[The next step… (beginner help)]

Extension and Retraction are fine names, and if they get your point across then great. However I think they're not specific enough because there is a third type of turn transition that is a blend of the two.

Baka has it right on. Cross-through transitions are usually used in medium and long radius carves where you're getting low to the snow. At the transition, you have nowhere to go but up. But rather than going <i>all the way up</i>, as in a cross-over or extension transition, you only go up far enough to be able to make the rest of the transition using a cross-under or retraction move.

The picture of the guy in the orange shows this, as you can see his head rising and falling, yet he is clearly retracting his legs at the middle of the transition.

Admittedly this is nitpicking a little bit, because when you are doing cross-through turns, it feels quite similar to cross-under, just that you're doing it on med/long radius carves. In fact, I'd say cross-through is mostly just cross-under <i>applied</i> to m/l radius carves.

But I would say that a <i>pure</i> cross-under transition is what happens in quick fall-line carves, where your head stays fairly level, you face downhill*, and your board is carving back and forth underneath you. Certainly this is a different technique than cross-through, so the two should have their own names, no?

Because 'cross through' requires a simultaneous movement of both the CM and the base of support, I think it's not surprising that many riders new to this maneuver find it difficult to understand and apply.

No argument there, it is an advanced maneuver. One needs to master cross over and cross under first before they can blend the two. When I finally understood cross through, it opened a door to another level for me. I suggested it for this dude because he said he had been carving on his soft gear already. He should probably be patient with himself learning cross-through.

-Jack

(*as opposed to larger radius cross-through where you maintain your body alignment with the board as it turns - either facing the nose or facing your binding angles depending on preference.)

[The next step… (beginner help)]

Originally posted by corey_dyck

I was able to achieve this, but not so stylishly!

Personally I have a bit of a problem with that movie. Notice that the guy rotates his upper body towards the toe edge on toeside carves and towards the nose on heelside. His trailing hand disappears behind him on toeside, and he swings his front hand back and forth across the board. In my opinion this is unnecessary wasted motion. If it helps him balance that's fine for him, he is already an expert carver with a unique style. But I think it is unhelpful to put that video on a newbie page like that because it confuses the issue. You don't need to swivel at the waist to carve well. In fact, I believe this maneuver actually decreases your balance. How is one supposed to learn to carve when one is simultaneously trying to swivel at the waist because somebody makes it look stylish? I don't know if that's what you were doing, but that's just my thoughts on the video. Maintaining your body alignment with the board throughout the carve is key for maintaining strong balance in medium to large radius carves.

I have to go home now, but I'll answer your other questions tomorrow.

In the mean time, I would say that you would benefit from the cross-through technique. Commit this picture to memory, it is a great example of it. (picture by boostertwo)

-Jack

[check these out for getting low?]

These promote reaching for the snow, a bad habit. If you're properly angulated and you get low enough to lightly brush your hand along the snow, that's not a big deal. But bending over at the waist and <i>trying</i> to touch the snow like this guy puts you in an unbalanced position.

[Practice Drills]

I love these sequences. This one of the dude in orange is a perfect example of what I would call a cross-through turn.

-Jack

[What Soft boot set up do you ride???]

My soft setup, and a question:

'97 Burton Custom 164

Burton freestyle bindings (I forget which) with the "One" strap (Burton's old half-assed attempt at a Flow type binding)

Old Burton Ranger boots, which sucked before I put orthotics and gel heel pads in them. Now they're fine. They were the stiffest B-boot of the day.

This setup pretty much sucks for carving, but is pretty good for the rare NE powder day, spring days, rock days, and trees. I can't justify upgrading soft equipment until it disintigrates. My last pair of softboots were '89 Burton Comp boots.

My question is: do softboot step-in systems actually work? I have a hard time believing it because I have to crank my strap bindings down so tight to get any performance out of them, I can't imagine being able to get the same tightness/performance out of SI's.

Also, I have a good friend who was an engineer at Burton and I asked him why he didn't ride their SI's. His answer: "Dude... they suck. They just suck. They will never match the performance of straps."

Do any pro's use SI's?

-Jack

[Thermoflex for Burton Fire?]

why, right here of course!

yeah, get the same size.

-Jack

[freecarving?]

carving is massaging the soul with the forces of nature.

[Practice Drills]

Originally posted by eddie

Is that for learning to stay above your board and/or relying on the bottom of your feet, not the boot?

Yes, it is a balance drill. Not that you should be able to carve your best without the support from your boots, but it is a good thing to try.

I inadvertently used that (face-the-nose) technique from reading articles, looking at pictures, and watching videos and would agree that it is the best concept for a new carver to focus on. It worked well for me but as I progressed I found some disadvantages as I started to ride more aggressively.

When I started to ride the steepest groomed runs on the resort I found, along with the combination of board and binding issues, I tended to have counter rotation problems and I was applying pressure to the inside edge of my heal on the back foot rather than applying pressue to a heal that was flat to the bottom of the boot. Thus, the result of my error was problems holding the carve at the apex of the turn. During this stage I went back and read "Carving the Steeps" and with a little direction from a friend I made a transition to something more of a racing style which in turn solved my problem. I guess my question is how or when do recognize that this adjustment in riding technique is needed? Or, since I am so new to this, would this be a problem for everyone that learned from "facing the nose" technique?

Not necessarily. Different techniques work for different people. It just so happens that facing the nose has always worked well for me, so I've stuck with it. However as you say, I think it is a good technique to teach newbies who are struggling with maintaining body alignment throughout a carve. It is a common newbie flaw to simply face downhill on heelside, and to bend at the waist towards the snow on toeside. Telling a newbie to face their binding angles usually isn't enough to break these habits. I think it is important to learn to face the nose, and then if your carving plateaus again, you can then start to experiment with other alignments.

Also, it sounds like you would benefit from some custom footbeds if you have to consciously fight foot-roll inside your boot. That's not to say that your feet are messed up, even the most average foot will benefit hugely from orthotics. I consider them mandatory equipment.

-Jack

[Practice Drills]

Originally posted by Lowell Hart

1. Hangers: Traverse a wide slope alternately engaging the uphill and downhill edge. Rip a big arc on the side and repeat on the other edge. This requires a rider to apply knee and ankle angulation to engage and release the downhill edge, and to make larger hip angulation/inclination moves when cutting a hard turn at the trail's edge.

[/b]

Wow, Lowell Hart is here! Lowell, I took my first snowboarding lesson from your crew in 88 at Stowe. You had the wisdom to exchange the Elite 135 the rental shop had given me with an Elite 150.

Anyway, "hangers" is what I was trying to describe in my post as "triple turns". Thanks for the tips.

-Jack

[How does Volkl RT GS compare to Prior 4x4?]

Compare the effective edge length, and sidecut radius. Shorter radius = tighter turns and lower top speed.

[Practice Drills]

(from JohnSch in the qualifications thread) I do have a sort-of related question, though, for anyone with a racing background. Just as skiers have lots of goofy drills to learn things like riding the inside ski...I'm sure there must be some drills strong riders can do, safely in a resort environment, for developing technique. Open to any suggestions!

I have an instructing background, not a racing background, but here are some drills that have helped me very much. This is going to be my next technique article, so I'll briefly summarize them here:

Heelside carves: rear hand grabbing front boot cuff. Or rear elbow on front knee. Get low by bending more at your knees, less at your waist.

Toeside carves: front hand grabbing rear boot cuff, arm going behind your butt (not between your legs!). Again, knees more than waist.

Bamboo: "borrow" a bamboo pole and ride with it. (hold it with your fingers only - don't wrap your thumb around it, you can sprain your thumb if you do and fall) At all times while carving, keep the bamboo pole perpendicular to your board, and level to the snow. This is trickier than it sounds; it's good to have someone watch and tell you if you were actually doing it.

Note that the above drills work on the "face the nose" technique that I prefer. Many racers use this (see picture of JJA in the World Cup Watch) and many racers face their binding angles like Klug. Many will use both techniques in the same run. Either way is fine, but for me facing the nose made a breakthrough in my carving.

Triple turns: between each carve, instead of making just one edge change, make three quick cross-under ones in a row as you traverse the trail. (i.e.: make a regular gs carve on left edge, then in the transition quickly go right edge, left edge, right edge) If you have room, go for five.

Try riding with your boots in walk mode. Try with your boots in walk mode and unbuckled.

Try to eurocarve fakie. Do this by making a toeside carve, and in the transition spin 180 and make another toeside carve going backwards. (use caution! only on well groomed uncrowded slopes!) These two drills work on your balance skills.

Heads up: just before the finish of one carve, before changing edges, turn your head and pick a spot on the other side of the trail to aim for(a tree, pole, snowgun, guy writing his name in the snow, etc). Make the edge change and the next carve all while looking at this spot.

I'll try to think of some more. Racers, jump in here.

-Jack

[Heel side skid-out]

check it out on the front page of this site.

[Questions re: pls help & advise w/ my 1st hardboot setup]

Originally posted by Barry

Hi Jack and Chris,

Yes, I'm familiar with the Welcome center. I read most of the articles carefully and did some other checking around and it appears (and I could very well be wrong here) that some of the boards mentioned are outdated.

That is true. That particular article needs some sprucing up.

F2's site doesn't specifically recommend a hardboot setup for either of the

Eliminator models (so I wasn't sure about that one).

<i>Any</i> quality board can be used with hardboots.

I was looking at Prior 4WD...suitable for a 1st Alpine board? Could I go with a freecarve?

The 4WD is an excellent choice for a first alpine board. Just to clarify, it is an "all mountain carving board". Sometimes people call them freecarve boards. This is sort of true because they are great for freecarving, but that doesn't tell the whole story. There are freecarve boards such as the Donek FC and Coiler Pure Carve, that are neither race boards nor all mountain carvers. They are shaped like raceboards but usually have a different flex and shorter sidecut radius.

Other than some cheap boots, I didn't really the Package deals you mentioned- pls point me to them. Thx.

I must have been thinking of last year's deals. Oops.

An article said this re: freecarves: "These are good choices for people who want to get into carving and can afford two whole setups." What exactly does "2 whole setups" mean? 2 complete Alpine setups?

I meant that if you can afford the opportunity cost of not selling your existing gear, then you can take a closer look at freecarve boards (freecarve meaning not all-mtn). That way you'll have 2 setups - your existing setup and a dedicated carving setup. If you are like many who have to sell their existing gear to afford purchasing new gear, an all-mtn carver is the best way to go because then you're keeping more all-mtn performance. Unless of course, you don't care about that.

One of the articles mentioned trying an alpine setup on my current board (freeride)- this will not hurt the board in any way?

Your BMC should be able to handle it just fine.

-Jack

[Questions re: pls help & advise w/ my 1st hardboot setup]

First, have you seen the Welcome Center here?

For your first alpine board, getting a board similar in length to your existing board is fine, just don't go any shorter. Don't be afraid to go ~5cm longer. Or go 10cm if you are good at carving your soft gear and want to go faster. If not, don't go too much longer because you don't want the length of the board to inhibit you.

Personally I wouldn't spend less than $100 on a used board. But if you're just looking to test the waters and aren't sure if this is the sport for you, a $50 deck might do that for you. Just be ready to replace it as soon as you get off the green circles.

Bomber has some package deals for new equipment if you want to spend a bit more.

Are you good enough? See if you can do the Norm drill on your soft gear. If you can do that and carve thin lines on both left and right turns, all the way around the carve, you're probably ready.

The difference between hard & soft. Yeah, they're two different animals, but if you can get into the mindset that you're learning a new dimension of this sport, and not try to use softboot technique (standing and facing sideways) on your hardboot setup, you should do well. That is, don't fight the equipment or the new alignment.

Let us know how it goes.

-Jack

[World Cup on TV]

the results of this event are here.

[Help w\ board recomendations]

How to Buy an Alpine Snowboard

The Rise and Fall of the Holy Asymmetric Empire

It also matters how tall you are, but since you are just getting back into the sport I wouldn't go over 180. Prior makes a nice 175 with an 11.9m radius. They can probably work with you on selecting a stiffer core if you want, and you don't mind waiting for them to build you a board. Other standard board recommendations here are Donek, Coiler, F2, Volkl....

[new to carving]

and in general, check out the Welcome Center

[OK, so who do you LOVE on the hill?]

my wife - a rockin' skier.

other carvers (regardless of equipment), and people who respect/encourage/compliment carvers.

a good telemarker jamming in the moguls.

nice lifties.

people who wear funny stuff in the spring.

too many others I'm forgetting at the moment.

[Questions on the new TD2 here]

Yep, aluminum. The only non metal part of the binding is the e-ring.

[Stance setup]

If those are truly your only options (I thought the Burton 3D pattern was supposed to be more versatile), I'd say #3 just as long as you have cant disks to use on both feet. 18.25" is too narrow for a five-elevener imo, and you don't want to be 23mm forward on a 169. You could get away with that on a 185, but not a 169. But definitely experiment.

Welcome!

-Jack

[If you Could........]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill

Once you've added a third strap and are in the stiffest soft boots you can find, what exactly about that setup is an improvement over a set of softish hard boots? I'm not asking rhetorically, I'd like to know. You can't bend your ankles sideways anymore to tweak anything, you're wrestling with 3 straps at the top and bottom of every lift and all for a reduced level of performance. Is there something in there I'm missing?

I'd say you're missing nothing - you've nailed it right on the head.

-Jack

[If you Could........]

Originally posted by Doug M

I have some thoughts on why it can carve so hard for a soft setup and I would like to bounce it off some of you to see if you agree or disagree.I am not totally sure myself but here it goes.

When we carve it is very important to be able to get the board to a very high angle off the snow in as short of time period as possible.As we make a transistion from heal to toe we try to duplicate this as quick as possible on the opposite edge While keeping body posistion.....Cross over, cross under.Euro.....

Once the board is at that high angle I notice that the amount of pressure on the boot seems to lesson compared to the act of actually getting it up on edge.Almost as if you direct more pressure to the center of the board during the carve where boot stiffness is less important.But you still need a certain level of boot stiffness in order to make the transistion fast and hard.I am sure

someone might be able to prove or dissprove what I noticed using physics.

I find that at high speed, I really need to pressure the nose of the board at the turn initiation. If you don't want to take my word for it, Mark Fawcett wrote an article about the importance of this for Snowboard Life a few years ago. Softboots/bindings just don't have the lateral support for this and other maneuvers.

I am sorry this post seems to have caused a bit of a problem.I meant it to be fun,figure out what other riders are thinking out there,And bounce some Ideas off people.It's all Good.

Not at all Doug, it's a great thread, very interesting. If you're having fun on a particular setup, that's great, and people need to hear it.

-Jack

[I LOVE THIS FORUM!!! Aggression??? Checkered Pigs oh my!]

Cool! Love the handle - mahatmaBlondie, LOL. Just don't be scared off by the male/female ratio here! Check out Prior and Coiler in addition to Donek. Any one of those three will also make you a custom deck if you don't see a size you like. Volkls also have some tight sidecuts and are sweet rides.

-Jack

[heelside turn]

I think it's only natural to prefer one turn over the other. But it doesn't have to be a problem. I think my heelside is a little stronger. What do you do on toeside? When I feel like my toeside is slipping, I try to exaggerate the "pencil pinching" and hip drop, keeping my shoulders square to the board and level to the hill.

[If you Could........]

Originally posted by eddie

But, you did infer that I was a terminal intermediate, and, this post was not a technical discussion. As you can see from Doug's last post he is fustrated that everyone has taken the technical line.

Okay, then I apologize for inferring that you are a terminal intermediate. Friends?

Back on topic now... I would say that the original question was somewhat technical in nature, unless it was only supposed to be a poll, because how are you supposed to answer without getting a little technical? I happen to think the question is - what's the right term here, trivial? Because I don't believe any softboot setup will ever match the carving performance of a hardboot setup. If there was such a thing, of course, who wouldn't use it?

-Jack