www.oldsnowboards.com Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 I think you are right all premium quality skis are done in sandwich construction Care to offer why? What makes them better? In more technical terms? Cause / effect ? Just curious. It appears to me, it is actually easier to build sandwich construction boards on smaller scale. It may be more cost effective on a large production scale to build cap construction , however what small production boards are built cap? Very few? Why? It is actually harder to form them? Could it be harder than sandwich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus the virus Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Care to offer why? What makes them better? In more technical terms? Cause / effect ? Just curious. It appears to me, it is actually easier to build sandwich construction boards on smaller scale. It may be more cost effective on a large production scale to build cap construction , however what small production boards are built cap? Very few? Why? It is actually harder to form them? Could it be harder than sandwich? Sorry, I sended the thread before I finished it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Some sandwiches are good, others crap. Same, same. Not sold that it is the method so much as execution and materials. Perhaps some suttle differences in design combinations. Virus cap? Did you build one? Curious. Has any of the current builders built a cap? Coiler, Donek, Prior? Maybe it is because of perception more than results and performance? I have seen some amazing technologies pasted by for fear that the general public's unwillingness to accept new things. Like; Snowboards Sidecut Flow bindings Metal skis (banned as dangerous originally, almost ruining Head Skis) It is easy to shout a popular idea from the crowd if they all buy into the same idea. Why would any builder bother even trying to build a cap snowboard if they felt the majority thought they were crap? Keep an open mind. Never say Never , you never know what will happen. We all may be riding cap asyms without metal in them or plastic discs on them next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus the virus Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Some sandwiches are good, others crap. Same, same. Not sold that it is the method so much as execution and materials. Perhaps some suttle differences in design combinations. Virus cap? Did you build one? Curious. Has any of the current builders built a cap? Coiler, Donek, Prior? Maybe it is because of perception more than results and performance? I have seen some amazing technologies pasted by for fear that the general public's unwillingness to accept new things. Like; Snowboards Sidecut Flow bindings Metal skis (banned as dangerous originally, almost ruining Head Skis) It is easy to shout a popular idea from the crowd if they all buy into the same idea. Why would any builder bother even trying to build a cap snowboard if they felt the majority thought they were crap? Keep an open mind. Never say Never , you never know what will happen. We all may be riding cap asyms without metal in them or plastic discs on them next year We built cap construction looking boards, but fiber was wrapped around the core to prevent splitting off in the edge area in 1999. I don´t say that cap is crap, I´m not god and I believe in that which makes sense for me. Maybe in future cap boards will rule the market. Every builder should concentrate on that what he can do best! We also work with 3 dimensional surfaces on boards what really makes sense, but in the edge area where you have the most power and you get all the hits, I think its not a good solution! An old engineers rule says: If it breaks make it softer! How do you want to make that critical point in the edge area softer without loosing performance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 lol, I'm dave mark II yeah, Bryan, about forty, ****, at one point I had a little over 10 at one time, none of which I had year before that and only one I had a year later but had picked up another five in the meantime. That's 15 right there. yes, allot of them were softboot rides, in particular when it came to capped boards. some of my favorites were capped too, Two ride yukons, great decks that ride now puts sidewalls on BTW but I had the capped ones. I worked in a couple shops slinging this stuff and repairing it, riding all the demos. highest failure rate of all the boards I saw were capped killer loops closely followed by steel aggression/volants. cap failures happen the most when you land hard on the tail or on impact with rocks, rails or wood. when they do fail they really blow apart. with skis the other constuction that fails is the metal sandwich right in front or behind the binding but this almost always happened in the bumps and the companies (usually volkl) would replace the ski. not the case with shattered caps unless there was no obvious point of impact. Metal boards like kesslers or priors with the metal topsheet are very prone to delams much more so than than most caps but the benefits of the construction are so dramatic it's worth it to some of us knowing the problems with it. Caps don't really offer anything that dramatic. this is a issue I've been adamant about for about a decade and as gear gets better we're seeing less caps from the major vendors this is good because they really are not as durable. Rossi even comes out and claims that caps are not as grabby and are thus easier to ski on, this is why their skis featuring "dualtec" aimed at beginners and intermediates have more cap and only have sidewall underfoot but not out at the tips. caps are right up there with aluminum blocks in the tails of boards, prone to failure and have become much less popular over the years. with my out stuff I've trashed allot of softboot rides, caps I had the biggest issues with. alpine it's been more breaking the noses off and tear outs except a burton alp that was capped that delamed at the corner of the tail. Burton covered it though! it's not like I pull this stuff out of thin air or anything, I have put my time in. another example of my point(s) is Fischer RC4s come in two versions, capped, these can be found in most shops then there is the RC4 WC it is a sandwich this ski has the same graphics and shapes as the capped model but this is what the actual real life racers get and they usually are something you order. Volkl was like that too for a long time there was P 30/40/50/60 that came in two versions one was something you could pick up at any shop and a totally different ski with the same graphics and shape but a construction that was different. they used these as their race stock because they must of done something better. BTW, I have been pissy for a couple weeks now as I have not been able to ride really because I have been very sick. I am unrepentant about my bitterness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeW Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Cap or not, i really dont care. only thing i really care is that i pray to god i dont accidentally ding my lib tech emma peel (1997 version with 1/4 20 holes, not m6). otherwise i'd be cursing to high heavens as i attempt to repair it. i jus tknow its the best board ive ever had. sandwich is ok with me, cuz it still functions fine, and easier to repair when I ding 'em. I mean, we should admit to ourselves, we all accidentally drop our board and we'd wince with grimace hoping damage's not too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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