docrob

Last thoughts perhaps:<O:p></O:p> ------------------------<O:p></O:p> Eardragger… <O:p></O:p> I realised about the hardboots and plates being to aim for/perfection for carving well before the OP, but being a relatively inexperienced softbooter, only used to +15/-15 on freeride boards, I figured it might be better to transition into true alpine hardbooting via fairly benign angles with softboots. But…I didn’t want to commit to such gear unless at a later date, once into hardbooting, I couldn’t also use the same soft setup with slightly higher angles if necessary; say up to 35/20 for a hybrid freeride/freecarving setup on one of the boards designed for this flexibility with soft boots (e.g. dual)…which EC hardbooters in Europe seem to find very worthwhile for a whole mountain day with varied terrain including groom.<O:p></O:p> ---------------------<O:p></O:p> Rob, Bob et al…<O:p></O:p> <O:p> </O:p> For the learning carving soft setup<O:p></O:p> Hows about, say, about 15 rear, and 25-30 at the front :<O:p></O:p> -Edgerisers (dot com)<O:p></O:p> -Malamutes with modern winged binding (Binding suitability/benefits of this stiffer boot over Northwave legend...advice/speculation required-see below)<O:p></O:p> -2008 Palmer Pulse 162<O:p></O:p> <O:p> </O:p> You said:<O:p></O:p> “I have ridden alot of what is out there in the softboot world and the only way to control them at high angles is to have winged highbacks or a third strap.”(Rob Stevens)<O:p></O:p> <O:p> </O:p> “I'm pretty firm in not thinking wings should be a consideration on softboot bindings as most highbacks you can rotate a fair amount anyway. if you need the wings you should be looking into hard boots. same thing with a 3rd strap.” (Bobdea)<O:p></O:p> <O:p> </O:p> (Although, perhaps Bob wasn’t considering there someone only talking about initial learning stage here; just getting the hang of carving with slightly larger angles than for freeride)<O:p></O:p> <O:p> </O:p> I’m attracted to a highback with the option to also rotate it, because they are available on fully up to date bindings (better design perhaps, and warranty), and even have cant adjustment.<O:p></O:p> The bindings also offer more flexibility and less weight than the Cantek FR2 Evo; which I’m thinking might be a better option on e.g. a Swoard Dual for a more experienced carver, able to carve and freeride on the one setup in softboots. For mixed all-mountain sessions.<O:p></O:p> <O:p> </O:p> I also remember Rob recommending a light binding for learning, which these winged highbacks are, and am not attracted to the third strap in situ to flap around when not in use, and also since these are attached to older products.<O:p></O:p> The problem with the current Burton highback<ST1:p</ST1:p is it's Burton(3 hole),<O:p></O:p> And maybe, even with a 4<SUP>th</SUP> drilled hole, the load spread wouldn’t be as good as 4 attachments spot on for the inserts.<O:p></O:p> Also, I’m sure if they have the additional rotation or cant options.<O:p></O:p> <O:p> </O:p> I am very curious about the Technine 2010/11 Mens Pro Series Team Pro and Blue Magoon; with the “scrub hook highback” wings only on the side they’d be needed on, cant adjustment and additional rotational option. (Links below).<O:p></O:p> <O:p> </O:p> While it’s not very clear how the models differ, apart from the girly colours to make a bloke want to boke (Is “urban crusher” a feature of the binding for example, or the category that both above models fit into, or meaningless hype to impress school kids?)<O:p></O:p> <O:p> </O:p> So, what do you think folks?; one of these asymetric winged jobbies, or Flow (NXT FRX, 08/09 M11, or Eleven 2007) Liking stepin! <O:phttp://business.transworld.net/30129/snow/technine-201011-binding-preview/ <O:p></O:p> <O:p</O:p http://www.technine.com/2010/bindingtech.html<O:p></O:p> <O:pUrsle; well I'm still learning!

Here's the launchpoint; scary when it's rough!

Maybe you were one of the occasional riders I saw on Alpine. Didn't notice the guinness; tend to sit outside with a coffee flask and sandwiches! Schlitz Bull Ice was the closest equivalent I could find to my european tipple, and also some "monkey" beer (?) was more of a tasty real ale...quite strong too!. Yeah, I 'mpining for Crete. Usually spend 3 weeks in August. Discovered an exciting and isolated wave spot called Faneromeni last trip.

Rob, Bob et al, Reviewing your posts, am I right that on account of the different stances, It'd make more sense learning carving, to have a board setup just for that separate from a freeride setup? Then only try and combine the styles on e.g. a dual later? Would a Palmer Pulse be fine to start carving? Also, please confirm that first steps learning to carve would be easier with one of the soft setups discussed than going straight to hard boots with necessarily even steeper angles. Presumably, this would only be advised once used to intermediate positive angles?

Nice tune! amazing groom! Seriously; I don't think I ever saw grooooom as smooth. Must be midwest? strap it across the back of your helmet next time!

Dano! I had no idea this was a hill you use, AND you're a windsurfer too? This is my local NH spot, and will be moving over from europe to become a permanent resident before too long.

I did'nt hear a rant from you either! Had no problem atall with your comments. Just wanted to appreciate all genuine folks for their ideas, regardless of whether they subsequently became embroiled in necessary heated controversy!

http://www.extremecarving.com/swoard/board.html The Dual? Maybe it's a bit wide for you.

Checked that link Bob. It makes sense. Interestingly, in europe, amongst carvers, thinking seems to be that to get a symetrical effort at the ankle it leads to more bootout on the backside than on the frontside. that's the opposite of what the guy says in that link!

As I discovered today Bob! In the uk where punters, like lambs to the slaughter /turkeys voting for Christmas, EXPECT to pay £45 ($73) for the beds, in addition to about the same again for fitting!

Blue, wish there was more detail in that poll! Probably for learning carvers without hardboot experience, the poll would find much lower angles?

would have replied earlier, but looked like the forum was US during your night/my day. couldn't get on. Blue-not ignoring anyone. key jigsaw pieces sometimes come from the most unexpected quarters. Rob,Bob, People talking EC again. When I've cracked more positive angles in softs, I'll work the hardboots towards EC, moving onto a specialist EC board.. Not thinking about EC as realistic on the dual with softboots even once skills are there. Only freecarves. Can you be a bit more specific on the max rear boot angle and bootout for a learning carving setup with slarving where needed, and how this would differ after 10-15 days practice. I've only ever ridden duck, where more than about 1.5 cm overhang was noticeable on the only carves I could do; toeside. Can the FR2 angles be adjusted quicker than most bindings; which seem to require the 4 insert screws loosened right off..a bit of a pain? Coming down an alp involves constant alternation:n kilometers slarving;n carving etc etc. It would be unrealistic to keep stopping and readjusting to slarving/carving angles.

thanks. been meaning to go there.

Rob, problem is, 15 degrees on the back foot gives me 2.8 cm overhang on the heel AND on the toe! It drops to 2X 0.6 cm at 20 degrees. How would you modify your advice if atall?

20 degrees on the rear would give me about 1.2 cm overhang (toe and heel overhang added together). That ok to push the freecarving on typical moguled/rutted/ carved up pistes? Could then do up to 40 on the front?

so 20-25 degrees rear (would give small to no bootout!) and up to 35 front shouldn't be a problem for an alround freecarve -freeride setup to learn carving and go forward?

Bob, you know where any carvers meet up further north in NH so I can go watch when i'm over in a couple of weeks. Although looks like it'll be wall to wall ice.

Bob, thanks. you say it like it is; so... ...Is that for freeride and freecarve in one setup or learning carving only, or progressing/perfecting, or everything?? How much max bootout would be ideal?

Rob, I don't think I said how balanced and helpful I find your posts. It's these angles (and boot out) for learning, and perfecting carves, and how much I should allow differently for freeride that I need advise on. See other thread or post above. I am also really interested to know how e.g. dual can be set up for runs with freecarving and freeriding/sideslipping. What you say here suggests that for a learning carver, this versatility will detract from one or the other. So what rear boot angles should I be thinking of? I added the chicks on the other threads when I noticed how, on this thread, the guys enjoyed the pix of the moma, and how it calmed them down ! PS; in the light of what you say, was buying the Fr2 pro evo a mistake re learning to carve (too stiff?)

...with softboots on a hybrid freeride-carving board circa 26 cm wide at centre binding mount…and how if at all these settings would be different to allow freeride at the same time. 75kg 180cm, board 168.

Does anyone know some place inexpensive to buy these? I get good deals on boots, but when the fitter wanted £45 a shot for footbeds (double last year), I realised that for 2 pairs of these small low tech items, I'd be paying half the price of one pair of boots! Then fitting on top! I want to source the stuff and do it myself. Don't mind buying footbeds in larger number to force the price down further.

It’ll take a while to check out all the various ideas here. In the meantime, I think I ordered some FR2,s to be going on with (Catek hasn’t got back re’ the associated spec questions). I’ll be deliberately vague about other setups that you all have convinced me are worth trying! Thanks blokes; I’ve learned loads.<O:p</O:p <O:p></O:p> Actually, as a consequence of what I learned during progress of this thread, I wished that instead of asking in the OP about 60/40 angles, I had instead asked about:<O:p></O:p> “maximum rear bootout and angle for learning, and for perfecting freecarves (if different) in softboots on a hybrid freeride-carving board circa 26 cm wide at centre binding mount…and how if at all these settings would be different to allow freeride also”. ..bit of a mouthful, but this has me a bit stumped, since at 20 degrees, I still get 1.2 cm bootout. Is this angle/ bootout too much? <O:p></O:p> Can anyone advise on this here, or do folks think should I start another thread?

Newcarver, definitely get back to me after you actually try / know of anyone who tried a scarpa, / garmont prophet NTN boot successfully in an AT, or Bomber or Catek hardboot binding. I'm not yet convinced that the flex in those boots would allow it without issues. Someone said my email was disabled on here. How do I fix that?

Newcarver, whats an A/M deck? Hi Drzone, I actually have NXT AT's but was interested to hear how folk viewed them. The ratchets and rear lock up lever seem flimsy to me, although they are a lot quicker to in/out and hold their settings better than the K2 Cinch ctx I tried. I wonder if you'd find them more suitable for carving than me on account of your light weight? You reported some steep carving on quite high angles on the extremecarver forum with these on the dual 158. The advise from Rilliet combined with that here advises lower angles and other bindings. Is it your skill/lack of Kg that overcomes?!

With all the bruising, I lost count of days! Now I think about it.. 3 or 4 half days in New Hampshire Dec 08/09 alternating with ski days to give a break from bruising, 5 half days on the hintertuxer glacier Austria in April 09, 2 more half days in NH last month. Getting bored with non carved turns. The chores in softboots are only on boarding days. They are still in great shape. Most boarders seem to beat them up quicker than I do! Also, by the sound of it I'll need to upgrade these inexpensive soft boots for something stiffer. At the prices Bob mentioned they won't be touring the goats, pigs and geese routinely!