RCrobar Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Hello Dave and I have heard the noses are prone to folding on them in crud and to agressive with loading it up, but everyone rides differently, so here is to hoping! I found this post, by Nils of the Swoard team, to be very interesting; it address the question you asked in your last post. FYI, I found the information below at this link: http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6084 Hope this information helps. Rob Hi all, We hope you are having a good summer. Lately we have had a few questions from customers new to the EC world, that wanted to have explainations about the history and generations of the boards... we also had questions regarding the core we are using, so here is a few answers: Board generations: Gen1: 3D made by Duret in France ( 2003-2005) Gen2: 2D made by Virus in Germany ( 2005-2007) Gen3: 2D second generation made for us by Nidecker in Switzerland ( 2007-2010...) The first generation of Swoards, directly copied from the custom prototypes Jacques and Patrice were riding at the time, was basically made with custom 3D shaped carbon fiber parts that were embeded inside the core at various positions. Each board had 3 different parts, that were jet cut at a Pilatus ( aeroplane manufacturer ) subcontractor factory for us: it was a very very efficient solution for torsion and flex distribution, but the cost of carbon itself was 125 euros in each board! The 3D was too expensive to build, making it too expensive to sale ( we did not believe you can justify building a board above 1000 euros, so we decided to change this). After Duret factory shut down, we went to see Virus and in order to simplify construction process in a remote factory, Jacques worked on various prototypes to simplify the way the torsion distribution would work, and found out what we call the 2D ( the carbon is no longer inside the core). The 2D then lost a bit of its very smooth distribution, but gained dampening in the process. After leaving Virus for Nidecker factory, we improved the 2D system and fine tuned it to the point where it has reached the performance of the 3D without the hassling of producing aerospace parts ( 3 different part on 9 models : 27 different carbon parts to produce, stock etc..). Now, contrary to the alpine almanach, there is no difference in riding between the 3D and the 2D. Precision is back, but we also gained smoothness and more dampening, making the 2D an easier performance ride. This is about the generation question: so No there is no more 3D, we are actually prototyping different options with titanal beeing among them ( for now titanal is very bad for EC because it locks torsion distribution...its good only on race or narrower boards in our EC opinion..) so in the future there could be a 3D again...but for now, we, our riders, everyone rides a 2D, and some people still ride their 3D with pride . Basically making a new 3D could increase performance, but at a more expensive production cost, so it would have to justify itself on the snow...which it has not done yet. As for cores: We are confident our products are still way ahead in terms of performance for EC ( we have yet so see other riders do the same on other brands), and we are also confident that our material choice is the best compromise for EC. It means we chose the actual core ( the same since the very first board generation ) for very precise reasons, not because of economical points. It means we have tested ash cores and other cores, and they are too heavy and stiff for our concept: We were among the first to introduce soft flex in performance alpine boards in 2002, and claimed it was important to have a soft flex with a high torsion resistance AND distribution. With a too stiff core as ash, you tend to loose the springy feel as well as torsion distribution ability . You also gain weight with ash (spruce is 30% lighter than ash) and this also one of the very big reasons of the choice, we try to keep ash where its absolutely needed ( inserts area). So ash and spruce is not a cheap solution, costing the same price as full ash almost ( 1st grade spruce is expensive).Its just the best core we have found for a good light EC board. As for strength, since some wonder if spruce boards can break more easily than ash or other woods: Gen1 3D: not a single broken board Gen2 2D: undisclosed number of broken boards ( same core) Gen3 2D: not a single broken board with same core ( and let me tell you we produce boards in hundreds of figures...), only one broken board after 5 min of use due to manufacturing defect, was replaced instantly almost for free. Simply said: it means there is no relation between core and strength if the data is right, it is more a building issue: how the manufacturing process is masterized and replicated that influences the strengh of a board, especially when you are working with thinner, softer flexes boards. This also explains why we went to see Nidecker: for the reliability and production eveness: every board of the same mold and flex has the same performance / strength as the next board: this is an important thing and lead to zero seasons breakage, even in the softer flex ! Last good news, we will try to reduce the price of the Extremecarver next season, having the cost of molds recouped by now: we feel its important to reduce what can be reduced ( we are also working to lower shipping costs which should be ready for september). This with the new board is a good summer news . N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtudo Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 The ones where they do this? . Yeah, just like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave* Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Maybe - but Dave kind of looks like a skinny guy compared to me. a) Could you tell that to the "kids" I work with b) I am built along the lines of a beer keg with legs LOL One thing that also needs to be addressed in relation to edge hold is flex patterns and SCR for different riding styles , body weights, and skill levels. This helps translate back to that nebulous term "feel", if it doesnt feel good you probably wont have the confidence to stick it in to get the edge hold you need. A classic case of this : BlueB and myself have swapped boards alot over previous seasons, there are a couple of his decks that he can make work very well (ie Virus ), a board I just couldnt wait to get off of, different strokes. BlueB's take on my Fatjack , Ahhhh hell he probably loved it, crazy guy loves anything that slides on snow... As to the Swoard and nose fold. We have one local guy who has a 3-4 year old Swoard, he has no issues with his riding style, I have given it the flex test and think I could ride it okay but would have to stay very centered or I would be paying for a very expensive broken board, ergo havent pushed for the test ride , I think it would break in front of my lead foot on the heel side edge like the rest of my broken board collection which numbers about 5 . ( If Swoard wants to send me a few for destruction testing I would be more than glad to assist) D* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 We have one local guy who has a 3-4 year old Swoard, he has no issues with his riding style, ... That guy test rode my Virus Vampire for few days last year and didn't want his Swoard any more. He ordered the Virus Scalpel 170. I couldn't convince him that WCRM can EC even better (at least for me) then Vampire... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtudo Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Any thoughts on the Virus X Treme Carver and Scalpel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transistor Rhythm Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Rode the Scalpel, a bit more skinny than a Swoard, but generally it's the same principle. Very good edge hold. But it was too soft for me, I couldn't "trust" the board because I had to stay dead centered or it would sometimes drastically change the radius. It was probably built for a lighter/shorter rider (I'm 188cm / 92kg / 28.5 mondo), or a much better one ;) The Xtreme Carver is even more like a swoard. I don't know about weight/length requirments though. This type of boards are a bit tricky to select because you want them soft but not too soft. Swoard offers different flexes and lengths, Virus can be custom built too. Virus makes a very wide range of boards and I don't know why a Vampire would compare to a Scalpel. If you like the Vampire over a Swoard buy a Vampire, not a Virus built Swoard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtudo Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 "We are confident our products are still way ahead in terms of performance for EC ( we have yet so see other riders do the same on other brands), and we are also confident that our material choice is the best compromise for EC" I ve been watching the Swoard guys on youtube over and over. It looks like I'm going to go with a Swoard for awhile. What the hell. I'm downloading lots of "Euro" music. Shiny Toy Guns almost has that sound. Next I go to Austrian Ski Hats .com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istvan Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 I have a Virus X-treme in titanal edition. I love it for EC. I rode a couple of other wide bodied boards and for me the Virus X-treme wins hands down. But I think you should also consider that on less steep slopes or on bumpy surfaces the wide boards are not that great fun. Yes, you can survive with it even under those conditions, but for me skinnier / longer boards work better there, they are much faster, responsive and radical. Maybe its just me, but I think a few will share my view on this. A few pics of the X-treme in action: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istvan Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 And some more: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 It is not so much about board than rider, but Swoard certainly rules for EC type riding: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtudo Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Great photos. The Virus quiver eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istvan Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Haha... Pokkis is a great rider, but also crazzzy for 1 or 2 brands.... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 I'm grazy perhaps but not to or of brands, my reference was just to rides on real life seen and in clip linked. As said, it is mainly bout rider, but for some reason best EC carves i've seen are made on Swoard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtudo Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Sorry Virus guy. I just placed my Swoard order... As they say here out west: " I'm your huckleberry! " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtudo Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Here's a picture of me. I'll be doing this on my new Swoard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow 15 Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Which Carving Boards Hold The Best Edge? Mine.:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtudo Posted October 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Istvan, I'm just kidding. I've got your bottom turn /cutback on my screen saver. I did go Swoard this time though. <HR width="30%"> Col. Gen. Alfred Jodl: In 15 minutes, we meet with the Fuhrer. He will want to know how you intend to deal with Patton's forces. Field Marshal Erwin Rommel: I will attack and annihilate him...! [long pause] Field Marshal Erwin Rommel: ...before he does the same to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave ESPI Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Here's a picture of me. I'll be doing this on my new Swoard I have a fondpersonal love for these sort of pics with the hand-drag line following arc in the snow... it always manages to confuse people who see these marks from the chairlift as to what exactly happened (if they didnt see a carver riding) and had been hovering over the " CLICK TO ORDER" enter-button for all of last season with an Extreme Carver in tit' chrome finish.... but I held off because I feared I would not get to enjoy it versus the price of such. It is indeed the toss up betwen that and the SWOARD as of now for my 2010 purchase, but I also want to drop a STI engine in a 02 subaru Forester with a 6 speed transmission..... Decisions Decisions Decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtudo Posted October 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 I went with the Swoard for one reason: The Swoard Opus videos on Youtube. The Virus riders on youtube looked stiff and jerky (of course I didn't get a real Virus overview) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 I have a fondpersonal love for these sort of pics with the hand-drag line following arc in the snow... it always manages to confuse people who see these marks from the chairlift as to what exactly happened (if they didnt see a carver riding) Here is the one with 4 tracks, from previous lap. Board, knee, leading hand, trailing hand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 It is indeed the toss up betwen that and the SWOARD as of now for my 2010 purchase, Dave, if you wish, I can put you in touch wiht local guy who switched to Scalpel. You can probably get his Swoard for relativelly cheap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtudo Posted October 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 How about my shadows and light whole body drag at high speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtudo Posted October 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Its time for American Yanks to take back the Carving Title from these Euros! We will gnaw on their skulls! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 How about my shadows and light whole body drag at high speed? Cool! The way you EC that skwal, you didn't need a snowboard... At least the EC snowboard... Now you uneed a nice swally or 2m Tanker, to do the same thing in the freshies. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edtudo Posted October 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Sorry ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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