Wow...just wow...Kyocera Ceramic Knives

[Justin A.]

I just picked up a pair of Kyocera Revolution ceramic knives-the 5.5" Santoku and a 3" Pairing knife...all I can say is wow. I'm totally amazed by the sharpness of these blades...I haven't ever felt a new knife that's THIS sharp-or any knife period for that matter. I spent about 3 hours today sharpening my school knives (Wusthof Le Cordon Bleu series), and they still don't match the sharpness of the Kyoceras. They're also incredibly light and extremley well balanced. It's a little unnerving with the pairing knife, because it has a white blade that transmits light...having a blade that you can see through is unsettling. The blade on the Santoku is black, and non transmissive.

I was trying them out on an apple (among other things) when I noticed that the apple wasn't browning (one of Kyocera's claims) at all after being out for about 45minutes or so. So I set up an experiment, I cut some apple with my regular steel blade and then I cut some with the ceramic-time will tell if it's the blade or just a freak apple.

We'll see how well the blades hold their edge under heavy use in the next week or so-that's about how often I need to sharpen my LCB knives (yes, I steel them everytime they come out and when they go back in the bag), because hey, 8 hours a day does that to knives. Supposedly they hold their edge extremley well, but we'll see.

Any other chefs (I know...I'm only a chef student) out there, or people who just like to cook, give these blades a look, they're certainly worth it. But don't plan on replacing your steel knives with these, they aren't made for frozen foods, bone-in meats, deboning, prying, etc. They're pretty much for slicing and dicing.

[spil]

Let's see this technology incorporated into edges... Titanal out, ceramics in

[Jack M]

Let's see this technology incorporated into edges... Titanal out, ceramics in

not flexible enough.

[Justin A.]

not flexible enough.

And it's too brittle, hit a rock and your edge would be toast. The inflexibilty makes for an excellent knife though.

[Gecko]

Not a chef so I can't justify the cost of ceramic knives....then again I bought a number of Japanese knives while I lived there spending way toooo much money on at least 2 of them. I know I prefer carbon steel over stainless it just holds an edge better IMO....BTW what stones do you use for you steel knife sharpening??? Water stones were the other thing I spent too much money on but they are nice.

[Justin A.]

There are some REALLY nice Japaneese knives out there, but it's more or less impossible to find them here amid the crap and gimmicks. Shun is a well known Japanesee brand, one of my friends at school owns one of their Santokus with a Damascus steel blade-I think he said it cost about $250CAD. The ceramics that I picked up today were actually alot cheaper, the pair of them, with 6 knife safes, and 2 silicone grabbers came in under $200. OTOH, the 6" HIP Kyotop that I have on order was $70 more than that by itself...the basic ceramic knives are actually fairly inexpensive as far as high quality knives go.

For sharpening, I picked up a pair of whetstones today at Lee Valley. An 800grit for reshaping and repair and a 1000grit/8000grit combo for finishing. Its been so long since I've sharpened a knife with a stone that I'm actually planning on getting some shims for sharpening . Whetstones are excellent for sharpening, as are diamond stones. The chef at school with the sharpest knives uses diamond stones as a matter of fact. Almost everyone I know that sharpens knives uses diamond stones since they're easier to find and generally are easier to work with.

[kipstar]

Justin

I read your posts and you have the most eccletic interests I have seen for a while...

guns

knives

dogs

fishin'

huntin'

snowboardin'

cool mate.

[Gecko]

OK so I guess the cost of Ceramic knives has gone down...I was gonna say go to the Takashimaya in NYC but you are in Canada so how about look for a Japanese department store to window shop in and then buy the same brand online...I had the advantage of being able to visit a number of small knifemakers and sample there blades. The disadvantage to this is that most use relatively simple magnolia wood handles which last ok for the home but not for a pro; not a problem if the local home depot (ok Seikichu) has replacements but I have yet to see the like here. Santoku's are nice but I'm more a fan of Usuba honcho and Nakiri Honcho knives for veggie's, that's a personal preference though. For fish knives nothing beat japanese and when you have the priveledge of shopping at Tsukigi (the worlds largest fishmarket, a must visit for any food buff) you get a huge choice (ever see a 5' tuna knife???).

BTW I bought 2 of these style of knives just because...my wife still asks why

[Justin A.]

Justin

I read your posts and you have the most eccletic interests I have seen for a while...

guns

knives

dogs

fishin'

huntin'

snowboardin'

cool mate.

You missed Jeeps, Backpacking, Biking (road and mountain), and sailing/kayaking :rolleyes: . Better to be eccletic than eccentric . Just means that I have that many more outlets for my lack of money...

[kipstar]

sailing?

cool!

You know I have the hardbooter equivalent of a keelboat...check it.....

www.shawyachtdesign.com

Shaw 650 (my brother) and Shaw 650 turbo (me).

Good fun ;-) out on the wire on a sportboat that spanks most keelers under about 35-40 feet :-)

What is your ride??

[Justin A.]

My ride? Heh heh...nothing like what you've got. I'm too busy spending money on everthing else to be able to afford anything like that...

I float around on a pre-1972 vintage sunfish that I'm slowly upgrading (VERY slowly) for sunfish reggatas. So far, I have a carbon fiber tiller and rudder. Still the same sail that came with the thing back when it was built, same daggerboard, same mast...probally the same lines on her too. I got her for $200 from a guy on the lake that we go to, it had been sitting on his lawn for like...5 years and it never moved, so we offered him $200 and drove home with a boat . It's not much of a boat, but they sure are fun.

I'm considering upgrading to a Hobie Cat (17') sometime in the future, but right now it's so far off that it's not even visible yet. I've always loved catamarans-especially if they have mounting jigs for a huge spinnaker .

[jnshapiro]

Justin, I'm kinda jealous. I'd love to be able to spend a little money and get a really nice 6 inch blade. I've got an 8 inch wustof something-or-other series and a matching pairing knife. But alas, no money to spend right now.

Enjoy your new toys! And don't cut your finger off

[Erik J]

I just picked up a pair of Kyocera Revolution ceramic knives-the 5.5" Santoku and a 3" Pairing knife...all I can say is wow. I'm totally amazed by the sharpness of these blades...I haven't ever felt a new knife that's THIS sharp-or any knife period for that matter. I spent about 3 hours today sharpening my school knives (Wusthof Le Cordon Bleu series), and they still don't match the sharpness of the Kyoceras. They're also incredibly light and extremley well balanced. It's a little unnerving with the pairing knife, because it has a white blade that transmits light...having a blade that you can see through is unsettling. The blade on the Santoku is black, and non transmissive.

I was trying them out on an apple (among other things) when I noticed that the apple wasn't browning (one of Kyocera's claims) at all after being out for about 45minutes or so. So I set up an experiment, I cut some apple with my regular steel blade and then I cut some with the ceramic-time will tell if it's the blade or just a freak apple.

We'll see how well the blades hold their edge under heavy use in the next week or so-that's about how often I need to sharpen my LCB knives (yes, I steel them everytime they come out and when they go back in the bag), because hey, 8 hours a day does that to knives. Supposedly they hold their edge extremley well, but we'll see.

Any other chefs (I know...I'm only a chef student) out there, or people who just like to cook, give these blades a look, they're certainly worth it. But don't plan on replacing your steel knives with these, they aren't made for frozen foods, bone-in meats, deboning, prying, etc. They're pretty much for slicing and dicing.

Different strokes for different folks.

There's nothing like a razor sharp knife.

For restaurant duty I prefer something that's not as brittle - for the reason that all it takes is one other persons stupid mistake to chip that beautiful blade, i.e. the hurried waiter that grabs the first knife he see's to slice a lemon while you turn your back for 30 seconds to answer the phone or check an order - only to drop your knife on the tile floor. Or the delivery guy that hoists his box of whatever onto your butcher block, knocking your beautiful knife to the floor - again chipping the blade or breaking off the tip. I don't mean to sound negative about ceramics - they're very nice to have and I'm sure you handle your knife just fine, just protect your knives from others. I've seen people mishandle other peoples stuff too often.

So how's school going? What classes are you in these days?

[Justin A.]

Different strokes for different folks.

There's nothing like a razor sharp knife.

For restaurant duty I prefer something that's not as brittle - for the reason that all it takes is one other persons stupid mistake to chip that beautiful blade, i.e. the hurried waiter that grabs the first knife he see's to slice a lemon while you turn your back for 30 seconds to answer the phone or check an order - only to drop your knife on the tile floor. Or the delivery guy that hoists his box of whatever onto your butcher block, knocking your beautiful knife to the floor - again chipping the blade or breaking off the tip. I don't mean to sound negative about ceramics - they're very nice to have and I'm sure you handle your knife just fine, just protect your knives from others. I've seen people mishandle other peoples stuff too often.

So how's school going? What classes are you in these days?

Nobody touches anybody's knife (or any other personal equipment for that matter) in the kitchens at school...it's just a no-no, everybody respects each other's stuff. We don't have to deal with waiters or delivery guys in the practial kitchens. I haven't used them in the kitchen at school yet (I only had Pastry today), but I'm planning on keeping them in blade safes when they're not being activley used. Up against the wall on the prep counter, noplace for them to fall. Plus it keeps them out of the way...I'm very anal about my things, especially things that I make an investment in. If I chip it while I'm cutting, it's ok, I have nobody to blame but myself, but if someone else grabs it to bone a lamb, I'm going to kick them in the shins and get $100 from them (and send the knife back to Kyocera for free to sharpen ).

School's going great, I'm at Le Cordon Bleu in Ottawa, and there aren't any "Classes" persay, just lessons and stuff. I'm doing Le Grand Diplome, which is a Diploma in Pastry and Cusine- more or less a double major. We haven't done anything particularly interesting in Cusine yet, alot of turned vegetables and stuff, but tuesday we made Filets de Sole Dieppoise (english: Dover sole with mussels and shrimp in a creamy white wine sauce) which was pretty good. I'm not big on fish and I even liked it- so did the Chef, and that's what mattered; Chef Benouis is a hardass when it comes to presentation and taste, and he even liked it, so I guess I did something right. I'm enjoying the pastry alot, even if my heart and belly aren't. Today's lesson was Black Forest Cake- Genoise cut into 3rds, soaked with Kirsch Syrup ( ) and filled/finished with Chantilly cream . It was pretty good, everybody thinks it looks amazing except for me, because I saw Chef Ludwig's cake and it makes mine look like it was made by a chef student (duh ).

I have a picture of the Piscalladiere that I made a week ago or so, I think my plating came out pretty good. Chef loved it too, so I put it in the win collumn. I'll see if I can find that picture.

Edit: here's the picture:

In retrospect, I wouldn't have made as many, or have placed fewer Olive flowers on the plate, and probally used slightly less parsley.

Here's my friend's plating of the same dish, I think he left too much white plate, but other than that I think it's pretty good. Chef wanted him to plate more carrots, and leave less of the plate bare since it makes the portion look smaller. The little pile that you see in behind the slice is some sauteed onions that he did up as a garnish and to complement the Pisacalladiere Explanation of the dish: it's the ancestor to the Pizza as we know it(NOT a pizza)-it's more or less a pizza dough with no sauce on top, no cheese. It's topped with sauteed onions, anchovies, and olives. It's a dish from Mediteranian (sp?) France from a long time ago- I think they said it was like...17th/18th century. It's good if you like Onions, anchovies, and olives.

[bartron]

There are some REALLY nice Japaneese knives out there, but it's more or less impossible to find them here amid the crap and gimmicks. Shun is a well known Japanesee brand, one of my friends at school owns one of their Santokus with a Damascus steel blade-I think he said it cost about $250CAD.

I bought a Glestain Santoku (Japanese -- see photo below) about 6 months ago. I ordered it straight from Japan ( http://www.JapaneseChefsKnife.Com ). I'm very happy with it. It's great for slicing. Cucumbers, tomatoes, et al never stick to the blade.

I've only seen a couple of places in Montreal that sell Japanese knives. The only one that sells a significant amount of them is Paul's Finest (http://www.paulsfinest.com/ ).

For sharpening, I picked up a pair of whetstones today at Lee Valley. An 800grit for reshaping and repair and a 1000grit/8000grit combo for finishing. Its been so long since I've sharpened a knife with a stone that I'm actually planning on getting some shims for sharpening . Whetstones are excellent for sharpening, as are diamond stones. The chef at school with the sharpest knives uses diamond stones as a matter of fact. Almost everyone I know that sharpens knives uses diamond stones since they're easier to find and generally are easier to work with.

Thanks for the tip. I started looking at whetstones, but didn't know what to look for. I've been using a Lansky diamond sharpening system ( http://lansky.com/products/systems/diamond2.html ). It works great with my Henckel's, but the clamp won't hold my Glestain. I tried putting the sharpening stones in a vice and using it as a whetstone, but that did a horrible job -- I should say, I did a horrible job. :) I now have scratches all over the face of the blade. I'll bring it to a pro and get them to fix it up a bit. Then I'll run out and get a whetstone and some shims. :)

'later...

[bartron]

but if someone else grabs it to bone a lamb, I'm going to kick them in the shins and get $100 from them (and send the knife back to Kyocera for free to sharpen ).

:lol:

School's going great, I'm at Le Cordon Bleu in Ottawa, and there aren't any "Classes" persay, just lessons and stuff. I'm doing Le Grand Diplome, which is a Diploma in Pastry and Cusine- more or less a double major. We haven't done anything particularly interesting in Cusine yet, alot of turned vegetables and stuff,

How long is that program ? Did you guys start with food safety and such ? I took a few general-public courses at l'Institut de Tourisme et D'Hotelerie here in Montreal. They seemed to take a more academic approach in their full-time programs, starting you off with theory, food safety, etc.

I'm looking into studying to be a pastry chef. I'm dying to start my own business. Move to a developing town and start a tea shop or cake decorating business or maybe just a funky pastry shop.

I'm enjoying the pastry alot, even if my heart and belly aren't. Today's lesson was Black Forest Cake- Genoise cut into 3rds, soaked with Kirsch Syrup ( ) and filled/finished with Chantilly cream .

drool, drool, drool. You should check out the photos in the book The Art Of Cake or The Professional Pastry Chef: Fundamentals of Baking and Pastry. You'll gain weight just by looking at them.

it makes mine look like it was made by a chef student (duh ).

Who would have expected that ? :)

I have a picture of the Piscalladiere that I made a week ago or so, I think my plating came out pretty good. Chef loved it too, so I put it in the win collumn. I'll see if I can find that picture.

In retrospect, I wouldn't have made as many, or have placed fewer Olive flowers on the plate, and probally used slightly less parsley.

Looks delicious ! I agree with putting less olive flowers. But then again, classic tapanade is waaaaay to intense for me.

'later...

[Gecko]

The Takishimayia (Japanese department store) in the Yokohama trainstation had a knife polisher who worked the kitchen/knife section of the store. I bought my water stones from him in addition to learning how to sharpen some of my different knives. The method I use it to place the stone on a towel in a rectangular Pyrex brownie pan filled with water the stone stays wet and the counter stays clean. A lot different than the way my grandfather taught me with oil stones but the motion for sharpening and holding a blade was surprisingly similar. I've been freehand sharpening edges for 30 years...the only thing I really don't like is reshaping a knife shoulder and thats only because of the time involved.

Jusin the comment about others using your knives isn't so much for now, it's for later when you are actually working. I did prep work in a restaurant years ago and had a few knives ruined but people

[Justin A.]

:lol:

How long is that program ? Did you guys start with food safety and such ?

Looks delicious ! I agree with putting less olive flowers. But then again, classic tapanade is waaaaay to intense for me.

'later...

The program is 9 months for the Pastry or Cusine Diploma, or 18 months for Le Grand Diplome (unless you like self abuse and choose to do it in 9 months like me )...We had our food safety lecture yesterday, but pretty much everything is learned by example in demo and by being yelled at by the chefs in the kitchen.

Here's my latest creation: a Christmas Log. I'm particularly proud of the Pointsettia, the picture doesn't do it justice at all :( ...it's alot nicer than the picture shows.

[bartron]

The program is 9 months for the Pastry or Cusine Diploma, or 18 months for Le Grand Diplome (unless you like self abuse and choose to do it in 9 months like me )...

I've been checking out the schools in Vancouver. The pastry programs last between 6-10 months, depending on the school.

...and by being yelled at by the chefs in the kitchen.

just like you were working at a resto :lol: I wonder if it's like that in bakeries and pastry shops. Pastry chefs seem much quieter and introverted.

Here's my latest creation: a Christmas Log. I'm particularly proud of the Pointsettia, the picture doesn't do it justice at all :( ...it's alot nicer than the picture shows.

Nice ! I take it the mushrooms are meringue ? Did you get the black spots by torching it with a handheld torch or a broiler/salamander ?

'later...

[Justin A.]

Yep, the 'shrooms are meringue, but we didn't make them yesterday....we've made them in the past, but that's all we did that day- you make the from swiss meringue which is more or less impossible to make by hand and Basic students aren't allowed to use the mixers..."too much technology" :rolleyes: . So, after whipping the meringue for about 45 minutes by hand, then you need to pipe it (easy) and bake it for about 4-5 hours...not really a "do this AND this" kinda thing. The chef made the mushrooms over two days for us, but everything else that you see is 100% handmade by moi :D . Thanks for the kind words about it. The black spots are actually brown, they're cocoa powder that was dusted on them, a torch would be bigger scorches, and the salamander would make it a very even browning over the whole top. Good luck with the schools in vancouver! I hope you enjoy it!

[C5 Golfer]

Odd -- after viewing several web sites on kitchen knives because of this post - not buying - just window shopping-- I get 1-3 Culinary based junk emails a day.

[LeeW]

mmm, dont mean to chime in and intrude myself, but uhm, i work int he kitchen (not really my prime choice but needed to stay in the Vail system so I can transfer to Lift Electrical dept if I get offered within a week or two). Been learning few things here and there at the kitchen. mostly food prep. my boss would challenge me to cut a bunch of onions within 13 minutes. and frankly, i find it impossible for me at this stage. after watching him, boy is he fast, and it was nice to "remember" the anime series of cooking by usin' cat's paw, which is really useful. i dont wanna cut my finger. strangely, i sliced my thumb a little bit, and didnt even feel it, til i saw blood on the onion. wow.

anyways, speaking of knives, im real arseholeish about it with roomies. roommates just -DONT- know how to take care of it. one of 'em broke one of my sushi knife (nothing spectacular, fortunately) without telling me, and when i found it broken, i got royally pissed big time. every time i let other people use my knives, they're just bad at handling with them. -sigh-

so since then, ive been "locking" up my knives. This current roommate wouldnt even touch my knives, which im grateful for.

looking into investing in good knives, but dunno if I can afford it since Im already spending too much money on motorcyle racing. -sigh-

well, good post! wish you best of luck, Justin! And the other prospective student out in Vancouver, too.

the last dude who posted about spam mail, thanks for the note. ain't gonna go there, yet. might look around at the bookstore, and see what i can find.