2nd guessing binding settings / adv. beg. rut?

[FTA2R]

Guys,

Need some advice from those who are dialed in and able to get real low (one of my main goals). I ride an Alp (wider board) and have small feet (M24). I believe those 2 factors have me toward the low end of alpine binding angles. Currently riding Burton Race plates both at 51 deg., no lift or cant. Setup seems to be working well and feels OK but now since another hardbooter who I met yesterday (was in softies, not you Scott, lol!) told me I should try something like 39 deg, which seems totally unfeasible for carving, I'm just a bit unsure. Granted yesterday was not my best day, as I was riding on 3 hours of sleep (if that), I was trying to ride steeper blues, and there were human gates everywhere.

One of my main problems is that I am having trouble angulating enough to get really low

So I'd like to know:

1) how much can 3 degrees make re: how low you can get? For instance, 48 would have more leverage, right but isn't it easier to get lower with steeper angles (b/c your body is facing more to the nose, which seems to me less stretching/physical effort necessary)

2) what, and how much, if any difference, does binding bias (bindings are slightly biased toward heelside edge I think) make?

3) What is the relationship b/w edge inclination and binding angle(s)?

4) saw some pics (from last week's SES, I believe) of guys going very low on heelside (maybe the pureboarders) and grabbing the toeside/uphill edge..looked at it more closely and it almost looked like they were pulling the toeside edge to achieve angulation. I'm am I looking into this too much (no pun intended) or is this a technique?

5) is it OK or maybe even preferred for a still relatively new carver (such as myself) to have a bit of boot overhang?

6) for the guys that carve quite fast, were you at all scared of the speed at first? seems to me that riding at speed on these boards feels much more vulnerable (probably why we all like it so much) but a few times yesterday I approached my personal speed limit, which I want to increase. I've been boarding for a while so I don't go "slow" on my freeride but I don't go straight line runs either. Is this just a confidence thing and I should keep pushing myself? I'd like to be good enough to at least be able to race one day (recreationally)

===

Barry

[Chubz]

Barry

I took up HB's this season after 20+years in softies. I'll try to answer what I can, but realize this is from a guy who started this year. I'm sure there are folks out there who have beena t it a while with more specific answer so I'm giving it to you b/c it's fresh to me.

1. I started at 50 degrees F/B (front/back). As I began to get the hang of it. I bumped it up a couple degrees each time I came out to where I'. 65 F/63B which brings my boots even with the edge of the board. In most conditions, I can do proper turns for the most part.

2. I dont know what you're talking about

3. If you mean angulation, not inclination. I have found the steeper my binding angles, the more angulation I am getting. For me it has become a tilting left to right rather thatn pressure on heel toe. With that tilting, confidence should grow.

4. Grabbing toe edge is simply style from what I understand. By that time you are well into the carve and coming out of it.

5. Boot overhang is ok until you find your carving getting better. Just give each binding abgle a couple days each and keep increasing it. It is a bit differrent each time with new settings but you will get to the point that those toes and heels are inside teh edge of the board.

6. I was always a speed freak on my freestyle but event he alpine speed was different and exciting to me. you should grow accustomed to it once you gain more confidence. By that time you should be able to learn the characteristics and limits of your board and controlling the speed is done by cutting across the fall line and sometimes back up it to check speed. I have about 20 days on my HB's and the lightbulb went off in my head about control speed on steeps. Now I get it. and along with that I have my board holding on ice, which I didnt think was possible.

Good luck and have fun and ride with someone if you can. Props out to Jesse and the other BM guys for the help.

Greg

[Slim]

I guess I'm impatient. I mounted my bindings, right from the start, so that the toe and heel were right over the edges, without overhang.

Worked for me--at least so far.

[gdboytyler]

Originally posted by Barry

...I was trying to ride steeper blues, and there were human gates everywhere....

1) how much can 3 degrees make re: how low you can get? For instance, 48 would have more leverage, right but isn't it easier to get lower with steeper angles (b/c your body is facing more to the nose, which seems to me less stretching/physical effort necessary)...

I would not recommend lowering your boot angle to the point that you get overhang.

If you carve easy blues with no problem, and you have problems on the steeper blues, then I would recommend trying a different board.

Check out my rant on Burton Alps:

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5302

[Baka Dasai]

I think a focus on "getting low" is misplaced. It'd be more appropriate to focus on making higher-G turns, or tighter turns, or faster turns. All of those will require that you get low, but the getting low is the side effect, not the main aim. Personally, I always think in terms of higher G-forces - I love to see how much pressure my legs (and the trench) can take before converting that pressure into the board springing me into the next turn.

Anyway...on to your questions...

1. I don't notice 3 degrees of difference in my stance angles. Stance angles of 51 on an Alp seem to be in the right ballpark - I don't think the angles are the problem.

2. Don't know. I have mine biased so that the front foot is pushed toward the toe edge and the rear foot is pushed to the heel edge - this is to equalise the overhang/underhang. I've never played with it enough to know if it makes any difference.

3. None? Look at the EC guys - they run binding angles in the 40s and 50s, and get edge angles of close to 90 degrees.

4. I doubt that pulling up on the edge would be helpful. It doesn't matter anyway - if you're angulated enough, and low enough, to be able to grab your edge in a turn, you don't have too much of a problem.

5. It depends on how much edge angle you're getting in turns. Overhang doesn't matter unless your boots/bindings hit the snow. But I also don't think overhang is beneficial for carving, although having shallower angles is helpful for skidding the board around quickly when needed.

6. When I first started riding hard boots (5 years ago), I slowed down a lot. I found it hard to skid a carving board around, and without that easy safety valve, and without having mastered carving, I had to go slower. I was also pretty motivated to simply carve pure-knifelike trenches rather than hooning about at speed. It took me quite a while (maybe 2 seasons) before I returned to my old speeds. Now I go faster than ever before. Again, it took me a while before I felt natural and balanced at high stance angles (50s/60s)

Because the Alp is fairly soft, it won't really be able to be carved at great speed, but it's probably ideal for learning to carve at more moderate speeds.

[FTA2R]

gdby tyler,

interesting points on the old thread re: the Alp's limitations. Personally, I don't think I'm really ready for a higher end board (even though I'm pretty sure I could ride one), and I don't even have that many options as I'm so light. I would really love to rock a Donek FC, everyone says they are bad. I do have a tendency to be a bit hard on myself (and keep stuff until it has "holes or is broken"), esp. being a "weekend warrior," but I truly do think I need to focus on technique right now. Perhaps when I was railin' at speed yesterday, I washed out b/c of the Alp, but I'm finding it can hold a pretty decent edge (at least for me), and I think I need to improve a bit before buying a new board. that being said, however, obviously a higher end board would hold an edge better. I can do a easy blue pretty confidently, though. Perhaps I'll get to try another board sometime.

Slim,

I have no overhang with my current setup. Have a little binding bias to help out with that too. found my weight on my back foot quite a bit yesterday though, possibly due to the rear binding bias, so I may undo that or maybe have one foot front bias the other rear.

thank you all for your helpful answers and keep 'em coming...

===

Barry

[FTA2R]

I just incrased it a little bit for this past weekend to about 18 I think, maybe 18.5 I'll have to double check

Barry

[SWriverstone]

Originally posted by Baka Dasai

I think a focus on "getting low" is misplaced. It'd be more appropriate to focus on making higher-G turns, or tighter turns, or faster turns. All of those will require that you get low, but the getting low is the side effect, not the main aim.

This is exactly what I've been doing. Not that it's the "right" way to progress...but I've just been gradually increasing my lean and speed on turns...and over time, learning what works and what doesn't. I may well reach a point where I can't go any farther without some big technique changes...but so far it's been working well.

Also: I think I heard somewhere here not to pay much attention to the push/pull technique? (Might be wrong about that.) Though I haven't really been practicing push/pull...I've dabbled with it a few times, and I've gotta say it feels a LOT better! I'd rather have my legs only slightly bent in the middle of a turn than to be sitting on my heels---because it's less painful! (OK, maybe I'm a wimp.)

For those who don't know, push/pull is what the Swiss dudes on extremecarving.com advocate---where you "pull the board toward you" (get lower) for your transitions...then "push the board away from you" (get higher) throughout the turns. They say this takes a lot of leg strength---but I think doing the opposite (getting low in turns) takes more.

Scott