Base-high board observations

[Hotbeans]

I spent 5 hours yesterday tweaking the cants on my os2's and trying out my "new to me" oxygen proton (same board as "convex base" thread).

Btw, a "base-high" board as this proton is, is a tricky little bastard to carve on. Conditions were hardpack/ice, blue runs: initiating turns was difficult at low speeds; there wasn't an edge unless there was a high degree of articulation. Balancing up high on an edge at low speeds involved a higher degree of finesse than I'm used to and I frequently fell over. Initiating turns at higher speeds led to a lot of skidding and then rather abrupt hook-ups. While the board is only slightly smaller through the waist than my Coiler SLC, it felt like I was trying to stay on top of a 2x4.

[KingCrimson]

Sounds familiar to me riding base-high boards.

So what are you gonna do? Grind the crap out of it?

[Hotbeans]

Mike at Skimd says he can fix it up. I'm digging my coiler so much lately that it may have to wait until early spring before I ship it off.

[Mattias112]

I spent 5 hours yesterday tweaking the cants on my os2's and trying out my "new to me" oxygen proton (same board as "convex base" thread).

Btw, a "base-high" board as this proton is, is a tricky little bastard to carve on. Conditions were hardpack/ice, blue runs: initiating turns was difficult at low speeds; there wasn't an edge unless there was a high degree of articulation. Balancing up high on an edge at low speeds involved a higher degree of finesse than I'm used to and I frequently fell over. Initiating turns at higher speeds led to a lot of skidding and then rather abrupt hook-ups. While the board is only slightly smaller through the waist than my Coiler SLC, it felt like I was trying to stay on top of a 2x4.

Sounds strange to me! I have had several oxygen protons and all have been very easy to ride with rather soft noses( I only weight 66 kg). (164, 168, 174, 185 and the Dangerous). The protons are well known for great edge hold even on ice. (www.alpinecarving.com) And a convex base would not change this. only make it easier to ride.

Perhaps you mentioned it but which version and length of the proton do you have?

[canuckcarver]

i have the same problem on my proton (178), older model ,has red down the entire length and some white/silver on the sides by the bindings, i think for me it might be a stance width issue, its set up the exact same as my 163, yet i have no problem riding it,

[Hotbeans]

gs 172. I can see where, properly tuned, this board could have a lot to offer. The day I spent riding it, I went 4 runs, then switched to my coiler, then back again to the oxygen. I feel this provided a fair comparison in regards to edge hold, angulation required to "bite", and, I was hoping for carve characteristics. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a fair assesment on the last part because of the pronounced skidding and the *high* degree of angulation I needed to get it to hook up. Once it hooked up into a carve, it held a line really well. The issue I was having was that the angulation required to hook up wasn't in phase with the speed I was carrying (excessively high degree of angulation for lower speeds), and, hook-up was quite sudden and unpredictable.

[Mattias112]

Sounds exactly like it is when riding a stiff borad at low speeds... And of course, if you use counterrotation when initiatin a turn. A stiff board with longer radius will need more speed, if you do not have a really good technic and have a lot of weight... If you are extremely good and sensitive rider and compere excatly the same boards then you will feel the difference on a convex bottom of 2mm and one with flat bottom. But if its not over 3 mm convex then I hardly think it is the only cause of your "problem" with the board, (but perhaps some of it). Then its also probably a technic or setup thing.

[Hotbeans]

Sounds exactly like it is when riding a stiff borad at low speeds... And of course, if you use counterrotation when initiatin a turn. A stiff board with longer radius will need more speed, if you do not have a really good technic and have a lot of weight... If you are extremely good and sensitive rider and compere excatly the same boards then you will feel the difference on a convex bottom of 2mm and one with flat bottom. But if its not over 3 mm convex then I hardly think it is the only cause of your "problem" with the board, (but perhaps some of it). Then its also probably a technic or setup thing.

I'm not denying that it could be a technique issue. I tried higher speed carving with the board and "feathering" into a carve was impossible. It was either skidding sideways (remember, this was on *hard* snow/ice conditions, and by skidding, I mean like trying to ride a dinner plate.) at high speeds *with* the usual recommended angulation or, once a higher degree of angulation was achieved, an instant hook-up. At any rate, I'd like a little more control of the edge.

If you suggest a different technique to practice or angle set-up, I'd be happy to give it another go. I'm going early next week.

[AK in PA]

I'm 190#+/- and have 2 Protons, a 178 (14m s.c.) and 185 (16 m s.c.). I like both alot. They ride best with a very weight forward, aggressive style. Throw your weight towards the nose, and I think you may see a difference. (I've never ridden a board with a convex base though.)

At very slow carving speeds, they're not much fun, much like riding a 2x6. Skidding turns (especially) on gentle slopes is nothing short of a chore, particularly with the 185. (Though bouncing thru bumps is OK.) But, ramp them up, get some speed, get aggressive, and they come alive! IMO, they have a good bit of pop edge-edge when you get them going, which you might not expect from their fairly chatterless carve. There's a magic speed at which this seems to happen. My 178 is the maroon w/ silver edge stripe and fireball nose model. My 185 is blue w/ dots, (older model I believe) and is a little softer. The 178 is a slightly tighter turning ride, especially on ice, and is more lively. The 185 is more damp, and MUCH more stable in choppy conditions. It's a great spring / wet conditions board. Cuts across ruts and chop like they're not there. Both, however, can be "hooky", and not want to release out of a carve. Sure bet almost, if you're too low and too slow.

This year I bought a newer, but used, 182 Coiler metal NSR. I've compared the 178 Proton on back-back runs against it. The Proton is a great east coast ride. The NSR is the ultimate in dampness, though. NO chatter and holds an edge better for hip to the snow carves. Unreal, really. It seems to like a more centered stance. But it has almost no pop, excepting the more straight down the fall line / slalom edge changes. The Coiler has become my everyday go-to board. It may replace my 185 Proton for crud, too. But I'm not about to give up my 178 Proton. Still lots of poppy fun on good snow.

[Mattias112]

As mention above some of the proton models need to be ridden with a forward weight to bend the nose enough to initiate the turn without skidding. Since I am very light I have mounted my bindings 2-4 cm forward of center of the inserts. I also need to have a narrower stance to bend a stiff board easier. This works very well, for example I have a Burner 197 with very stiff flex that I absolutely love. With this board I use the stance 40-42 cm, which is very narrow. But It works marvelous. On most board I use around 46 cm.

As for angles I use my back boot in the binding and turn it until it is no boot overhang at all. Mostly somewhere between 55-67 on my backfoot and add 5-7 degrees on my frontfoot. When I try a wider board I use lowe angels down to about 40 degrees on some wide boards. It doesn't seem to matter as much as some seems to think :lol:

[Hotbeans]

Hmm. I'll take her back out with an adjusted stance although I don't think that the board is particularly stiff..maybe even a bit softish. I'm looking forward to having this help, especially as it looks like it'll be, once again, a sheet of ice!

You guys think a 0/2 degree edge angle is ok then? I won't put ANY angle on the bottom, as with the base the way it is, it probably already has about 5deg..

[Mattias112]

I use 0/1 edges. But if you have as much "baselift" I would just go 0/0.

As for canting I use different on different boards. Narrow stance with no canting on front and just 3degrees combined cant and heel lift(TD2) on backfoot. Just go for it!