What's the best two way radio?

[Dave Winters]

What do you guys use for two way radios? Do I need GMRS? Some I've used are really weak, almost useless. Where to buy online? Thanks, Dave Winters

[fishrising]

I like my Garmin Rino 120, it has both FRS and GRMS, plus a mapping gps.

[Guest AllMountain]

my family has not found consumer-level FRS or GMRS radios, even the higher-powered ones, to work reliably at ski mountains (despite manufacturers' claims of 5-mile range).

we prefer "commercial" or "public-safety" radios, used on GMRS frequencies. they put out 5 watts of radiated power, which is much more than most consumer-level radios, and they also employ more sensitive circuitry and better antennae, so their range is much greater. we can always commmunicate reliably from anywhere to anywhere at a ski resort, except when there is a mountain between us (i.e. 2 people are on opposite sides of a mountain).

the commercial radios are also more rugged; they're designed for daily use and abuse by businesses, police, etc. if you have one, you can also use it to communicate with your friends who have consumer-level FRS and GMRS radios.

commercial radios are made by manufacturers like vertex/standard, motorola, kenwood, icom, and ritron. you generally buy them from a local dealer, who programs them for the frequencies you choose. entry-level commercial radios currently cost about $300 for a radio/battery/charger kit and programming to GMRS & FRS frequencies. if you decide to get one, get a 5-watt uhf unit with a li-ion battery. if possible, get an optional speaker/mike like the police & firemen use; they make using the radios effortless when you're out riding.

i use vertex vx-800 units. they are expensive but work extremely well. i think the new vertex vx-180's (which are much less expensive) look very good, although i've never tried them. i don't have much experience with the other brands.

[jason_watkins]

I'm not quite sure I'm reading to spend $300 on a 5watt radio I may smash next time I get in an argument with a tree, but I have had horrible luck with FRS radios. Thank god for REI's no questions return policy... I've had to return 3 sets in the last year.

With the 5 watt radios do you find you can transmit up over and back down accross ridge lines? The only time I've had trouble getting someone on the mountain with little .5watt FRS radios is when someone is in one canyon and I'm in the other.

[Guest AllMountain]

I'm not quite sure I'm [ready] to spend $300 on a 5watt radio I may smash next time I get in an argument with a tree . . .

they are incredibly rugged. i doubt there's a way for a snowboarder to break one by crashing. they're made to military specs. we've had several for 4-5 yrs now, and they've taken plenty of abuse and never broken.

With the 5 watt radios do you find you can transmit up over and back down accross ridge lines?

no, even these commercial radios cannot do that. they'll go 25 miles mountain-top-to-mountain-top with a clear line of sight, but they will not go through a mountain. if one person is just a little past the top of the ridge, you can get enough signal through diffraction to communicate, but if you're both well down the ridge on opposite sides, you'll have to wait until the next time one of you rides up the lift to the top.

this problem can be solved through the use of a repeater. this would not be a viable solution for a casual user at a ski mountain, unless there already happens to be a gmrs or commercial repeater nearby. but a ski resort might consider operating their own repeater for their staff's internal communications.

[Guest Randy S.]

Hey allmountain,

Are repeaters tuned to specific frequencies, or are they good for a large spectrum? I know a bunch of the resorts in Tahoe have repeaters for their staff communications. It would be cool to be able to bounce off of those.

I know what you mean about the ridge thing. I can talk with people at Squaw Valley when I'm at Alpine Meadows if one of us is at the top of the hill. Otherwise there's no connection. The top of KT22 at Squaw has line-of-site to most of Alpine which is cool.

[Steve Dold]

The ski resorts set up their own licensed systems for their own use, with their own radios.

They'd be really upset if you used their repeaters

GMRS requires a license, but it's like CB used to be, almost no one bothers. But if you put up a GMRS repeater (or try to use someone elses), you draw attention to yourself.

Ham Radio gives the ultimate coverage. You need to study a few questions and take a test to get the license, but it pays off big time in performance. Most ski areas are likely to have repeaters nearby that are available for anyone (licensed) to use.

With Ham radio, even if there is no repeater handy, you can still find yourself a totally unoccupied channel. I find that with FRS/GMRS, most of my "missed calls" are caused by interference from other channel users. You probably still won't be able to talk from one canyon to another though.

Here is a somewhat amusing pic of me dragging my repeater up to the top of Slide Mountain (Mt. Rose ski area) on my snowboard.

Mt. Rose repeater pics

[Guest AllMountain]

Are repeaters tuned to specific frequencies . . . ?

yes, and as steve noted, you probably can't use them, because the resorts undoubtedly have exclusive licenses for the specific frequencies they're using in their area, and they don't want lots of customers crowding the frequencies.

Ham Radio gives the ultimate coverage.

no doubt ham coverage is superior. it was not a viable solution for us, because: (1) our younger kids couldn't get ham licenses and (2) none of our friends are interested in getting ham licenses or buying anything more expensive than consumer-level FRS/GMRS radios. getting higher-quality radios for use on FRS/GMRS frequencies was our best option.

if everyone you cared about talking to got a ham license, you'd have the best available solution.

[Steve Dold]

Hey, you know what would be funny? To build one of those simplex repeaters using an FRS radio, and take it up and hide it for the day at the top of the mountain. Heh heh

Like one of these things.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I bet it would work really well. I think I might try it if I can find one of those radio shack things.

Or better yet, use one on a mobile in the car, something with a decent receiver and about 50W transmitter. Man, talk about wiping the channel clean.

[jason_watkins]

I've only heard of it from high frequency wireless networking, but isn't it possible to build a passive repeater of sorts... a tuned resonator that can act as an RF mirror? Even a 1 watt consumer radio probibly has the range to cover your resort unless you're at whistler, and with something high up the hill to bounce off of you could get over the ridgelines.

[Steve Dold]

What do you mean, like two directional antennas connected back to back? That works pretty well if you're close to one of the antennas, but probably wouldn't if you're more than a hundred feet or so from the closest one. It's best for getting coverage inside a building, at work we use them to get coverage inside dams, of all places. It might work if you used amplifiers and really isolated the antennas, like having them both way down the slope of the ridge. I think we installed one in a prison once, but it was like $50,000 just for the repeater. In other words, it wouldn't be that practical for FRS and you couldn't license it anyway.