Edge sharpening

[Guest Aaron Morris]

I am a beginner carver, and I just got a burton UP 162. I am wondering If I need to sharpen the edges any? What tools will I need If I want to do it myself? Are there any places that have a good description of how to do it?

[Gtanner]

www.raceboarders.com

www.alpinecarving.com

These guys do a good HOW-TO tuning session that is clearly explained online. They will also tell you what kinds of tools are needed and what all the terminology means.

And YES do sharpen your edges (every 5-10 times and polish with a diamond stone every 2-4 times).

Good luck,

Gord

[D-Sub]

www.reliableracing.com

www.tognar.com

www.tools4boards.com

are all good places to get tools. the first two are more "pro"

oh, also...http://www.alpineskituning.com/ has some unique tools.

http://racewax.com/

theres another. I got some wax from this guy for good prices

[Chubz]

Aaron

I just went through ordering my own tuning gear for the first time and would be happy to provide input on what I choose with the help of some help I got from folks here. Drop me an email and I will give you what I got from Tognar. I found that the more research I did , the more my head hurt b/c there is so much out there.

Hope to hear from you.

Greg

gregory.troxell@zurichna.com

[D-Sub]

oh hell yes its confusing!

bottom line:

If you take your board to a REAL pro and get the side and base bevel done properly, you just need something to remove burrs and polish those edges. you dont want to remove material, just finish it.

so then all youd need is a gummi stone and or diamond file.

the base...just some wax and a scraper. get a wide one as its much easier

[D-Sub]

Bob

I hate to be feisty about this, but Mike isnt the only person on the planet that can do a 1st tune on a board beautifully.

I just got a Rossi from JoelP, and it came to me lookin better than any snowboard Ive ever seen. the structure in the base was dead perfect and the edges were amazing.

Joel told me who did it but I forgot. I still say that $130 is just flat too much to pay for a tune, especially for a recreational rider.

not arguing that a good 1st tune isnt a damn fine idea.

[bobdea]

what PTC does

simply amazing

its like $70 or so and worth every penny

Bob is right on about PTC that said there are other people that do a great tune

talk to some racers and stay away from anyplace that only sells snowboards(I hate to say that but its true)

and try to avoid belt grinds, the wide belts for boards can make your board "edge high"

[trailertrash]

d-sub,

when has bob said mike was the only one? bob said he highly recomends mike. if you recomend someone else, than post their info. until you have seen mike's work i dont think you can comment on it. i am sure bob has seen other tuner's work to compare mikes against. i highly recomend mike also, but if some else has seen mikes work and someones work closer to the original poster so they wouldnt have to ship it, use the local guy.

john

[D-Sub]

nobody every said he was the only one, but its the only name that ever comes up

$75 for the tune

$30 to get a board to him

$30 to get it back

$135 or so.

for a recreational rider?

when joel sees this he can remind me who it was that tunes his boards cuz he's damn good.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

D-Sub, You bought yet another board!!!!

Can I ride it !!! :) Sorry Dave, it had to be said!!

Great conditions this week!!!!

BS

[D-Sub]

another board? ya lost me...

the magical coiler is comin. I think next week?

oh...the rossi...that was actually before I got the prior from you:)

theyll both probably go away when the coiler comes. gonna be hard to part with that prior. might be impossible

anyway...I should clarify...Im not trying to be argumentative, but there are more than a few instances when "getting into carving" seems prohibitively expensive...almost elitist sometimes...so the suggestion to drop well over $100 on a tune might blow someones mind.

NOT saying PTC doesnt know their stuff, and Im NOT saying bob is wrong

[Guest dragon fly jones]

For a rec rider $135 is steep, I do not think that the tune would be lost on them, however, cost is always a factor.

As for good tuners there are pockets of them around the country including myself. You have to find them and work with them si that the tunes and work meet with what you want and the conditions where you are. There are always options and you should always explore them.

[D-Sub]

dont forget that the guy was asking if/how to do it himself, right?

most of us have gotten by this way for a long time...of course something like a PTC tune is gonna blow doors on a standard home bench tune, but at the same time, learning to do "good enough" or better is preferable to paying someone and learning nothing imo

[nils]

I'm not sure its that simple: aka home tuning vs pro tuning.

I strongly believe you can get the same job at home with the proper tools regarding edge work, expecially when the board is new (no burrs on base edges), that what any pro with wintersteiger ceramic tools can do, and sometimes even better "finish" because you have time at home the "pro" will lack sometimes.

When it comes to base work ( aka flatten) it is sure that only the pro can do the job, and the quality of the job can vary from the guy experience and some are magicians while some aren't.

What i'm skeptical is the importance of having a very flat base vs a almost flat base... I'm sure 99% of the riders cannot see the difference between both if the finish of the base is similar.

This is why i'm not sure of what the deal is for spending 130 $ for recreational riders that will never beat the clock but just freecarve...

Once you NEED to get the base done ( deep burrs, scratches ..) then its time to get it done by the best guys you can find..

My Swoard is three seasons old, and needs to see the machine now because i cannot get the edges polished on the base side anymore ( too many scratches on them). It will be the first time the board sees the shop, and i haven't notice the board beeing way slower than the others, or having a bad edge grip.

I'd recommend getting the good edge tools and some training (on old skis for example) to be able to do it everyday of ride ( diamond) and get the burrs solved when they occur ( with experience you can even repress the steel that turned on the side on the edge so it stays in and doesn't get cut by the file.

Nils

[Guest jschal01]

Tognar has a very good how-to section on their site. You can call for advice, too. Reliable Racing & other vendors mentioned are also great. Once edge angles are set, deburring and polishing with a gummi and diamond or arkansas tune are the main tasks, filing unnecessarily wears your edges down prematurely.

For your base, you can use a ruler to see if it's currently flat. Once flat, you can structure it or change structure yourself with sandpaper. Structuring once a season, at most, works fine for most recreational riders...your base will get faster the longer you go without structuring, as a new structure is "hairier," so long as you hot wax regularly.

Base scratches/gouges: if nothing's sticking up off the base & they're not deep, don't worry about them, you're not racing yet anyway. If ptex is sticking up or you have a narrow core shot, you can clean yourself and fill with a ptex candle a lot more cheaply than taking it to a shop.

There's been a lot posted before about detuning. IMO, detune, but don't go overboard, you can do more later, Bordy had a post last year I think that went in-depth on detuning.

Basically, even if you buy a waxing iron,wax, gummi, diamond stone, etc. all at once, you're not out more $ than two shop tunes, and in terms of time you can get the board fully tuned in the time it takes to drive to the shop & back once.

[JoelP]

This is a good thread because what it is showing is that there are otpions for a "Pro" tune but that you have to do some reasearch before you hand over to someone your prized baby.

This is a bad thread because there is so much to learn that a thread is truly a tough place to fully educate someone between a "Tune" a "Pro Tune" and "Maintenance".

It would be fantastic if at any of the "Expresion Sessions" there was a clinic being held. This may be even more important than a carving clinic or at least as important.

I am not that good at explaining things with written words about tuning and maintenance so I will not try to do any of that here. I am much better at hands on explaining. I had a shop here in Colorado and worked on World Cup Racers ski's out of Aspen for 16 years and never learned how to write the "How Too's". But now when asked this is what I tell people no matter where they are or where they are going if they need a tune.

1) Ask many people as many questions about who they go to for a tune. Then compare and usually then you'll find a common "Tuner" that is highly trusted in that area. If you can look at the work of that tuner before you go in to ask more questions, all the better.

2) Once you've decided who to go to, go there and actually "Talk" to the guy, find out what type of machine he'll be using. Good tuners that I've met are proud of their work and explain things and show you things, it's their livelyhood. Start to consider walking out if all they have is a belt sander and don't say much. But even if that is all they have it may work, find out if they go as far as 200+ grits on their belts for the finishes ( I just got a stock Prior board and that seems to be where it was at, not perfect for me but evidently sufficient for a lot of people). Start asking more questions if they have a Stone grinder. Some of those questions would be do you check flatness before you grind or do you just have a standard number of passes? Important because this helps tell you if your prized possesion is being handled as such or as just another board in the batch. I used to look at the flatness WITH the client before we even discused what would possibly happen next. Then ask at what stage do they check for flatness again? Then how are the side edges ground, with just a belt or the newer ceramic side edge grinders. Then lastly but VERY important do they hand file and or polish the edges afterward. The hand work is important and left out by many but it double checks all the machine work with the personal touch. Then waxing.... a lot of shops use a machine, some hand wax etc etc.

3) The above helps guide you in to meeting YOUR personal standards. Now you can decide about whether you are comfortable or not with this guy/gal. But remember you got there because you asked others that you trust and now what you are doing is finalizing your research and comfort level and letting the tuner become comfortable with you.

The above is important to me because hopefully you all, like myself, have much pride in our boards and want the best that we can have. But one thing to remember is that there is quite a variance in this "Cost" these good tuners around the country, they offer different levels and can buff you out like a World Cup racer or give you enough of a really good thing. Then with your own experience again by talking and asking question you can do great maintenance work which can carry you through 1, 2 or more seasons pending use and conditions.

So with all that hot air that I just spewed which doesn't help the original question, SORRY, maybe we can find people around the sessions that will do hands on explanations.

the shop in Aspen that does fantastic work is Boardwerks, They hold clinics during the year to help demystify what they do and what their clients can do. It would be awesome if they held a such a clinic during SES. I will suggest this to Finn but it may be to late.

Thanks for reading my crap, please don't tear me a new a@#$ole for all I mean is to help.

Joel

[D-Sub]

hey joel, did you get my message re: my coiler?

[Guest Aaron Morris]

Thanks everyone for thier help, because now I have a better idea of what I need to get started.

Thanks

[Guest skidoc]

Hi,

Maybe there are other guy's out there. Is it my fault they choose not to expose their abilities?

If there's any doubt about what I'm attempting to offer the carving board community, please feel free to check it out at the Expression Session. Bob Jenney is my contact out there.

You can see it, you can ride it. If you don't think it's a worthwhile investment to make once a year or every other year, or whatever, then that's okay.

I will be offering a summer refinish program with FREE return shipping. Ground UPS is far from what I would consider to be cost prohibitive. Combined with the lack of urgency to ride, might make it an easier decision to ship your stick. Details will be coming up on my website at www.precisiontuningcenter.com in March.

If anyone ever has any questions, please give me a call at 508 875 6905. When you actually talk to someone as opposed to speculation, it can really help you make a decision one way or the other.

My work is my livelihood, and the last thing I need to do is alienate potential clients. I'll never hold a gun to anyone's head, as its always been best to just put my money where my mouth is.

Proper ski and snowboard prep is hard work when done correctly. It's too bad it seems to be still so under valued, when there are only a few of us available to so many riders/skiers. I firmly believe in "you get what you pay for."

I hate to say it, but the ski/snowboard service industry is one of the biggest rip-offs out there. It provides insurmountable unknowing hurdles to customers and their abilities to not only enjoy themselves, but to actually get better at the sport.

A great on-snow experience made posiible through properly set up product is a major contributor to the support of the the snowsport industry, and PTC was created to try and fill that void.

RA RA SIS BOOM BA!

I hope everyone has a great Session.

Skidoc

[D-Sub]

for the record, Bob...I never said "why do you always recommend mike"

or did I? I certainly didnt mean to

anyway...I emailed PTC in private just so we're clear that Im not tryin to take anyone's business away

[Guest jschal01]

I'm sure PTC does a great job, and the riders named getting tunes from them are no doubt good enough to truly appreciate the difference from the base structuring and edge polishing they offer versus doing these things themselves. So, money well spent. And, for people with limited time and lots of discretionary cash, perhpas there's no need to go further, why not have the best regardless of indivdual skill level?

For a lot of people, though, I guess I'd make the point that if they had to decide between spending an extra $100 on a great tune, and $100 on a lesson, the lesson might be money better spent if they do a decent tune themselves. Kind of like the difference offered by running the right fluoro wax, or not, yes you can definitely tell the difference but, except in the grippiest of slush, it doesn't make the difference between a religious experience and a bad day.