Learning To Carve. HELP!

[Guest NewbieChick]

This is my third year snowboarding and I am falling behind everyone. My boyfriend who started a year after me is doing way better and he's always telling me things I should or shouldn't do .. except I'm not quite sure I should listen to him considering he's still a newbie himself. One thing he keeps telling me is (and others too) is that I have a tendency to kick in between my turns and that I move my body before I move my legs. I am comfortable on my heelside (except for the butt thing) but every time I go on my toeside I have a tendency to kick and then almost come to a complete stop on the steeper hills. I'm almost about to throw away my board and just give up all together because I am so dissappointed in myself. I also think it might be my board, I've been told that the board is very flexible and it's meant for freestyle ... could this also be the reason why I am always the last one to get down the hill (even though I went first) ... my board has a tendency to vibrate when I go fast or over ungroomed hills.

Can someone please help me!

[mirror70]

Besides the obvious stuff like not using your upper body at all (it's supposed to be all legs), try keeping a bit more weight on your back foot. That should make it so you can't just kick out.

[philfell]

From my experience most people "kick" their back leg around when the turn because they don't understand how to move from one edge onto their downhill edge at the start of the next turn. This concept seems to go against everything that a snowboarder has been taught or self learned by catching many edges.

So lets first start out with what happens when we catch an edge. This is simple physics, when our board isn't pointed in the same direction that we are traveling (in a side slip our board is pointed across the hill, but we are traveling straight down the hill) and we go to our other edge we slam hard. That is why when we first learn to make turns we must first stear our boards straight down the hill THEN make our edge change.

So now onto basic carving. Carving is simply when the tip and the tail of our snowboard is following the same path in the snow. By having the tip and tail following the same path, this also means that our board is also pointed in the same direction as our travel. This means we can be on any edge with out catching it and slaming.

Now what I think you should take from what I've said above is the idea of moving onto your downhill edge before you start to turn your board. To do this practice carving while you are traversing the hill, all you have to do is roll your board on edge enough for it to bite into the snow and balance on it. It should be real quiet, and feel smooth under your feet. When you are comfortable carving going across the hill start to think about making that move onto your downhill edge then turn your board just like you would normally.

Hope this helps.

[Stan]

Take a lesson. That's what the instructors are for. Believe me - an average instructor LOVES teaching someone who has SOME idea about riding and just wants to work on improving the technique or working on a problem. Do it - get a good instructor, and you will improve your riding more in one or two hours than in 5-6 days otherwise.

Freestyle board - not too many people on this forum remember what THAT looks like... And yes, it WILL vibrate and chatter at higher speeds / in crud / on ice / anywhere outside the terrain park... Try one of the stiffer freeride boards.

Cheers!

[Coldrider]

This is simple physics, when our board isn't pointed in the same direction that we are traveling (in a side slip our board is pointed across the hill, but we are traveling straight down the hill) and we go to our other edge we slam hard. That is why when we first learn to make turns we must first stear our boards straight down the hill THEN make our edge change.

Good point, Phil, but one I think needs a bit of clarification.

I think what you mean to say is that the board must be pointed in the direction that IT is moving. I can, for example, make short radius carved turns where my body is traveling down the fall line, but my board is not pointed in this direction when I change edges. In fact, the very act of changing edges requires me to move <I>across</I> the board, and thus in every carved transition (and in every turn) my cm is <B>not</B> moving in exactly the same direction as my board.

It is only when my board is pointed in the direction that <I>its</I> CM is moving that I can smoothly transition to a clean carved arc. This is a small but important difference.

I saw this very concept in a recent AASI article, with the same small technical error. While this mis-statement may be 'good enough for government work', I think that the readers of this forum are tech savvy enough to appreciate the difference.

My 2 centavos.

[Guest John]

While I’m no expert, I’ve helped some of my friends with problems similar to yours.

First off, I would recommend practicing your technique on less steep slopes. As you probably know, it doesn’t take an incredible rider just to get down a black diamond hill on a snowboard, if all they do is sideslip. Being a good rider isn’t about how steep a hill you can get down, it’s about owning the hill you’re on. It’s much easier to teach yourself if you’re on a hill that doesn’t intimidate you. In my experience it’ll take forever to get past throwing on the brakes on steep hills if all you ride are steep hills. It’s much better to develop solid turns on more mellow hills then bring those turns to the steeps. I’d recommend finding a run that’s mellow but not flat, like a shallow blue or steep green, to practice technique, and really make sure you have the basics down.

When you ride, you should try not to skid very much. To restate Phil’s point, doing a lot of skidding will make it very hard for you to develop good transitions between edges. For example, if you’re on your heel edge, and you’re traveling in the direction your feet are pointed, not the direction the board is pointed (in other words, skidding a lot) it’s really hard to transition to toe edge. Basically the only way to do it is to jump and swing your back foot around. That is NOT a good transition, and doing it that way will give you some bad habits. To make a good transition, you want to be going close to the way the board is pointing, then transitioning is almost as simple as rolling across the board.

Sometimes, especially when you’re learning, you need to skid a lot to bleed off speed (for instance on a steep hill.) Don’t try to switch edges in the middle of a big skid. Instead, try to apply more pressure to the edge you’re skidding on, so that you’re skidding less, and traveling more in the direction the board is pointed, then try to change edges.

To your vibration problem: Do you bend your knees when you ride? I’ll admit that during my first few years of boarding I had to make a conscious effort to ride with my knees somewhat bent. Your legs are your main tool for absorbing bumps and vibration, but they won’t do it if they’re locked straight.

One more thing, if you’re friends are giving you a hard time, try taking part of the day to ride by yourself, so you can practice without the pressure of being the last down the hill.

But keep practicing, and you’ll get better we promise. A lot of snowboarding is practice and confidence, and you’ll be amazed when it clicks.

PS: or take a lesson, I’m self taught and I have an irrational fear of them, but lessons are probably good stuff

[philfell]

Sorry Coldrider, I understand your point and it is absolutly true, but I am trying to keep the concept as simple as I could for the person it was intended. At lower level of snowboarding I think it is too much info and not nessicary in this instance to break it down as far as you did.

[Coldrider]

(At the risk of making waaaay too much of a very small technical point):

OK, but I don't think it's too complicated to say to a newbie that when making an edge change, it helps to have the tip of the board pointed in the direction it is traveling.

It's simple, and technically correct to boot.

FWIW,

COLDrider

[Rob-CanCarve]

NewbieChick:

What ski resort in Ontario do you ride at??

We have a number of excellent carvers that are at Mt. St. Louis every weekend.

Any of us would be happy to provide you with some instruction as well as a group of carvers to ride with.

Feel free to contact me.

Hope this helps,

Rob

[joecarve]

It ain't about getting down the hill faster, it's about getting there better.

After you take this lesson (serious echo in here), spend the next couple hours riding alone to work on what you just learned.

My blind stab at advice: Since you're sliding more on toeside, I'm going to guess you're reaching for the snow with that uphill (back) hand. Don't do that. You want your uphill shoulder up, downhill shoulder down...

Also, take notes with you to the hill...print out Jack's "norm" articles as a start, re-read them on the lift or at lunch. If you're swinging your upper body around a lot, the "norm" exercises will help a lot with quieting things down.

joe...