turns' that's all nice as for further suggestions I think Cindy Kleh once collected wrong myths about alpine snowboarding for an article you know like alpine snowboarding is about racing or getting down the hill as fast as possible that the boots are uncomfortable that you need softboots and the LTR program to get into snowboarding and that you can't possibly leave the groomed slopes since everything is so unversatile even there and so on considering your style of presentation / narration I would be looking forward to a clip about a more general (alpine) snowboard topic like that too a short version of such a clip is what I think about sometimes for example one could show a text insert stating a negative myth and then an action shot follows that is not only eye candy in general but also shreds that myth to pieces anyway I think there would be plenty of fun ways to do a brief alpine snowboarding 'commercial' :) a lot of those ways would not even require a good camera or an actual eye candy action shot they could have some other 'script' that's fun okay does this only sound like fun to me or can anyone else imagine shooting a clip that is say less than 60 seconds and somehow promotes alpine snowboarding? can't imagine that it would not be fun to watch such clips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tilledog Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 Love the comments. We can't wait until winter to get some new footage. There will be plenty upon plenty. We just have to figure out a way to host gigs and gigs of data transfer without breaking our pocket book. Last we checked, there were 437 downloads and I'm sure more by now. That is 70mgs per and we have 25 gigs per month. We can surely up this amount with moolah but at some point, with many many vids up, it will be a bit spendy. We want to keep the resolution up along with maintaining around 30 fps. Mirroring our archives somewhere is one way we've spoken about. We're open for suggestions. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror70 Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 There are lots of cheap webhosts out there. I pay $5.83/mo for 4GB storage and 75GB/mo of transfer (plus lots of goodies beyond that). I'm willing to bet there are better deals out there, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stoked Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 I'll sign up for another webpackage regarding upcoming season at powweb they now offer 5/300 gigs sounds good to me http://www.powweb.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipstar Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 I enjoyed it.... but..... I need to see you guys ride in some better snow...there is some difference between the smoothness of your EC which looks to be not as refined as the guys on that other website, and it could be snow, equipment or your skill. Sure you can do it, but I say that, until I got to ride with some guys who could REALLY EC and the difference was a lot (and a lot more than you guys). That said, I don't like EC style much anyway, and so I much prefered the other riding you were doing anyway :_) which is more how I try to ride. If I want to watch EC I guess I can go the EC site; for the cross over cross under cross through stuff... what you did was awesome and first I have seen it so clearly. What would be great is to shoot the same types of turns on hero snow, on slop, on ice, on variable and on a race course, then compare what the changes are for each... like a technique clinic online. PPl would pay to download that (I would). Liked the soundtrack as well.... Look forward to the next edition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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