semi-snowboard-ish question...

[pebu]

So in the interest of cobbing up some new fangled toys to go down the hill on, what I basically want to do is attatch a board or something similar that spans the two sets of inserts. (I don't really want to screw things right to the deck...) Are there any sort of structural issues that would go along with something like this? I know it would make it a hell of alot more stiff, but this mostly isn't an issue for a majority of the toys I've got imagined. Would there be ways (like providing slots instead of just holes in the front and/or back) that would allow the board to flex more naturally? I have an old board that if I do end up making something I'd try it on first, so I don't WANT to break it, but if I do it's definately not the end of the world. So if anybody has any input, lemme know. Thanks

Ben

[V*L*A*D]

I missed something here....

what are you saying?

[Pow]

The Hangl-Spirig System

^is this what you wanted?

[pebu]

Yeah, similar to that. Basically I want to take a piece of plywood about 19cm wide (width of the board) and 25 or 30 cm long (to span the inserts). I'll connect it to the board using the inserts (drill through the plywood to meet up with the inserts with probably a flathead M6). I want it bolted down somehow both front and back to avoid lifting up on one end and stripping or pulling the inserts out but one or the other sets of the holes (in the plywood) could be slots if necessary. I guess they couldn't be flatheads if they're going to be going into slots, but that's a minor detail. This way I'll have a huge area that I can just screw screws or lag bolts into to put various decks or bindings or handles or seats or whatever else I can think of on there, and not have to worry about screwing something right down into my snowboard deck. I was just looking for some opinions on what this might do to the board structurally and what to watch out for.

Ps, keep in mind, you don't have to dumb things down too much for me, I'm no physics major (engineer, actually) but I am fairly mechanically inclined.

Thanks all.

[V*L*A*D]

Yeah, similar to that. Basically I want to take a piece of plywood about 19cm wide (width of the board) and 25 or 30 cm long (to span the inserts). I'll connect it to the board using the inserts (drill through the plywood to meet up with the inserts with probably a flathead M6). I want it bolted down somehow both front and back to avoid lifting up on one end and stripping or pulling the inserts out but one or the other sets of the holes (in the plywood) could be slots if necessary. I guess they couldn't be flatheads if they're going to be going into slots, but that's a minor detail. This way I'll have a huge area that I can just screw screws or lag bolts into to put various decks or bindings or handles or seats or whatever else I can think of on there, and not have to worry about screwing something right down into my snowboard deck. I was just looking for some opinions on what this might do to the board structurally and what to watch out for.

Ps, keep in mind, you don't have to dumb things down too much for me, I'm no physics major (engineer, actually) but I am fairly mechanically inclined.

Thanks all.

...based on the intel you've posted...you want to build a snowboard?

[pebu]

...based on the intel you've posted...you want to build a snowboard?

Ha.. No. I basically want to use the snowboard for the slideability and the edges. I'll have to draw something up tomorrow (at work ) and maybe that'll show it a little better. It'll be a crude solid model, but hopefully it'll explain a little better. I've never been one for words, but I can sketch stuff up and that's how I explain stuff the best I think.

Edit, maybe I can explain it simpler..

I want to attach a piece of plywood to the top of my snowboard so I don't have to make holes in my snowboard.

[jnshapiro]

It might help to know what problem or issue you are trying to solve.

[bjvircks]

Sounds like you are trying to build an adapter plate that attaches to a snowboard. The adapter plate fastens to the existing insert pattern. The adapter plate will allow you bolt on whatever hair brained items comes to mind like bindings, seats, outriggers, whatever. There... was that so hard to say?

[pebu]

I thought that's what I did say, but yes, that's exactly what I'm looking to build.

[V*L*A*D]

just ride

[pebu]

Ok, so here are some crude (I'm talkin 15 minutes, here...) drawings of what I'm talking about.

The dimensions are just random dimensions from out of my head for the most part, but note that the holes in the plywood line up with the inserts. Thats how I would attach.

It's kind of sounding like nobody really knows how it's gonna react (with the exception of a select few I'm sure) so I guess I'm just gonna do it and I'll report back, possibly with a few pictures of my newfangled contraptions. I just wish there was some snow so I could test them out. Oh well...

[jnshapiro]

Sounds like you are trying to build an adapter plate that attaches to a snowboard. The adapter plate fastens to the existing insert pattern. The adapter plate will allow you bolt on whatever hair brained items comes to mind like bindings, seats, outriggers, whatever. There... was that so hard to say?

That makes a little more sense! Not sure what I have for suggestions. Make sure that whatever you screw into the inserts is tight, and tight to the board. Otherwise you'll pull them out. Don't ask me how I know

[V*L*A*D]

Ok, so here are some crude (I'm talkin 15 minutes, here...) drawings of what I'm talking about.

The dimensions are just random dimensions from out of my head for the most part, but note that the holes in the plywood line up with the inserts. Thats how I would attach.

It's kind of sounding like nobody really knows how it's gonna react (with the exception of a select few I'm sure) so I guess I'm just gonna do it and I'll report back, possibly with a few pictures of my newfangled contraptions. I just wish there was some snow so I could test them out. Oh well...

This noble experiment reminds me of a situation which presented itself int he mid-1980s....

A product was patented and so-devised, in the interest of damping, which was a foot-long piece of aluminum and rubber, to which one's ski bindings would mount, and which was then mounted to each ski.

damping results aside, the athletes who tested the "derbyflex" found that they were turning (pun intended) much better course times, and carving rounder turns: the derbyflex had the inadvertant 'side" effect of increasing the athlete's mechanical advantage of leverage, by narrowing the length gap between the upper and lower leg- less knee or hip angulation yielded more edging.

shortly thereafter, many ski and binding sompanies began production of 'risers" (they avoided patent issues by simply avoiding touting of damping adavantges, and by avoiding mfg. of a long rubber laminate), and today there are virtually no major alpine ski/binding manufacturers who eschew risers.

In the early 1990s, I was part of an R&D project to ascertain whether or not the same such mechanical advantage might help alpine snowboarders-

frankly, the results were vague, at best.

you may find that you (again, inadvertantly, a la derbyflex) you effect unintended advantages through the simple mechanical advantage of "lengthening" the shorter (lower) half-leg.

If nothing else, you'll also be opening yourself up to R&D of a floating binding mountage, which allows for increased flex underfoot, esp. were you to 'long-slot' the screws which interface your platform to your deck.....

keep this posted, and consider a patent search for precedence, while you're at it.

OK- Now I have to step out for the day to begin field-surveying for endangered turtles...

-Jay

[bjvircks]

I'm too am interested in how this plays out. There is a sign on one of our labs... "those who say it cannot be done- get out of the way of us DOING IT"

I'd like to not impose my paradigms on your innovation process by telling you what works and what does not. Just thrash around and see what happens! Good luck and have fun.

[pebu]

Bjvircks, if it's something that will prevent my taking the same snowboard and turning it into a bench you would let me know, right? My biggest concern (besides my own safety of course) would be destroying the board, but if it doesn't destroy the board, and better yet, if it works well, I might just make something up for one of my alpine boards for increased carvability of said innovation.

The rubber in between definately sounds like a good idea, if nothing else just to limit the scratching of the topsheet. Possibly some cloth of some sort. We'll see. But it sounds like I don't have any objections, so I'll go forth with it. It'll be a while before it's done. I've got alot of other crap that should come before that...

[NMU Alpine Boarder]

Silly Techies always taking something simple and complicating it

Ingenuity has to start somewhere though

One thing I see as a problem though:

If you were to use plywood, I would think that you would create a "dead" spot in the center of the board between the inserts since the plywood wouldn't flex as much as the tip and tail. I would think that flexier material would be needed... Maybe use a softer piece of lumber like a pine 1x6 maybe?

[D-Sub]

its gonna have to be able to slide, too, I believe. if you have something stiff on the inside of a radius...when it bends...its gotta be able to slide. look at the way a conshox mounts.

I still dont get WHY you want to do this :)

[pebu]

Yeah, I thought of that. Another couple considerations though are cost and pull-out strength (both from the board-plywood and the plywood-to-contraption connection). I'll have to experiment with different boards and slots and whatnot. IF nothing else, I might end up with a good pow board... The board is already a noodle as it is, getting stiff in the middle would help it. :D

[bjvircks]

you would let me know, right?

I'm not certain anyone here is fully qualified to make a determination of genius vs crazy. Just have at it. Sometimes the best lessons are only learned by breaking things.

[V*L*A*D]

the need for the 'floater' to 'slide' above the deck is why i'd mentioned slotted holes for the associated fasteners.

don't monkey around with plywood- just use aluminum.

if there's no sliding occurring (flex under COM) you run the likely risk of simply snapping the board where the floater (or, upper-deck, a sopposed to steerage:D ) ends above it.

what, exactly, are you trying to accomplish/prove/disprove, if anything?

:D

[Dr D]

whatever you build will have an effect on the flex pattern of the board. on some boards this would be a good thing:lol: On others you would render them nearly unridable. the boards out there that are engineered for devices like this are soft in the middle and the plate completes the flex pattern. I would suggest that the conshox falls into this category. the benefits would reduce considerable if you put it on a board that was already quite stiff.

I would suggest you tailor the size to emulate the proper stance width for the board rather than using all of the inserts available. if it likes a narrow stance then use those points and vice versa. you will have less effect on the flex pattern that way. I would also use aluminum it'll slide on the slots easier and you won't have to figure the plywood flex into the equation. It'll also hold whatever you attach to it better.

[philfell]

Call Tinkler.