Races for juniors - Europe, Canada, ?

[oldkey]

USASA sponsors a team called The All American Team (a junior national team up to 16 years old) for Boardercross and half-pipe. This team competes at the annual Trofeo Topolino event in Italy (http://www.trofeotopolinosnowboard.it). The team is considering adding alpine to the team, but is not aware of events outside of the USA to attend. Are there alpine races in Canada or Europe for juniors.....maybe associated with a FIS race? Is there an association similar to USASA in Europe or Canada that might have races? Any suggestions for web sites in Europe/Canada?

There are lots of events for junior freestyle riders......how about racers....anywhere?

Thanks in advance

[Guest dragon fly jones]

All over the FIS calender.

The proposals have been made in the past and never approved from either USSA or USASA.

Private teams/indivduals have gone and been successful in the past, the issue would be $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ or really the lack of it to support and alpine select side to go over there and get the experience needed to compete in the future. Right now our kids that want to race alpine are being very underserved by both organizations and so are the Canadian kids. It's pretty sad, but not unexpected.

IF some benefactor came in and did something, anything, hell we could do car washes or a calender or anything, the grassroots are not being water, cut or grown. Several top kids have dropped out of the sport due to the lack of support of their futures.

I feel a rant coming so I will stiffle myself.

[oldkey]

....am I correct? And, even when a kid turns 15, he/she is racing against the established racers. Let's pretend for a minute that $$$$ was not the issue. Outside of USASA races, where else can kids race against kids? Anywhere....

[Guest dragon fly jones]

In the last 10 years I have had kid turn 15 almost every year. And there is nowhere in north america for them to go. USSA had a JR champ for a couple of seasons. No idea where that went. Oh wait project gold 1 or 2 camps, a tshirt and see ya next year.

Even in the days of ISF it was sporadic at best. Now there is Project Gold (USSA) and the Topolino project (USASA). Outside of that the JR's are hosed unless they fly to Europe. The Swiss have a program, the Austrians have a program, the French, the Swede's, those kids end up dominating the FIS JR races. Take a look at this year for Juniors: Pretty spare so far eh?

29.-30.3.2006 Abetone ITA CHI PGS

SBX PGS

Date Event Nation Category Ladies Men

6.-9.4.2006 Sils SUI NC

JUN 2xPGS

2xSBX 2xPGS

2xSBX

28.-30.4.2006 Zermatt SUI JUN

NC 2xHP

2xBA 2xHP

2xBA

That is it, but remember that this is an Olympic cycle. Scary yes?This year is not the year to go, but it would be a good year to plan and plan and plan. The team they sent to the past JR worlds was a great team, not enough time with the "national team coaches" almost seems like it was thrown together at the last minute due to snow issues(etc). But that is my issue on that one, I have argued for and against so much, that I am giving up on the dream, yes I am retiring at the end of this year, and then I am going to get a bunch of money and fund it my own damn self.

[Guest dragon fly jones]

Aussie and a few other countries, that manage the JR's far better than we do.

[RobRidesSquaw]

I have a friend who was going to Jr Worlds last year for SBX and wasnt able to go due to the switch of dates. I know a couple people that missed out, ones that had a very good chance of podiuming, (i am talking about boardercross).

I turned 15 at the beginning of last season and started racing in FIS races. I had fun, and I am definitely racing this year again. But, i have never even heard of project gold and didnt know there was ever a USSA junior championships. One of the guys I ride with talks about the USSA development programs when he was a kid and compares them to USASA, he says there is no comparison there, USSA was far better when they did it. So, if they were to make a series of Junior events, for all disciplines, I think it would give kids a platform to leap from, I really enjoyed switching to FIS racing because of the competition, but a lot of my friends would rather have a USSA junior alternitive to USASA, and that'd be awsome.

[Guest dragon fly jones]

In that there needs to be avenues for kids. See, here the thing, USASA and the companies of snowboarding have the edge on us. They know how and what the kids wanna see. Big air and big tits and big checks, do the flippy trick and you my friend could be Shaun White. You could be in a Target commercial.

What do you want to be in the media perception (read public) a flippy trick superstar or the guy that worsk at Chipotle and wins but no one ever see's it?

Sorry I know you want to hear the best and I am the biggest supported of alpine, but when you have been kicked ignored and want to help the future of snowboarding, you finally reach a point of saying enough is enough and VOW in teh future to force change. Hey Don't I know you? You ride with Mort yeah?

[Guest dragon fly jones]

Any comments?

[RobRidesSquaw]

In that there needs to be avenues for kids. See, here the thing, USASA and the companies of snowboarding have the edge on us. They know how and what the kids wanna see. Big air and big tits and big checks, do the flippy trick and you my friend could be Shaun White. You could be in a Target commercial.

What do you want to be in the media perception (read public) a flippy trick superstar or the guy that worsk at Chipotle and wins but no one ever see's it?

Sorry I know you want to hear the best and I am the biggest supported of alpine, but when you have been kicked ignored and want to help the future of snowboarding, you finally reach a point of saying enough is enough and VOW in teh future to force change. Hey Don't I know you? You ride with Mort yeah?

Yea, this'll be my 5th year on the squaw team riding with Mort. I think i know you, chuck right? If so, i was in that house a couple years back at nationals in Angel Fire with mort and garret. I'll pry see you at the RTTC at Copper.

Klug gets a lot of media but it doesn't really seem to have any effect on anybody. He was huge at the 02 Olympics.

[philfell]

It's hard enough to get people to go to FIS events in North America as they are let along adding a sub-level, and partially dividing the already small feild.

It is a double edge sword, how do you develope athletes to that level without simply throwning them into the lions den. At the same time getting enough athletes to attend events to keep the event happening.

In years past USSA put on a series of races called the Race To the Cup. The purpose of these races were to qualify athletes for the extra quota spots for the Lake Placid World Cup (when a country host a world cup that country gets extra spots added onto the number of world cup spots they normally have, I hope I explained this OK). They also used these races to choose who was going to represent the US at Junior Worlds. So there was a race within the race. The top junior at each event received a junior world spot. Also at last years Nor-Am finals they crowned the top US and Canuck junior as the "junior national champ" (which one of my athletes currently holds the PGS title, thank you).

As far as SBX goes they did a similar thing at each of the three regional champs, where the top junior got a junior world spot.

So there are races that do matter for juniors, they are just lumped into other events. Which is good and bad at the same time. It's good to compare yourself to the best, it keeps you in check and if looked at through the right eyes lets you know how hard you have to work to get to where you want to go. Although at time it can be frustrating to compete against people who have been snowboarding longer than you have been alive.

Rob for project gold info go to http://www.ussa.org/PublishingFolder/439.htmhttp://www.ussa.org/PublishingFolder/439.htm it dosen't look like they've updated it for this season yet, but it will give you an idea. If you want to take the SBX racing seriously get yourself involved with a good program and a coach to look out for your interest. A good coach can keep you informed with which events are benificial for you to go to as a junior. I guess this is another thing that a coach does that an instructor wouldn't know about, maybe I should make another post in the other thread, maybe not. Good luck with your season.

[philfell]

Oldkey, if Patrick (sp) is interested in makeing it to some lower level FIS events this season here is a few you should look into going to. They are FIS level, but not Nor-Am level, which means there will be some high level racers there, but not many and overall would be less intimidating to race at.

21.-22.1.2006 Norquay, AB PGS/PSG

10.-12.3.2006 C.O.P., Calgary, AB CAN PGS SBX (Rob one for you too)

Good luck this winter.

[philfell]

What are you central people still doing up. It's late. And Chuck aren't you getting too old to be up this late here as well?

[Kent]

You know where I stand on this issue.....

But, I'd toss it right back to the folks at Euro Disney and Topolino because PGS was on the calendar during the first few years of the event.

Since DFJ and PF are closer to the "people" at USSA, I'll be the squeaky wheel:

USSA sucks for junior racing and development. A solid D- effort. Its an afterthought at best...

I've wrote about it before. It's not really the "people" at USSA, because they are limited via budget and other constraints. Its FIS management coupled with the deathlock of the IOC. Let's face it....if PGS wasn't an Olympic sport, FIS wouldn't be running it. Problem is that FIS/USSA

are MISUSING IOC funds. Yep....I'm calling foul. IOC MANDATES a % of funds MUST be used for development programs.

My guess is that PGS will be dropped very soon from the IOC, thus ending FIS involvment.

Which...is a good reason why racers should NOT abandon USASA races/series/nationals. Yes..there are problems. Bring them up and work through them in your region. SHOW UP at nationals and things will change....

[oldkey]

......just looking at this point to find a venue or two for the All American Team to race. Are these events that you posted ( Chuck and Phil ) able to be attended and raced by kids under 15 and FIS eligible? The current team is split (for HP and BX) at 14 and under and 15/16.

Good memory Phil.....Patrick and I look forward to seeing you at Copper. How's Garrett doing? Please tell him that Patrick and Matt say "hello."

[Guest dragon fly jones]

Is Garrett's new vocation, demoing house was the gig for a while this summer, but talking to him once a week or so has revealed a hard core gambler like from the old west days of tombstone. ( I was just in that town today so there!)

Garrett is still in MN plotting his new TEAM PCSBT.

Phil you gotta beef with old guys? Experience and treachery will do you in.

And Kent, you and I are in the same boat, in the sense that what we always hear is Budget budget budget, so that is why when I am gone, I am going to find serious cash and support the kiddies out of my own pocket. I hope to good the drug/kung fu/soap business does well in the future otherwise this may or not be a pipe dream.

Signing off from Tucson AZ. Wanna see the picts from the AZ trip so far? Yeah I know you do. http://coloradocyclist.blogspot.com/

bye for now kids.

[philfell]

The events I posted are FIS events so you must be 15 or older. If you're under that age you really don't need to be traveling internationly to hit events there are plenty of USASA event with strong riders that would make sense to travel to. Look at last years winners in each catagory find out what region they compete in and make it to one of their home events to test yourself. To me this makes more sense for an under 15 year old to do and makes sense for those older as well.

To my knowledge there isn't any race other than USASA Natioinals that kids under 15 can go to where the competition level would be what you are looking for.

Kent you are right. USSA sucks at their development programs. I don't know if I would say that they are misusing funds though. You are right they do have to use a % of funds for development programs. When your budget is so small that many of your top world cup riders have to fully fund their entire season the % of that budget going to development programs is going to be really small, so small you probably wouldn't even notice it at all.

I really wish I had an answer to get kids more involved in racing, and I wish I could take what USASA is doing with the grassroots and feed it into the FIS races. What we have going on right now isn't working and needs to change, I honestly don't know where to begin to fix it though. Most juniors feel too intimadated to go to FIS and USASA make is a pain for FIS racers to come to USASA Nationals. So neither side knows whats going on. It needs to be easier to move back and forth between organizations. I even suggested haveing a soft-boot catagory at our local events, but the idea never really took off. I still think it would be a good idea. The jib kids could race eachother, no need for wax, speed suits, "ski" boots what not. Just straight up bragging rights. And maybe one or two would cross over, or not, but they would have some fun regardless.

[philfell]

Sign off Chuck I still see you at the bottom of the page. I'm not cracking before you, but I do need to get up early tomorrow. So lets just make this easy on both of us.

[philfell]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! I win.

[oldkey]

Chuck.....we will say a prayer for the "drug/kung fu/soap business. I'd love to see guys like you and Kent stay with it.....the kids really appreciate it.....and many of us parents do as well....more than you might think.

Garrett into Poker? Maybe that's where Patrick got it from.....or was that you Kent?

Matt Hanna

[oldkey]

Individually, race against the best that you can find at USASA races (look at last years results and figure out their home series). Go to USASA nationals. After turning 15, add some non NOR-AM level FIS races until these higher level races become comfortable......all the while setting sights on getting to the USASA Open Class. Compete in both USASA and FIS events when comfortable to do so.

For the All American Team (considering that it includes all ages up to 16), their does not seem to be any NA alternatives.

So....I think that we are going to contact the other 21 countries that participate in Trofeo Topolino to ascertain 1) if they have an alpine program, 2) where they race....what types of events....any European team events and 3) to see if they would be interested in adding a seperate racing event at this next Trofeo Topolino event (non Disney sponsored, but same teams participating instead of leaving the alpine kids at home).

Anybody else understand junior racing in Europe or Canada that could lend some guidance?

Chuck, Phil, Kent....thank you as always for your dedication to this sport and the juniors that are the future.

Matt Hanna

[ARCrider]

I've raced in a development program in Ontario. First race I attended was for my kids and found out it was open to all ages. So we all raced on the same course against our own age groups. different format from FIS races. We were able to have some practice runs in the morning. and when we broke for lunch the practice course was torn down and reset. after inspection we all had 3 timed runs and the best 2 were combined for final results. ages ranged from 7 up. We all enjoyed the day and signed up for the series.(5 races)

Originally it was run by Alpine Ontario but has been taken over by the Association of Ontario Snowboarders. don't know if they follow the old format anymore.

[dantheman0177]

Aussie and a few other countries, that manage the JR's far better than we do.

We have a pretty good Inter Schools competition and most of the race club meets seem to have lots of juniors. However I am not sure how much alpine snowboarding is involved. I have a feeling it is more aimed at skiers than boarders. Also, our hills are really small in comparison, so the courses are pretty short. But it might be worth having a look around the web, because it could provide a good out of season opportunity for you, as well as a cost effective one, given the value of our respective currencies.