Anybody with the 29er bug?

[KingCrimson]

Ya know, 29 inch mountain bike wheels?

I just picked up a Raleigh XXIX Single Speed last night, got back too late to have ridden yet, but on the test ride, I was happy with the "plow-ability" of the 29 inch wheel, such as riding straight at a curb and mounting it without any change in weight distribution.

Also, it maintains an unusually clean and solid construction due to the fact that it uses vertical dropouts like bike with a tensioner, and the bottom bracket is actually a cam, and simply by removing 2 set screws and moving it, the elliptical range of motion can be utilized to tension and relax the chain.

Mechanical disc breaks, they aren't great by any means, Avid BB-5s, but they stop the bike.

Anyone else here ride 29?

[Phil]

My buddy who is my height (freakishly tall) bought a 29er and said that it was the first time that he felt like a bike was made for guys our size.

I test rode it and ordered one for myself.

'08 Kona Hei Hei 29er 22 inch frame. The thing is really nice.

I still would not ride a 29er for my other rides (DH, FR, DJ), but for XC I will probably never go back to 26.

Enjoy yours, they are a blast. I am not sure I would like the single speed or the rigid, though. I am too old for that kind of beating - even on a 29er.

[boarderboy]

but I'm really eying the Marin MuirWood 29er as a fast, lightweight city commuter and greenway fitness ride.

I have no idea how to size it, though (I'm 6'). Its smallest frame begins where most bikes top out...

enjoy

[KingCrimson]

Phil- couple things to consider in regards to a rigid 29er here. Also, what's your standard of freakishly tall? My brother is 6 foot 8 inches.

Many people who ride FS for XC (which I personally don't understand) actually find that a 29er even without a fork is plenty of suspension, fine print being assuming it's a steel frame and fork.

The longer forks flex much more easily, due to the fact that there's more leverage acting on them from their own length, along with the size of the wheel acting on them. Another point is that the wheel itself is inherently more "flexy" than a 26 inch bike for many of the same reasons. And again, they steam roll much better than a 26 due to the lower angle of attack. The more meaty tires can also be run at a lower pressure than 26s, contributing to the nice ride.

Also, due to the fact it's a single, you generally spend a good deal more time out of the saddle, and having a suspension isn't conducive to efficient technique, because you get the silly bouncing motion coming from the fork.

Everything comes together nicely between the balance of no suspension, single speed, and 29er.

And I can flip the hub to fixxie and be a core messenger, right?

Boarderboy- I'm 6 1 and the size large Raleigh fits me perfectly for offroad (3-4 inches crotchal clearance) Crotchal? What kind of a word is that?

A cheap, aluminum framed option would be the Motobecane Outcast 29 which is an aluminum framed SS with a pretty stout gear ratio, and the wheels only make it better :)

Also, it's only 400 from bikes direct! http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/outcast29_08.htm But some of the stuff is crap on it, you'll have to read around for reviews on it to see what needs to be replaced, but I think it would be a great bike and lots of fun.

But if it's not your cup of tea, scroll to the bottom of this page, and you'll see all the 29ers.

What's your inseam?

[Phil]

5'18" and some change.

If you lived near me and rode the trails that I ride, you may understand FS XC a little better. Then again, at your age, it probably does not matter. When I was your age, I used to jump flights of stairs fully rigid. I knew guys who were dropping roofs fully rigid as well. Now I look back and think how stupid that was. O.K., it was not stupid, I was just young and my body could take it.

All of that being said, I have been riding FS XC for the last 11 of my 20+ years of riding XC. In fact, I have not ridden less than 4" of travel on both ends since '99. The only reason that I was willing to go down to 3" now is because of the 29 hoops. That makes sense, but on a 26, I am not interested.

I do have a rigid single speed, but it just collects dust. My trials bike is also rigid, for obvious reasons. My dirt jumper is a hard tail, but I would not have that any other way. Dirt jumping on FS is just too much work. My FR is sporting 6" on both ends (short by today's FR standards) and my DH is sporting 8" on both ends. I use every inch on both bikes.

I understand all that you are saying and I have heard all of these arguments before. They are all of the reasons that I would only ride XC on a 29er. I have ridden with countless guys that are running your setup. It just does not interest me at all. I am glad that these bikes exist for them and for you, but it is not my cup of tea. In my opinion, on the trails around here, they have to work too hard. In the rough, they end up having to ride like trials bikes. The other thing about single speeds is that they just cannot be pedaled as fast. I like to kill it in the big ring and am always amused at the guys spinning squares trying to keep up.

As far as out of the saddle efforts, I also keep them to a minimum except on downhills. Just too old for that.;)

Let me know if you ever get to the Mid Atlantic and can ride. I'm sure we'd have a blast.

I am not far from Diablo Freeride park. That place rocks!

[KingCrimson]

A little more SS Rigid preaching, and then I'll be done..

A butted frame is beautiful to have as well, because it allows for lots of "bowing" (David Bowie?) in the frame, almost using it as a big leaf spring. Also, I didn't really believe that a rigid 29 would behave as everybody had said in terms of flex, but when you hop on one, it's pretty darn surprising.

The most remarkable thing about 29 is it's similar position to alpine snowboarding. It's not mainstream (hopefully both will be!) but it can be superior.

Unfortunately, I don't spend much time around PA, maybe I'll just grind my singlespeed the ~2000 miles to get there. Out of the saddle, right? :p Actually, that Diablo place looks great, and there's a free room deal! We'd have to rent though....Looks awesome anyway. "Hay Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad?" On second thought, didn't I just brag about 29er's flex? I'll do rigid FR.

I could understand why DJing would be preferable on a 26 due to the fact that the wheels would hug the ramps better, but why not for DH? The wheels would be rolling more slowly for a given speed. Also, there's an assumption I have here, I have to spend more time on my 29er to verify this, but there is less of a tendency for things to lock up under breaking with discs with the 29er, because there is a larger lever between the rim and the hub with the longer spokes, so there is a significant flex that's unwound once the bike has fully stopped or the brakes have been released. When you get your bike, lock out the suspension and roll at a very slow pace and jam the brakes all the way and feel it rock back and forth, you'll know what I mean.

Hmm..perhaps we need spoke dampeners to absorb some of that energy and make thermo-efficient brake-wheels.

Ever seen a 69er or a 96er? Probably not your cup of tea for anything except light FR, but the basic idea is 29 in the front for the low angle of attack and plowing capability, and 26 in the back for easy acceleration, and a lower "gain ratio". (Sheldon Brown's measurement, RIP)

Perhaps you could throw your 29er fork on a FR bike to make a FS FR 69er? Geometry would be slightly better than "absolute crap"

[C5 Golfer]

Thinking about it -- need a Mnt Bike - 29er is great for my size

Fisher X-Caliber possibly - anyone have experience with Fisher?

http://www.fisherbikes.com/bike/model/x-caliber

[KingCrimson]

Are you sure you want an aluminum hardtail? Whatever benefits of 29er plushness there is kinda gets lost in that.

[C5 Golfer]

Are you sure you want an aluminum hardtail? Whatever benefits of 29er plushness there is kinda gets lost in that.

So Whatcha suggest

[KingCrimson]

You obviously want gears, this is gonna seem like a biased opinion coming from me, but it's from a former coworker of my father's. This particular fellow went to Moab with an SS 29er, but he's got other opinions about stuff. He recommended the Raleigh to me in the first place.

The Raleigh XXIX+G is the same as my bike, with the inclusion of a fork and gears, hence the G. It also has comfier grips than the SS.

Personally, I think an aluminum frame defeats some of the great benefits of a hardtail 29er because they end up so rigid.

The best thing to do is spend too much time reading about them, here's a good place to start. You'll find out what you need in a 29er fairly quickly. An important thing is to get to your local shop and tell them what you want and need and try some out. Hopefully they will have at least a few 29ers.

Good reading here: http://www.mtbr.com/29er/

And here: http://twentynineinches.com/

And this is the Raleigh with gears and a fork

[Art]

I started with a Redline MC 29er rigid (it was cheap) but it rode great. Sold it and now I ride a Kona Kula SS with 33/19 gears. It is a great XC ride with a Reba up front. I also have a Jamis Dakar expert FS with 26" wheels and I find the 29er handles better. With 2.3 tires (WTB Exi-wolf) it is still pretty smooth. With the SS if find I ride more efficiently and Pick better lines. In my race group I am just as competitive with the geared bikes but of course, long paved roads are a spin fest. I was riding my old Bontrager SS but the 26" wheels dont compare in the rock gardens around here. I dont do jumps or drops so that is moot for me. Also I have read all of the differing opinions on SS, geared, 29/26/96 and find for me I am happy with my set up, so not looking to get into it about any of that. If I was racing with long climbs, of course a geard bike is optimal, but I am plannig on a 22 rear for one of the local sufferfests this summer to test my legs. I usually ride rolling singletrack and if the circuit is right, I just pump the bike for speed...KC enjoy it, you can always upgrade the brakes. Also, I would recommend a rear cog with a wider flange at the cassette like a Surly or American Classic so the splines dont get chewed up. Proper tension and maintenance will go far too. As mentioned, MTBR has lots of info and reviews for you Al. You probably need a 20 to 22 inch frame for your height.

[Art]

Also, I find the Aluminium hard tail plenty soft.

[davekempmeister]

Very interesting conversation fellas. I'm tall and Phil is taller. I've gotta check out one of these 29ers for sure. Used to have a Cannondale Killer V 900 and The benefits of 29's would have been awesome on that bike. Aluminum hardtail with massive tubing and some funky geometry that kept even my long torso stretched out (I had the L frame as XL was too much). Sold it to a friend and am thinking about getting it back. Used it for urban guerilla runs as the crow flies. I'm gettin a tear. Please, no Cannondale bashing ("Crackenfail" as my friend calls them).

[AaronG]

I just received a Vassago Banderdash 29er frame. I will build it up in the next few months. The frame is made from double butted cromoly, not sure of the mfr of the tubing. The frame is disc brake only, no canti bosses. I will be throwing a RockShox Reba race on it along with some Avid Juicy 7 along with my XT 8 speed gruppo, complete with THUMBSHIFTERS!!!

vassagocycles.com

I have been riding my buddy's Fisher Paragon around a bit, XL frame. I like it on just about everything except steep climbs. You know the climbs where you have the point of the saddle wedged so far up your butt and your grindin' in granny and you got your chest leaning on the stem?? I noticed I had a bit more wheel flop on these type of climbs, also just a bit less able to handle the real tight switchbacks, other than those two items 29ers rock!!!

[KingCrimson]

Maiden voyage, started with 2 brand new tubes, ended with 2 swiss cheese tubes. Note to self- Stay on trail and stop showing off ability of larger wheels

Now, the snow conditions around here tends to be about an inch of fresh pow on top with this clay-like substance underneath, and the 29er bit in considerably better than my dad on a 26, especially on climbs. Seems to have a bigger contact patch.

Also when it turned to flattened softball sized rocks, there was no comparison. The 29er just floated whereas even an FS 26 just sinks and gets all squirrelly.

Climbs were easier than with a geared bike, even when grinding along a long steep pitch. You end up with a situation in which you know you can't change gears, so git yer ass out of the saddle and peddle!

Well, now I need some of those self sealing tubes eh? Rose Canyon..

Also, the bigger wheels and a properly fitted frame (a first for me!) gave me the confidence to really mash the front brake, so I've stopped faster and with less skidding than ever before. Another huge thing, the wheels carry speed FOREVER.

[philfell]

My girlfriend and I ride 29ers. I've had my Rig for a few seasons now, it hasn't let me down yet. The wheels roll so much better the 26ers.

[Art]

For me, I think the SS forces better balance, meaning when out of the saddle I have to keep momentum and rpms to keep the rear tire from losing traction, making me a more efficient rider. thats just me tho.

[KingCrimson]

I agree with that, the lower cadence it forces you into seems more controlled. Also, I no longer think "Okay, outta the saddle you go then," the first pedal stroke that's too hard just acts like a stair and I end up stood up.

The other thing is there's no second guessing that your gears will hold (due to the lack of derailleurs and SS-specific chainrings and cogs usually get away with nastier teeth because the chain never has to leave)...because nobody likes when your chain decides it doesn't like the gear you're in,

Abrupt

Seat

Slam

Possibly

Alarming or

Injuring

Nether regions

[dingbat]

I used to run 700c hybrid frames with a 700x45c Panaracer Smoke in the back and a 26" wheel and suspension fork up front. Worked great. Swaping the front end around worked like a suspension adjusted geometry before there was such a thing and the 26" wheel left me some leverage on the front end for the choppy stuff ( couldn't find a tire fatter than 45mm in 700c at the time which didn't help in that respect either ). The big wheel with a narrow (in comparasin to a 2.1) tire rolled riddiculously fast, hooked-up amazing on climbs, even in the snow, and cut right through mud to find traction on the bottom. When I have to pay out of pocket for an XC frame again, I'll definitely go back to this set up.

[KingCrimson]

Dingbat, that's cool, a pre 69er 69er!

I did a wide "green run" DH session on my fully rigid bike..and then in order to return to the parking lot, we had to descend a river bed, filled with rocks. Oh did I mention it was a river bed CUT INTO THE SIDE OF A SUPER STEEP MOUNTAIN?

It was purgatory in its purest form. We covered 3 miles in about 30 minutes (pathetic, I know), and then about 1000 feet in another 30.

Prior to hitting the river bed trail, we were on a super smooth portion of the trail, and there was nothing on the trail, until there was 1 fairly large rock. Target fixation kicked in, and I soon discovered the limit of the angle of attack with 29ers. I also said hello to the ground, and gave it a nice backrub, and my bike followed suit with me!

Moral of the story? There isn't one. I'm going again.

[Kent]

Kinda agree and disagree with many of the statement above....as typical. :)

I bought a 29er this year to race Leadville and Cheq Fat Tire. I don't notice a large difference in PERFORMANCE b/w my Superfly (ht 29er) and my Superlight (fs 26er)...duck for cover. There's certainly a riding difference, but the jury is still out regarding performance. Of course, my Superfly is 7 pounds lighter and comes in around 20.5 pounds.

I LOVE my 26 FS, so I'll use whatever fits the bill at the time.

A few thoughts...

A. Cost. A good FS 26 is going to cost A LOT of money. A good riding 29er is a fraction of that. Of course, not an accurate comparison as a 26 HT is a darn good deal too.

B. Wheel durability. 26 wheels are stiffer and more durable. Period.

C. An expert rider doesn't "roll over" stuff, he moves vertically as much as he does horizontally...bunny hopping, lifting the front wheel over obstacles, wheelie drops, etc. Not sure if the 29 argument on roll over if 100% valid.

D. I think the manufacturers are loving the 29er craze.

If I could only have 1 MTB, it would probably be my 29 rigid as a FS is a pain in the ass to maintain......

FWIW - I noticed a larger difference switching to tubeless than from going from 26 to 29. MUCH greater traction and handling.

[KingCrimson]

Too tired to form proper paragraphs, so I'll do this the cheapo way, if ya don't mind.

A. Cost. A good FS 26 is going to cost A LOT of money. A good riding 29er is a fraction of that. Of course, not an accurate comparison as a 26 HT is a darn good deal too.

B. Wheel durability. 26 wheels are stiffer and more durable. Period. No doubt! With discs on a 29er, you can feel the wheels rock a little bit due to the spokes flexing. However, sometimes you may not want an infinitely stiff wheels.

C. An expert rider doesn't "roll over" stuff, he moves vertically as much as he does horizontally...bunny hopping, lifting the front wheel over obstacles, wheelie drops, etc. Not sure if the 29 argument on roll over if 100% valid. Again, I agree completely. That said, sometimes it's still nice to have some physics on your side; the lower angle of attack lets you do a condsiderable amount. Also, in situations in which a 29er suffices where a rigid 26er would not, lifting the front wheel is likely to be easier.

D. I think the manufacturers are loving the 29er craze.

If I could only have 1 MTB, it would probably be my 29 rigid as a FS is a pain in the ass to maintain......

FWIW - I noticed a larger difference switching to tubeless than from going from 26 to 29. MUCH greater traction and handling.

Also, thank you for not bringing up wheel weight. IMO a bunch of bs.

[Kent]

And...why not stop at 29 when you can have 36?

Fellow hardbooter and bike designer/builder/welder/mechanic made this baddass last summer!

Also, fwiw....if you note the pic of my Superfly, I took off the Juicy Ultimates (gasp!) for BB7s, which I prefer the action and durability.

[KingCrimson]

Now 36 has too much rotational mass and isn't nimble enough for the tight turning needed for fast single tra...:lol:

That's a meatwad of a frame.

I did notice you had the BB7s, wasn't going to mention it on the off chance they weren't though.

I don't know how close they are to the BB5's I've got, but it's like the design bends the rotor into the stationary pad..and if I put the pad close enough that that doesn't occur, it rubs and grinds all day.

[Gecko]

Well, now I need some of those self sealing tubes eh? Rose Canyon...

Rose Canyon was on my commuting route to Miramar years ago...the gates were open by the pond in those days. I had soooo many flats in that canyon and San Clemente canyon...loved riding there though