Bobby Buggs Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Can someone explain the construtction differences between my standard all mountain from 3 years ago and todays "metal" boards. I see pics of the "metal" peeling like Tin Foil and wonder how this Tin Foil can make such a difference:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 The tin foil reflects cosmic radiation which can adversely affect the board's flex and damping. If you watch sci fi movies, you'll notice that people in the future often wear silver jump suits for the same reasons -- in the future we will learn that a layer of tin foil allows humans to operate more efficiently as well, just like those metal snowboards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cail Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 :lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Bobby, Have a look at these: http://www.hardbooter.net/serendipity/index.php?/archives/11-Why-Metal.html http://www.hardbooter.net/serendipity/index.php?/archives/10-Titanal.html Some care obvious needs to be taken and builders, like Bruce, are building metal rides w/the titanal layer below the topsheet. The overall performance is really remarkable and I was reminded again yesterday. Had a big, beefy glass board out first thing AM and switched it out for the Metal Prior after only a few runs. Stayed on the metal until about 3:00 PM w/a total of about 25 runs that day, ~20 of 'em on metal...left the hill with a big fat :D on my face. Was out riding yesterday with a couple of VERY happy and proud owners of the Coiler AM shape w/metal. More to come from these folks and others I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Well I take delivery of a Coiler AM Tin Foil machine Thursday. We shal see how the cosmic radiation is affected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDY_2_Carve Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 My 172 AM-T carves just as good as the 173 Superboard PR I had before it. The AM-T has better edge hold and the transitions don't seem to be much different between a 21.5 waist and a 18cm waist. From what I've heard, and from what I've felt under my own feet, the metal gives you superior edge hold and dampening, makes wider boards feel narrower, and makes short boards feel longer than they actually are. I think Shred can attest to that last part since his metal stubby shape has gotten quite the rave reviews. Congratz on your new quiver addition. Unless you're part of the rare few that are turned off by metal you'll probably have yourself a quiver killer and all your other boards will just pale in comparison. It's really hard for me to ride anything else lately! I think at the very least my AM-T has inspiried confidence in non-hero conditions which has been a godsend for me. I can now focus on good techinique instead of worrying about what's coming up ahead since I'm confident that the AM-T will just soak it all up and shred it to bits. I know I still have a long way to go but my riding has definately come up a notch or two since I've gotten the metal board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Kirk, Those are good articles about metal construction. I understand how the metal increases torsional rigidity, allowing a softer longitudinal flex, lighter weight, and better edge hold on ice. But what I don't fully understand is how it improves vibration dampening. It seems like the metal would act like a spring instead of like a damper, but I suppose that aluminum is not very "springy" and its ductility is what increases dampening, right? What I do know is that metal changes a board's feel. The metal Prior I demo'd felt kind of dead and sluggish to me. Perhaps that was due to the snow conditions, or my particular riding style, or the size and sidecut of the board being bigger than I'm used to. Or maybe it's just personal preference. For example, I've always preferred the livelier feel of a lightweight steel or titanium bike frame to an aluminum frame. I will be buying a Prior WCR sometime this year, and I'm having a tough time deciding between the standard WCR and the metal. Like I said, the metal felt kind of sluggish and dull to me, but I only rode it for a few runs on perfect groom. I suspect that their improvements are better felt on less-than-perfect groom. The metal WCR has generally gotten rave reviews on this board, and I've been told that it takes a couple of days to get used to them and adapt your riding style, and then they will transform your riding. I've also been advised to "get the metal if you can afford it". I'll probably go with the metal based on this advice, and because it will provide a good contrast to my super-lively Madd, but I'm still undecided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 I have my quiver killer for the past 4 seasons and its been that Coiler AM 172/19. It has Pop, great sweet spot, and can deal with anything less than 10 inches deep. Free riding in variable spring corn or carving on the porcelin That board allows for pilot error better than any thing I have been on. Its going to be hard to set it aside and not freak the night before I ride without it:o I have never been one NOT to try things but I always seem to come back to my AM and ride my best. I am wondering more about that actual build process, I would expect there is a significant difference in materials between the old build design and the Tin Foils. I am also concerned about the "dead" feeling. Chances are I wont get to ride it until Friday unless I can find Bruce somewhere in the middle of Stowe and get him to go to his car and get the board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Well I take delivery of a Coiler AM Tin Foil machine Thursday. We shal see how the cosmic radiation is affected Coilers have topsheets, so they're allegedly more protected and less prone to this sort of delam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Jack, can Bruce leave my board at the ECES tent?? If so can you tell him that as I will be there Thursday around lunch. I was discussing it with Bruce and I mistakenly said the Bomber tent, he said there was not going to be one. I said I saw somewhere there was going to be a tent. Let me know if this is an option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Bruce is bringing my new toy too I'll ask about yours. I'm rolling in Wednesday night, staying in the same condo as him. Come on baby, hold together... http://www.accuweather.com/forecast.asp?partner=accuweather&traveler=1&zipChg=1&zipcode=05672&metric=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 I see pics of the "metal" peeling like Tin Foil Well I take delivery of a Coiler AM Tin Foil machine Thursday You are comparing apples and oranges! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Jack if you can get my Tin Foil to the tent that would be great. If you can post it here as im sure Someone will have net access in your unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 You are comparing apples and oranges! Please elaborate, that is the purpose of this thread:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 What I do know is that metal changes a board's feel. The metal Prior I demo'd felt kind of dead and sluggish to me. Perhaps that was due to the snow conditions, or my particular riding style, or the size and sidecut of the board being bigger than I'm used to. Interesting. I have heard others say the same, yet I was pleasantly surprised at how lively the board rode. Not necessarily the equivalent of the pop you can get out of some glass decks, but quite good IMO. The metal WCR has generally gotten rave reviews on this board, and I've been told that it takes a couple of days to get used to them and adapt your riding style, and then they will transform your riding. I've also been advised to "get the metal if you can afford it". I'll probably go with the metal based on this advice, and because it will provide a good contrast to my super-lively Madd, but I'm still undecided. The madds I owned were fun, playful and held an amazing edge, but the metal rides I've been on do almost everything as well or better. Be interesting to hear more from those that have spent time on the Metal Madds. The only drawback I've experienced so far is that I find myself a bit paranoid in lift lines, moreso lately with some of the reports of damage, but the ride is just worth it! As has been said before by others here (particularly the Hardbooter crew), riding with a softer interface (ie F2) is really the way to go with these decks. I've ridden both TD2 & suspension kit as well as a thin lexan plate w/F2s - like the latter MUCH better for this particular deck. Just the right amount of feedback and overall better feel. (Still love my TDs Fin ;)) Good luck w/your decision. With the options out there, you really can't go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 But what I don't fully understand is how it improves vibration dampening. It seems like the metal would act like a spring instead of like a damper, but I suppose that aluminum is not very "springy" and its ductility is what increases dampening, right? The construction of a metal board is different than a typical composite board. They seem to incorporate quite a bit of rubber (a sheet instead of strips) relative to a typical board...... There are other things, but that is just one example. Also keep in mind, the only people that REALLY know what is in a Kessler for example, is Kessler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Please elaborate, that is the purpose of this thread:DSorry, I was short for time and should have waited to post until I had more time to explain. Disclaimer: I am not slamming any manufacturers, just expressing my personal opinions. My point in my previous post was the board in the pictures that is peeling is nothing compared to the board you are buying. IMO you bought the best board that money can buy. Shelly's new Coiler metal is less than a week old and has three hours of ride time on it. Sadly it was damaged in a car accident this last weekend. I'm going to take some photos and ask for Bruce's advice once he returns from ECES. I think I know what he will say, but he is the master and I'll take his word. You definitely add complexities when you mix materials. And as discussed above, the aluminum has to be anodized in order to get the resins to adhere. If delamination occurs, the anodized layer is pulled off, air immediately oxidizes the aluminum and re-bonding is next to impossible. IMO, the best thing you can do is protect the metal with a topsheet. Bruce had done his research. Maintain your board. If you have questions ask Bruce, he'll take care of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GQuentin Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Well I take delivery of a Coiler AM Tin Foil machine Thursday. We shal see how the cosmic radiation is affected Congratulations on your new addition. You will be blown away. When I rode mine for the 1st time it exceeded all my expectations. At SES i had a hard time demoing because the board will do anything and everything. I feel like I am a walking advertisement for Bruce, but I can't help it. Cheers Quentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Well I have been a Blind advocate for the Coiler AM since I got one in late 03. I have had and sold Madds, Rossi WCs, Sims, Nideckers, Rad Airs, Vokel, have a 173 to move. Im sure Im forgetting some but Never had the thought of selling my AM172, Never, I even stopped buying boards all together. Quiver??? who needs it when we have Bruce all mighty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDY_2_Carve Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 So BB what's the specs on your new Coiler? AM-T? 172? 19cm waist or standard 21.5? Just curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 I have to be different so I went with a 20.5 173 with of course this top sheet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GQuentin Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Well I have been a Blind advocate for the Coiler AM since I got one in late 03. I have had and sold Madds, Rossi WCs, Sims, Nideckers, Rad Airs, Vokel, have a 173 to move. Im sure Im forgetting some but Never had the thought of selling my AM172, Never, I even stopped buying boards all together.Quiver??? who needs it when we have Bruce all mighty Well said, "Quiver??? who needs it when we have Bruce all mighty" We should put that quote on t-shirts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GQuentin Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 WOW, Now thats a top sheet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Quiver??? who needs it when we have Bruce all mighty Amen. I forgot, then was reminded after I rode the Schtubby and especially after his recent customer service with Shelly's board! :biggthump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 The Only board NOT Coiler I am keeping is my Osin 178 4807. Not that I get to use it ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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