Who wants to play armchair Doctor?

[DiveBomber]

arghhh what a way to end the year.

So, its almost 4 o'clock spent most of the day in the park practicing landing switch. Im just hiking the last of 3 jumps..didnt get as much air on the jump as i wanted and wasnt completely line up on the landing...

I landed with my rear leg fully extended/locked, and felt and excruciating pain in that knee. Instantly though I blew a ligament.

The pain subsided about 20-30 sec later. I could kinda stand/hobble. Still had to get a ski patrol ride down.

anyway so it doenst look like I blew any ligaments, and didnt get any swelling imediately. Iced it on the drive home. it doesnt really hurt just when not doing anything. and I dont get any sharp pain, when I do feel anything.

I only feel something if I twist my knee, or fully straighten it. But I can load it with out any pain.

has anyone else had this type of injury?

[pebu]

Armchair doctor? Is one of your armchairs sick?

[DiveBomber]

Armchair doctor? Is one of your armchairs sick?

not funny

[rhaskins]

I was able to walk off the mountain with my tibial plateau fracture. No one (urgent care, doctor appointment) wanted to x-ray it, everyone thought it was just "soft-tissue" injury. 3 months later it was doing the hurt so I went in to the Doc again, he sent me in for an MRI to look for the "soft tissue" damage and botta-bing, botta-bang, fracture. Then they did the x-ray. x-ray $40. MRI- $700. OUt of pocket expense. As you may get from my post, I was not impressed, nor was I impressed by the cost. I would have saved $660 by having an x-ray right away. I am still bitter about that ****e.

I'd go to the doc and get (insist on) an x-ray. It only hurt when I walked on it for extended time or twisted my knee joint. Sound familiar at all? If you have no fractures, you may have some of that "soft tissue" thingies. My 2 cents.

Rick

[DiveBomber]

I was able to walk off the mountain with my tibial plateau fracture. No one (urgent care, doctor appointment) wanted to x-ray it, everyone thought it was just "soft-tissue" injury. 3 months later it was doing the hurt so I went in to the Doc again, he sent me in for an MRI to look for the "soft tissue" damage and botta-bing, botta-bang, fracture. Then they did the x-ray. x-ray $40. MRI- $700. OUt of pocket expense. As you may get from my post, I was not impressed, nor was I impressed by the cost. I would have saved $660 by having an x-ray right away. I am still bitter about that ****e.

I'd go to the doc and get (insist on) an x-ray. It only hurt when I walked on it for extended time or twisted my knee joint. Sound familiar at all? If you have no fractures, you may have some of that "soft tissue" thingies. My 2 cents.

Rick

if I could get an x-ray for $40 id do it asap, though im sure thats doubtful!

however I dont think its a fracture(sure its possible, but this pain is definately in the joint)

actually its not so much the damage im worried about as the cure!

[rhaskins]

For me, my lower knee hurt. I could rest it for a while, and then go out for a hike or just mountain bike, and it would hurt like hell. I could walk on it just fine. My $40.00 X-ray with my health insurance was a co-pay of $20.00. X-ray is much cheaper than MRI. That was very expensive, and avoidable with a simple x-ray. I iced it, I heated it, I let it rest. With your description, I'd get the x-ray. It will help rule out bone issues if nothing else. That pain you felt was a definate signal of something. BTW, a tibial plateau fracture is a vertical fracture, so the bones are split but still in place. It scared the **** out of the doc when he called me up with the MRI results. he told me something like "don't jump, don't even walk hard. Get in here". The Doc was almost hyperventalating on the phone.

I just point this out in contrast with the original diagnosis from the same doc: probably just a little hyper-extended, go home, rest it and put some ice on it. Boy was he wrong.

Again, I walked around with the fracture for 3 months before they found it. Messed up my summer. Had to kayak a lot.

Now we are up to 4 cents. This internet doctoring is crazy expensive.

Rick

[DiveBomber]

yeah right now im looking around for MRI services and Insurance options.

I just hope I havent permanently damaged My meniscus or something.

[Hotbeans]

grade 2 tear of something or other. Won't hear any popping, not much, if any swelling. You will have instability and pain.

Find an orthopod who can do a quick evaluation of knee stability. It usually involves holding above the knee stable while seeing how much deflection left/right and fore/aft the knee joint has compared with the other knee.

Be super careful with this until you know for sure what it is. Grade 1/2 tears heal up ok with time and physical therapy, but if you jump back on the board too soon, it could completely tear.

[DiveBomber]

grade 2 tear of something or other. Won't hear any popping, not much, if any swelling. You will have instability and pain.

Find an orthopod who can do a quick evaluation of knee stability. It usually involves holding above the knee stable while seeing how much deflection left/right and fore/aft the knee joint has compared with the other knee.

Be super careful with this until you know for sure what it is. Grade 1/2 tears heal up ok with time and physical therapy, but if you jump back on the board too soon, it could completely tear.

tear of ligament or meniscus?

I dont really feel a loss of stability, though right now I do have some swelling, so im icing it and taking ibuprofen.

it almost feels ok in riding position.

[Hotbeans]

Impossible to tell definitively w/o mri. I've had both (meniscus and ligament tears)..and both at the same time.

I'd reiterate being extremely cautious about getting back on the board w/o more info. You'd hate to blow something completely away and take the next 4-6 months rehabing. That'd really blow..

No family/relative/friend orthopod? You might also hit a local ortho and let him know your situation about insurance. When I was in school w/o insurance, I broke collarbone 2x and blew ligaments in ankle and let the dr. know that I'd be self-pay/student. He certainly helped out A LOT! IE: ~25% of what normally was charged. The stability test alone would go a long way towards peace of mind. A torn meniscus will just hurt worse if abused. A ligament, again, could competely let go. That'd probably mean surgical repair.

[DiveBomber]

Impossible to tell definitively w/o mri. I've had both (meniscus and ligament tears)..and both at the same time.

I'd reiterate being extremely cautious about getting back on the board w/o more info. You'd hate to blow something completely away and take the next 4-6 months rehabing. That'd really blow..

No family/relative/friend orthopod? You might also hit a local ortho and let him know your situation about insurance. When I was in school w/o insurance, I broke collarbone 2x and blew ligaments in ankle and let the dr. know that I'd be self-pay/student. He certainly helped out A LOT! IE: ~25% of what normally was charged. The stability test alone would go a long way towards peace of mind. A torn meniscus will just hurt worse if abused. A ligament, again, could competely let go. That'd probably mean surgical repair.

yes, thats true, I made an appointment for monday morning.

I was just thinking, it seemed alot like jamming your finger, like when you miss a catch or something.

SO whats the best case scenario??

Its feelling a bit better, now just tight/swolen tendons for the most part.

[rhaskins]

compressed whatchamacallit between the bones. It will (should) be ok after a bit. I did that with my wrist - one point landing to concrete, full body extensions. 10 points from the spectators, but I digress. I had to wear a brace on it for 6 weeks.

I got a knee brace right after breaking my leg, before I went to the Docs office the next day, it helped ease the pain. It is this one:

http://www.rei.com/product/745518

Fits under the pants. Helped me walk correctly for the first few weeks.

Rick

[rhaskins]

Divebomber:

I see you maybe into bikes. I ride an Ellsworth Jester full suspension, a Salsa Juan Solo single speed, a Surley Instigator built up for downhill - I need a different frame but whatever, and a couple of road bikes (1 single speed). Just got rid of my dirt jumper as I was not using it. I pretty much use all good components, King hubs and headsets, Hope brakes, Mavic wheels and stuff. I love riding in the desert and mountains - its just that I have to drive for 2 days to do that.

It was a &*$%er when I could not ride for 6 months because of the broken leg. Hope you don't have issues like that.

Rick

[Hotbeans]

best case scenario grade 1 tear, stretched a bit, but will recover just fine if taken care of in first 4-6 weeks.

If it were me, I'd sharpen my diet and start with really light range of motion, progressing to those exercise bands to finally some high rep moderate stuff. Don't just focus on the "where it hurts" area/ motions. A full 360degrees workout will help the supporting cast of muscles/ligaments stay in alignment and help take the strain off the injured one.

Again, use any physical therapists you know/run in to.

Personally, I'd rather break a bone or two than mess up ligaments. /those can be a pita for a lllooooonnnngg time.

[DiveBomber]

best case scenario grade 1 tear, stretched a bit, but will recover just fine if taken care of in first 4-6 weeks.

If it were me, I'd sharpen my diet and start with really light range of motion, progressing to those exercise bands to finally some high rep moderate stuff. Don't just focus on the "where it hurts" area/ motions. A full 360degrees workout will help the supporting cast of muscles/ligaments stay in alignment and help take the strain off the injured one.

Again, use any physical therapists you know/run in to.

Personally, I'd rather break a bone or two than mess up ligaments. /those can be a pita for a lllooooonnnngg time.

can you feel a ligament tear?

Right now im getting a greater range of motion back, right now its just feeling like a twisted knee kinda, but I can almost walk normally now, really only notice anything when i try to fully extend my leg, but I think alot of that Is because of the tightnes/swelling.

Been icing it, think it might be time to try some heat. also been taking ibuprofen, I think I might switch to asprin over night.

My legs are pretty strong, I have some large muscles, never had any problems before.

[vapor]

The menicus shouldnt have torn if there wasn't rotaion involved,but you still could of bruised it.It sounds more like a grade 1/2 acl strain with you having trouble extending the leg.

If it's already starting to feel better my bet is you didn't do anything serious but to be on the safe side dont push it.

Docters opinion would be better but ive been sent out of the emergency misdiagnosed with torn/ dislocated / broken stuff before and told to"suck it up princess". In the end you know what your body feels like and what its telling you.

[Hotbeans]

+1 for that. I think it's said often enuf about 'opinions'..

(including my own!)

[DiveBomber]

hmmm feeling a little better, I stepped on the trainer(bike) to see if I could make a ful rotation, and it seems ok in that respect. still a little swelling, but it definately feels better when warmed, like when I get out of a hot shower.

would it be a bad idea to get on the bike and spin slowly?

[DiveBomber]

The menicus shouldnt have torn if there wasn't rotaion involved,but you still could of bruised it.It sounds more like a grade 1/2 acl strain with you having trouble extending the leg.

If it's already starting to feel better my bet is you didn't do anything serious but to be on the safe side dont push it.

Docters opinion would be better but ive been sent out of the emergency misdiagnosed with torn/ dislocated / broken stuff before and told to"suck it up princess". In the end you know what your body feels like and what its telling you.

well I can almost fully extend it, actually almost have more trouble bending back more than 90deg, but its funny because that is more from the outside/lower tendon it feels like.

but boy, when it happend that was some major pain there!

[willywhit]

Dr D could prob give you some <b> real </b> medical advice but not sure he'll comment on a <i>jibber</i> related injury. Now, had you been diving into a nice deep toeside arc and highsided and cartwheeled a few times, now <u> that </u> might be worthy of a professional prognosis.

Arc it or Park it, and you chose to park it.

I have a ligament tear that still has me gimping. it is a real pita, well pit...hip.

[Dr D]

The cheapest place to get an xray would be a chiropractor $40 is about the going rate for a full set of knee films. Look for a sports oriented one. He may be able to get you a quick MRI appointment and a deal on that as well if he's well connected.

there are several simple orthopedic tests that can differentiate between meniscus and ligament. lay on your belly and bend the leg up to 90 degrees. Have a friend push straight down on the foot pushing the knee into the floor. repeat twice rotating the foot in on one and out on the other. pain would indicate possible meniscus. (since you can load it already this is unlikely)

have the friend hold the knee down and repeat the test pulling upward on the foor instead of pushing down. straight foot right rotated and left rotated. pain with these would indicate ligament.

the chiropractor should do this test as well. It should also be noted that a pain positive on these tests doesn't mean you for sure have a either problem but would tell you that you need an MRI.

Conservative care prior to that would consist of checking to see if the knee is simply misaligned and adjusting it and possible kinesiotaping it for a week or two. Ice packs regularly in any case.

you would be amazed how much pain a simple misalignment can cause and how simple it is to fix it.

Get thee to a sports chiro its your cheapest option and you will get referred out for the more serious stuff if it is necessary:biggthump

lots of choices on google. washington park chiropractic looks like a good possibility Dr Goodman