killing jumping

[rhaskins]

Yeah, but, I'm comfortable with the panel on the right. The UK panel looks awesome tho.

Once, in the Navy, we had a critical circuit go out at sea. They wrapped me in rubber (not as fun as it sounds), put rubber gloves on me, put some non-conductive ropes around me with 2 guys ready to yanke me out, and had me work IN (****IN****) THE FREAKING LIVE BUSS SYSTEM to fix the circuit. Still have nightmares about that one. At first I refused as it was too dangerous, but then the Captain came down and had a personal chat with me. I change my mind and did it. But I digress. That US panel looks like the wide open plains in comparision. Comfortable even.

And, yeah, the companies with the bucks get too much influence in writing almost all standards. What ya gonna do, eh?

Rick

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Yeah, but, I'm comfortable with the panel on the right. The UK panel looks awesome tho.

Once, in the Navy, we had a critical circuit go out at sea. They wrapped me in rubber (not as fun as it sounds), put rubber gloves on me, put some non-conductive ropes around me with 2 guys ready to yanke me out, and had me work IN (****IN****) THE FREAKING LIVE BUSS SYSTEM to fix the circuit. Still have nightmares about that one. At first I refused as it was too dangerous, but then the Captain came down and had a personal chat with me. I change my mind and did it. But I digress. That US panel looks like the wide open plains in comparision. Comfortable even.

And, yeah, the companies with the bucks get too much influence in writing almost all standards. What ya gonna do, eh?

Rick

Cool Rick, what was the task? Curious.

Ever DRILLED live buss?

Weld on buss that was 5" thick 12" tall and 1/4 mile long with several in parallel? I was told that it was rated at 72,000 amps.

Made up "Stress cones" for high voltage feeder cables in freezing nasty weather.

IBEW brothers do it every day all over the country.

NECA and the IBEW

I would not wanted to have been coated in rubber if there was a flash.

That would have been REALLY nasty to clean up!!

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

BobD, Do you know what the IC rating of the main is on the UK panel?

When I travel I am always curious about the different methods and materials in foreign electrical systems. I have seen some pretty interesting installations.

To answer you question.

If I was on the clock and in the USA. I would much rather work on the USA Panel. It is what I have trained to do.

However, push come to shove, I would be able to work on the UK panel. The electrical theory has not changed, only the

methods, codes etc.

For those who work in the industry in the US, the UK panel would seem a bit odd.

Examples.

Fed from the bottom.

Colors (Colored conductors going to the neutral and ground busses

Size, international lugs etc seem small for their current ratings.

NOTE: The US Panel looks pretty clean, however , I would not have run that neutral conductor across the vertical buss from the main breaker, even if the insulation rating is good for it, just not a good idea. Re-route it to the edge.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Sorry Lowrider, we managed to turn your "Killing the Jumps" thread into a

Electrical Safety forum.

I will delete my unrelated posts if you like.

Bryan

[rhaskins]

We had an indicator circuit for a DC buss (this was a DC buss panel fed directly from the generators) go out. Lotsa amps. The indicator had a terminal that flashed off. I had to reach thru the back of the panel, which stood about 7 feet tall, 8 ft wide, thru the buss bars about 18 inches and unconnect the failed unit from the front of the panel, pull it out, then put the new one in and attach leads. I was up against the live buss bars all the time. Trick was to buddy up to one polarity and not 2 - hence all that rubber. The chief electrician's mate and I talked it over, and we agreed that if I needed to be pulled out there would be a lot of bacon smell in the air. Yeah, and it was in an engine room so the temp was about 110 or so anyway, in a real constricted space. I was a pile of sweat. OTOH, I stayed out of the brig.

Never again.

Rick

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Damn Rick, now I am going to have nightmares!!

[rhaskins]

We were at war! They coulda made me walk the plank if I didn't.

Rick

[lowrider]

don't get me wrong on any safety issue my beef is with paranoia and the insurance chill we have all been exposed to recently. How are kids today going to learn to asses their own skills in varying situations while boarding and skiing if they only experience the sanitized conditions of todays insurance chilled resorts. Safety netting down the entire slope and groomed slopes so flat one out of place snowball causes everone to take evasive action. AS far as electrical safety, if your equip won't make the job 100% safe pass it off to your boss thats why he makes the big bucks ! When it comes to safety on the slopes I question the importance of park crews going thru the park mid day and measuring the angle of approaches to park features, to cover their insurance brokers requirements but failing to pad a maple tree clearly in the middle of a run . I don't expect them to cut all said trees or even pad them but at the same time if one is capable of avoiding these clearly lethal behemoths everything else is childs play so let them play!

[Chubz]

Not asking to sanitize the slopes, but I am asking to have people ski and ride in control and not become human torpedos. I have been blindsided more than once by some A$$ who thinks straightlining is the only way to get down the mountain. AND I dont mind kids getting bit of air off some accumulated mounds, but then you give them an inch and they take it a mile and that is when some one gets crunched. The insurance influence also comes from whether the insurance guy bases his recommendations on frequency or severity of the incidents.

Frequency typically indicates systemic problems and severity most commonly is a one off event.

Measuring park angles?????? that is stupid and the insurance rep that recommends that instead of padding the tree needs his tree shook. Unless of course it was a larger park that might lead to kids overshooting the landing and pancaking in the flats. They may have had some losses come from that type of incident, but measuring angles is silly for smaller parks.

Lastly, dont blame it on the insurance guys, they are a part of the wicked legal cycle. lawyers, plain and simple.

[KingCrimson]

Ever get a freerider stuck between your legs? I was on toeside, made eye contact with the guy, and he rides right between my bindings. Tries to get out, and quickly finds out his board is wider than my stance. I pushed him down between my legs; I gave birth to a softbooter on the snow.

On heelside..just traversing getting to another run, I hear a noise behind me. all the sudden something hits my rear boot, and then a highback gets shoved into my hamstring. Saw it go off the mountain into steep ice. Heinz, yes, Heinz, the german ski instructor with the thick accent rushes over, makes sure I'm okay, and points to the two guys walking down the slope above me. One has a snowboard, the other doesn't. Mountain High's east side is so poorly laid out. Basically, there is a beautiful beginner area at the top. When you're done, just ride down the black diamonds to get to the bottom..

[rhaskins]

On a related note, I viewed a lot of the episodes of "Ski Patrol" on truetv yesterday. I know, it is "reality" tv, but it was interesting.

The attitudes that the SP had to contend with was amazing: young white kids with such a sense of entitlement that they would argue with SP, would take off (where do they think they are going?) and etc. Lots of collisions, lots of injuries, people that would collide and injure someone and then take off. And people wonder about high insurance costs? The code of responsibility was meaningless to a lot of those people. No sense of personal responsibility.

For every Shaun White out there there a a couple thousand young men with way too much attitude and very little skill in comparision. I hope I comply with the rules of responsibility, but I add one to the list: do no harm.

If you are in the resort business, you have to have insurance to operate. If you are an insurance company, where do you begin to evaluate the risk? I think that the OP has no concept that, but for the risk undertaken by these companies (bought and paid for by these companies in maintenance costs, insurance payments and staff), he would be boarding down the local gully instead of at a well maintained resort. That have to have some simple rules. And enforcement. Oh well.

Rick

[KingCrimson]

Rick- you may want to pick up the OEC book. A patroller may be more than happy to lend you one if you ask. While not clearly written, there are techniques in the scenarios section that indicate you can bust someone a lot easier if you let them run away. It breaks the line between subjective and objective. They just love it if they run for it.

Consider a few other things. Camera in the face, and editing. That's a full 8am to 4pm day, and they can pull 3 speeders and 6-7 bad accidents, and 1 cutesy story per episode. People want to perform in front of the camera. A couple things irk me to no end. I read the OEC book cover to cover (yes, I REALLY want to patrol. Really) and it is so clear you do not under any circumstance discuss things like "There's an 8 inch gash with a flap on his back" in front of the patient. Bad bad bad bad. What I thought might have been the situation was a spinal injury, broken ribs and consequent potential lung puncture. Do you really want to stack shock on top of that?

Concussions.. My god. 3 per episode? Don't people get that they are bad? Heel side skids with a duck stance..hit a patch of ice, fall on your ass, head hits the ice, and your chin hits your chest. 2 conditions, rotation and impact. There's your free ticket to a visit from the Concussion Fairy. Why are helmets still optional?

Okay I'm done.

[BobD]

BobD, Do you know what the IC rating of the main is on the UK panel?

When I travel I am always curious about the different methods and materials in foreign electrical systems. I have seen some pretty interesting installations.

To answer you question.

If I was on the clock and in the USA. I would much rather work on the USA Panel. It is what I have trained to do.

However, push come to shove, I would be able to work on the UK panel. The electrical theory has not changed, only the

methods, codes etc.

For those who work in the industry in the US, the UK panel would seem a bit odd.

Examples.

Fed from the bottom.

Colors (Colored conductors going to the neutral and ground busses

Size, international lugs etc seem small for their current ratings.

NOTE: The US Panel looks pretty clean, however , I would not have run that neutral conductor across the vertical buss from the main breaker, even if the insulation rating is good for it, just not a good idea. Re-route it to the edge.

Bryan, Not sure what the IC rating would be on that. The interesting thing about SCA is that a UK electrician would calculate the size of the ground conductor for every circuit based on the SCA at the furthest point of that circuit. For old work, a ground loop impedance tester is needed to establish what the SCA is before a circuit can be extended. The code (IEE Regs) book has graphs showing the time/sca disconnection times for all the types of breakers and fuses and prescribes disconnection times based on the type of circuit.. Ideal tried to market a ground loop impedance tester here in the US a few years ago, but there was no interest in it. I showed the Ideal rep how to use it at a wholesaler (old building) one day and they were all surprised to see that the receptacles on the trade counter had an SCA of only about 40 amps. I'm guessing the breaker would have taken several minutes to disconnect a short circuit. Most electricians here see no relationship between volt drop and grounding. So the big difference between UK and US code is the UK code is performance based, requiring an electrician to actually test ground loop impedance, polarity, and insulation values.

When I moved to MN, the State Board would only give one years credit on a four year apprenticeship for overseas experience. So I have actually served two apprenticeships to be an electrician.

BTW We lost a brother last year in a silly accident. Just tying a ground into a 480 temp panel on a const. site. Wrench slipped and he died of burns. Another several years ago, used a steel tape measure over a 480 bus and died the same way. I'll suit up now to work on 480 hot, but I still want to stand on top of my four footer when I'm doing residential.

BobD

PS what's your book look like out there

[rhaskins]

Rick- you may want to pick up the OEC book. A patroller may be more than happy to lend you one if you ask. While not clearly written, there are techniques in the scenarios section that indicate you can bust someone a lot easier if you let them run away. It breaks the line between subjective and objective. They just love it if they run for it.

Consider a few other things. Camera in the face, and editing. That's a full 8am to 4pm day, and they can pull 3 speeders and 6-7 bad accidents, and 1 cutesy story per episode. People want to perform in front of the camera. A couple things irk me to no end. I read the OEC book cover to cover (yes, I REALLY want to patrol. Really) and it is so clear you do not under any circumstance discuss things like "There's an 8 inch gash with a flap on his back" in front of the patient. Bad bad bad bad. What I thought might have been the situation was a spinal injury, broken ribs and consequent potential lung puncture. Do you really want to stack shock on top of that?

Concussions.. My god. 3 per episode? Don't people get that they are bad? Heel side skids with a duck stance..hit a patch of ice, fall on your ass, head hits the ice, and your chin hits your chest. 2 conditions, rotation and impact. There's your free ticket to a visit from the Concussion Fairy. Why are helmets still optional?

Okay I'm done.

Hence why I said it was "reality tv". Sorry you didn't pick up on that. If you filmed my day and edited it down to interesting content you would think all I did was make filthy and sarcastic comments about other drivers. I mean, really, the way some (most) people drive, how can they ever have sex? Figure out what that means by yourself.

Rick

[KingCrimson]

Sorry, seems like my comment might have come out the wrong way, my bad. What I meant to say is, pick up an OEC book if not for kicks. I think you'll like it if that show bugs you :)

The rest was me just going off on a non specific ramble.

I think we need a Rhaskins reality show.

[rhaskins]

What the $#*& you talk'n about, Willis?:D

Rick

Sorry, seems like my comment might have come out the wrong way, my bad. What I meant to say is, pick up an OEC book if not for kicks. I think you'll like it if that show bugs you :)

The rest was me just going off on a non specific ramble.

I think we need a Rhaskins reality show.

[Chubz]

JBS and I ride in the epicenter of that place (Blue Mountian PA) every weekend. Head on a swivel and when I say you have to pick your spot, you really do. The other thing that throws our riding off a bit is the turning the head back up the slope about every third toeside to see what rockets are coming for us.

So far this season, for human scuds hitting us from behind.

JBS- 1

Chubz-0

I wear full face helmet and body armor.

By the way, you guys who do electrical work are special:freak3: ITs a hidden monster waiting to bite and I have seen a few get bit.

[Chubz]

I always dug this video. I would imagine it would make you a bit nervous the first time.

http://www.flixxy.com/helicopter-cable-inspector.htm

Talk about not being stuck in an office.

[rhaskins]

To me, the scariest part of that would be piloting the helo. Breeze, water in gas, scratch an itch the wrong way, major ouch.

Rick