FTA2R Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Scott, oldvolvosrule, just curious, where in W VA are you guys? I haven't been riding there in years, but I remember the drive being hellish (going at night when it was snowing didn't help) and it was pouring rain in canaan. Snowshoe is supposed to be great. Scott, you ride at Whitetail, PA normally? email me if you do, maybe we can hook up, if you want. Dudleydudley and I were there a few weeks ago. === Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Hey All... Just got back from Whitetail and another night of working on carving basics. Based on advice here (about the practical limits of soft boot angles) I went tonight with 45/front and 40/rear. Took one run down a moderate blue slope and did okay, but felt some quasi-serious discomfort in my rear ankle...like it was getting torqued the wrong direction. I wasn't sure if this was just 'cause I wasn't warmed up? Or just wasn't carving hard/fast enough to balance the downhill force on my ankle? So after a couple runs like that, I got out the screwdriver and opened up my rear foot to around 30 degrees. That was definitely better...though I kept worrying about approaching too close to the zero-degree masses. :) Left my feet at 45/front, 30/rear for the rest of the night and did another 10-12 runs. Conditions were good---the slope wasn't icy and was uniformly chopped up. <grin> Best of all, there were few people out tonight, so I could really hog the whole width of the slope for some big circles! I wasn't really doing the full "Norm" in that I wasn't carving with my legs out straight. But I wasn't bending my knees enough, either (thighs definitely not parallel to the ground yet). I focused on getting the board on edge and letting it go where it wanted to go (once it was on a rail). I also worked on leading the board (especially on heelside turns), getting my body forward over the nose---that seemed to make a big difference in how well the board held an edge. Results were mixed but good overall! It's so easy to just listen to the sound the board makes in a turn to judge how well I was holding the carve (or not). Slips were like a burst of static---yuk! Generally, I was doing better on my toe side---I was able to get the board farther up on edge and leave a pretty good, thin trench. Transitions felt good too---coming out of heelside turns, for example, I was holding the turn 'til I was headed back uphill, then crossing through to my toe-side, downhill edge. My heelside carves definitely need work. I caught myself several times "sitting on the toilet" in a half-conscious attempt to hold my edge (which I know isn't cool). My best heelside carves weren't a result of better form, but rather me just being able now and then to find and balance that fine line between remaining upright and falling on my butt! Still, I managed to do several carved turns that for me were downright scorchin'! It was a blast to be going across the slope with as much speed as I usually go downhill. I even tried to find my tracks while riding back up. It was hard much of the time, but I did spot one of mine...and it was a decent, 2-3" wide trench that made a nice clean semicircle---cool! :) Though I'm still a rookie carver, I've already started looking at all the other boarders and thinking "How incredibly inefficient!" Everyone just takes skidding and sideslipping for granted---it's the standard, accepted technique. They all looked like "slope sweepers," because almost nobody left tracks of any kind (since they were just sweeping up as they went along sideways). Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Originally posted by Barry Scott, oldvolvosrule, just curious, where in W VA are you guys? <snip> Scott, you ride at Whitetail, PA normally? email me if you do, maybe we can hook up, if you want. Dudleydudley and I were there a few weeks ago. === Barry Hi Barry---I live in Shepherdstown, about 20 minutes from Hagerstown, Maryland. And yes, I pretty much spend all my time at Whitetail---it's only about 45 minutes from my place. Sure, I'd be glad to email you---what's your address? (Or is it hidden somewhere in your message board profile?) I generally get over there just about every Fri/Sat/Sun night...plus a couple nights during the week. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Originally posted by www.oldsnowboards.com Scott. Are you riding every night?? Not every night, but at least 4 nights/week, sometimes 5. If you continue to put in this much energy into "Carving" . I think we (BOL Community) can step up and help you make this happen sooner, rather than later??? Sort of a "PAY FORWARD" kind of Apprenticeship so to speak. Perhaps we can all live vicariously through your learning phase. I am thinking if you will "Stay on Course" and provide updates of your progression. We as a group could assist you in the hardware department. Do you have a budget to work with? Pay shipping ? Just a thought. Keep up the good work. Bryan Thanks Bryan---I'm moved by the community support and solidarity here! As I may have mentioned, my challenge is that I'm a renaissance guy---it's really a pain sometimes! For example, I dropped about $3k last year on a hang glider and associated equipment...then there was the $500 or so on my current freeride board/soft boots...and then about a month ago I dropped $3k on a marimba (I'm a former professional percussionist and still love to play). Might sound like I'm rich, but no...and those purchases pretty much wiped out my savings! The good news is that I've got more $$$ coming in over the next month from guaranteed freelance work...so I'm sure I could set aside a few hundred bucks for some second-hand carving gear (and/or entry-level new gear). What I'm wondering now is...would having hard boots and a carving board help? Or am I better off continuing to work on the basics with my soft setup? Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Originally posted by MozzMann Scott you managed to scrape a lot of info up in a short period of time , now scrape some pennies together and come to Colorado and the SES we'll get ya "Zoomin the groom. " like a snow magician. Man, I'd love to come to SES...but I doubt I could afford it this year. I'd rather put my bucks into some gear and keep working on basics at the local slopes...then definitely get to next year's event! We've been talking about possibly doing a New England trip though...a long-weekend type of thing...so we might be able to go somewhere where there are some carvers to watch! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Scott, couple hundred bucks can get you on some real gear. Not the lastest but serious gear. At the rate you are learning you will be needed some real alpine gear very soon. Yes, although pure carving is quite common on freestyle gear by good riders. The level of g-force , get your yah-yahs, full on carving you seek (that we all here at BOL live for) will be found sooner at a much higher intensity with alpine specific carving equipment. Contact me via my site / email. I will be happy to help you get some gear going. Happy to do some web work trade out. Site could use a professional touch. Enjoy!, Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronG Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Barry, I'm not sure where you got your info at but I am located out here on the left coast, California to be exact. I think I will stay here for a bit longer as I think the carving hills are a wee bit better here than in West Virginia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Originally posted by SWriverstone What I'm wondering now is...would having hard boots and a carving board help? Or am I better off continuing to work on the basics with my soft setup? Scott Id say learning to carve on a soft setup will only help you, BUT...a full hard setup is gonna open those doors pretty darn wide, AND be VERY fun! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Originally posted by oldvolvosrule Barry, I'm not sure where you got your info at but I am located out here on the left coast, California to be exact. I think I will stay here for a bit longer as I think the carving hills are a wee bit better here than in West Virginia. yeah...saw that...figured youd pop up and correct. musta mixed you up with someone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Just got back from another night on the slopes at Whitetail. Warm today (up to 40) so conditions were a little wet. Back down to 20 tonight and colder tomorrow. (Typical crazy mid-Atlantic weather!). I'm definitely feeling a need to watch more video and go see real carvers do their stuff. One question I pondered tonight: how big should my circles be? (I know---it depends, right?) I noticed there were times when---if I really cranked the board up on edge and just let it go---it wanted to track in an ever-tightening spiral and rocket back uphill. So I thought, no---don't just let it go where it wants...control the size of the circle. That was a bit hard to do, 'cause if I tried to keep the circle more open, I'd get sideslip and some skidding. I've also decided I'm gonna make a t-shirt to wear around the lodge that says "Only idiots go straight down the mountain!" I wanted to scream at all the bozos who were just tearing straight down the slope. (Do they really enjoy shortening their runs that much?) I repeatedly had to break off carves to avoid someone...grrr....I am definitely the only snowboarder I've ever seen there doing anything like carving big circles... My heelside technique is still somewhat lame. Toeside is definitely better. I worked tonight on getting my CG/CM down low...but found I could only comfortably go so low (not quite far enough to have my thighs parallel to the ground). Seems like a walking stance (heels higher than toes) would make getting low a lot easier---my flat soft boots started digging into my shins if I tried getting really low. On the other hand, I discovered that getting down low really helped my toeside edging (because bending that much naturally pointed my feet forward more). I experienced some cool moments tonight when---on my heelside---I started to lose balance and was sure my rear would hit the snow---so I'd instantly crank the edge up higher (tightening my circle) and presto! I'm back in the game! I couldn't believe how I was able to pull out of a few certain plop-downs that way. Most of my practicing has been on a wide, moderate intermediate slope. I went up to a higher/steeper slope tonight for a few runs; edge transitions were fun, but on the steeper slope I was skidding a lot more (bummer). Just don't have the technique yet to slingshot around some totally carved circles on the steeper ground... I've decided I'll have to fork out some $$ to go there first thing in the morning so I can get on a just-groomed slope. (I only have a night season pass.) I've been riding with 45/front and about 25/rear. (My first attempt at 40/rear was painful.) I'm wondering if I could get away with slowly closing my rear foot down again (like take it to 30 or 35 degrees?). I realized tonight that having both feet more forward might make getting down low a bit easier. (I don't think I've been getting on edge nearly enough to experience boot-out!) Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Scott, I haven't boarded nights since college, not really my thing anymore, plus just not convenient for me. Last week I hit liberty and honestly even though it's quite a bit smaller, I think it's a better carving hill. I coudl very well be wrong, however. What runs at 'Tail have you found to be non-bumpy / decent carving runs? That blue right under the right lift is OK toward the end but too bumpy (for me, at least. Last year I saw Vlad tear it up on that run, though, so it can be done). Would you be up for meeting at Lib or maybe even roundtop sometime? funny comment re: other riders bombin. That's one thing about 'Tail, it can get really busy. Even though Lib is smaller, it has 2 ridable sides, so the riders are spread out more evenly. During the weekdays, though, no one is at these resorts. Perhaps we coudl do a weekday thing. oldvolvos, sorry, as D-Sub pointed out, I must have confused you with someone else. memory's goin.' === Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Scott the radius of your turns is a function of both sidecut and how hard youre bending the board (other factors obviously as well) a longer sidecut will allow longer turns but can be pressured into tight ones, too BUT takes a lot more speed to turn it Im just regurgitating info;) I SERIOUSLY think you should take folks up on their offer to get you on some real alpine gear also...dont fall for the alpine snobbery...the "we're better cuz we carve" thing...its just another facet of snowboarding, and some sliders still rip pretty darn hard. maybe not in WV as much;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Originally posted by Barry Scott, I haven't boarded nights since college, not really my thing anymore, plus just not convenient for me. I think I'm a "daytime wimp" because I actually like night better! Easier on the eyes and I can see every individual grain of snow (as opposed to total white-out sometimes on sunny days). But I could get out on a weekday too. Last week I hit liberty and honestly even though it's quite a bit smaller, I think it's a better carving hill. I coudl very well be wrong, however. What runs at 'Tail have you found to be non-bumpy / decent carving runs? I like Liberty---it's definitely smaller, but there is more variety with frontside/backside slopes. I haven't attempted carving there yet (at least my rookie version of carving!). I've been spending almost all my time on the "Snow Park" slope at Whitetail (the one straight ahead from the lodge). I like this one 'cause it's really wide, has some nice variety in terrain, and is steep enough to get some pretty good speed. They call it a green slope, but I think it's more like an easy blue. (I wouldn't throw a beginner down it!) That blue right under the right lift is OK toward the end but too bumpy (for me, at least. Last year I saw Vlad tear it up on that run, though, so it can be done). I was on that one tonight (it's called "Limelight") and yeah, it was pretty choppy. I might spend more time on that one, though, because the lift is twice as fast as the glacially-slow one for "Snow Park." Would you be up for meeting at Lib or maybe even roundtop sometime? Sure---my daughter's school club is going to Liberty this Friday night, so I'll probably head over there then, arriving between 7 and 7:30. I'll definitely be wanting to get out Sat/Sun nights too, so those are possibilities---if you can get out at night. Otherwise we could shoot for a weekday next week. (My night pass starts at 4pm too.) funny comment re: other riders bombin. That's one thing about 'Tail, it can get really busy. I've found Whitetail's not bad at night---I've never stood in a lift line after 7pm. But yeah, I think it gets a little mobbed during the day. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Originally posted by D-Sub Scott the radius of your turns is a function of both sidecut and how hard youre bending the board (other factors obviously as well) a longer sidecut will allow longer turns but can be pressured into tight ones, too BUT takes a lot more speed to turn it Im just regurgitating info;) I SERIOUSLY think you should take folks up on their offer to get you on some real alpine gear also...dont fall for the alpine snobbery...the "we're better cuz we carve" thing...its just another facet of snowboarding, and some sliders still rip pretty darn hard. maybe not in WV as much;) Thanks for the info D-Sub. And don't worry---I'm working on getting some Alpine carving gear! As for the Alpine snobbery---what, we're NOT better??? ;) I've just always been a bit baffled by the fascination people have with the "jumpin-like-a-monkey-on-fire" approach to sports (e.g. crazy acrobatics). Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 hey Scott, lol, you're preferred meeting times are basically exact opposite of mine. Even though I dont' wear glasses, I'm a bit weary of my depth perception, unless the place is really well lighted. Plus I would assume there is some freezing over at night. I guess you have sensitive eyes? Fri and Sat. night!!! That's my weekend, I'm only 26! lol. I'll give some thought to it, but right now I'm not too excited about the idea. yeah, snowpark is what Dudleydudley and I spent a lot of time on a few weekends ago. someone once told me it was a "green-blue." Parts of it are definitley steeper than green. It's a decent carving run, but IMO very short and way too crowded, esp. with beginners uninformed of proper etiquette (don't sit in the middle of the damn trail). The lift does take forever, too, esp. cause it stops. Also, DD and I noticed little pebbles scattered around toward the top of that run. This was a few weekends ago, though. What about those 2 blues b/w Limelight and Snowpark- I think they were closed when we were there last and I can't remember what they were like from last year. That one run on Liberty on the backside all the way on the left if you are taking the backside lift seems like it would be perfect, but it wasn't open last weekend. Now I remember that a few Sundays ago (2, to be exact) we did see another carver on that run a bunch of times. Was that you? Looked like a tall guy. Yeah, "Limelight" that's it. I don't like to get going that fast if there are big bumps. Can't stop quickly enough (yet, anyway). I might be up for taking a day off of work to do some weekday stuff. Keyword being "day. =). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Hi Barry... LOL---yeah, I guess I'm an "old dude" with my free Friday/Saturday nights! (I abandoned the going-out-on-the-town scene ages ago!) I don't mind boarding in daylight at all, and my eyes can handle it (with shades, of course). I'm just more accustomed to night since I was a cheapskate and got the nights-only season pass. Funny you mentioned not trusting your depth perception...'cause I think mine is way better at night than during the day! I don't think you guys saw me 2 Sundays ago 'cause I don't think I'd even really started working on carving then. I've only been focusing on it for a week or so. (I'm 6-feet tall though...) Yeah, that far slope on Liberty's backside did look good, but it wasn't open when I was last there either. You think Snowpark at Whitetail is short? LOL---I think it's about the longest slope around! (Which admittedly isn't saying much.) I thought the Liberty slopes were like....a couple turns and you're back at the lift! That flat green slope is good and long...if you can keep moving... The slopes between Limelight and Snowpark at Whitetail look pretty good, but I haven't checked 'em out yet. Hit the email button to drop me a line so I'll have your address, and we can make some plans to meet up during the day sometime soon. I'd enjoy learning from you guys (and will hopefully keep up). Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 OK, I'll email you. DD and I are pretty newbish, too (although I feel I'm progressing), so I don't expect to learn too much from us. We were gonna take a lesson (or maybe even a few) with PhilB from Roundtop, but a serious injury yesterday has him out of action for sometime. There's an instructor who rides plates at Lib, too, I'll email you in a bit. === Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Originally posted by SWriverstone As for the Alpine snobbery---what, we're NOT better??? ;) I've just always been a bit baffled by the fascination people have with the "jumpin-like-a-monkey-on-fire" approach to sports (e.g. crazy acrobatics). Scott alpine riding is quite technical, no doubt. sometimes a bit too much so but...monkeys jumping...thats just the masses and hordes. unrefined idiots, many of them. hell, even some of the higher level boarders...dont have much respect for them thing is...what you see on TV isnt exactly pure boarding. its ESPN. Ever seen Tom Burt ride? Noah Salasnek? Dave Seaone? Nick Perata? Shawn Farmer? Steve Klassen? those guys arent jibbers, but they dont ride hardboots either, and they fcking RIP on ALL terrain, and Im sure that they could throw on a hardboot setup and within a very short period of time be ROCKING down the groomers how many of us carvers can say the same thing? How many of us would be able to drop into a 40+ degree couloir in the chugach mountains and come out uninjured, let alone do it styishly? all Im sayin is, dont become a carving racist;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Went back out again the past two nights working on basics. Friday night we went to Liberty, a small mountain near Gettysburg, PA. No fun---Liberty has some fun trails, but it was mobbed with obnoxious kids, they were blowing snow furiously, and the lodge was so packed you almost couldn't even sit down anywhere. Holly (my girlfriend) and I hit Whitetail last night---aah, that was better! Still, our favorite slope (Snow Park) was full of beginners---dozens of stationary obstacles (on knees, on butts, etc.) all the way down---lousy for working on my carving skills. There were even Mennonite women on the slope---in skirts! (No offense to Mennonites---just looked very odd...) Still, we stayed 'til midnight. Holly's catching on to carving too, and I think will eventually be a very good carver! Last night I changed her angles from F30/R-10 to F45/R25. She did well with that setting. I'm gradually steepening my angles---front's at 45, and I moved rear from 25 to 30 last night, no problem---gonna continue and move it up to 35 next outing. It was frustrating not being able to really focus on my turns---hard to commit to a turn when bombs are dropping all around you (15-year-old boys barreling straight down mountain). Definitely need to get back out on some weekday mornings when nobody's around. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Just returned from Whitetail again. Holly and I were there 'til midnight last night, and conditions were really nice (and empty after 10pm). Tonight was icy after another typical thaw-freeze cycle we seem to have so many of around here. :( Last night was fun...tonight seemed more like work---a practice session! But it was fun too. I continued to move my rear foot to higher angles. Rode F45/R30 last night, and it felt fine...so I upped my rear foot to 36 (F45) tonight, and it felt fine too. My goal is to reach F45/R40 on my soft gear and stop there (reasoning this will be a good transition point for when I get carving gear). Holly's a bit behind me, riding F45/R25. She's doing great with those angles, so I suggested we crank her rear foot up to 30 next time. We both worked hard tonight on lowering our CGs (deep-knee-bending!). Hopefully we were doing something right 'cause after just a half-dozen runs we both experienced solid quad-burn and started getting sloppy, so we quit. We both also worked on weighting the rear foot more (which neither of us had been doing effectively) and getting a bit more into the backseat to prevent tail washout. It seemed to be working better---definitely reduced washout tendency. I was having trouble squaring my shoulders to the nose of the board on my heelside turns, and Holly suggested I try tucking my rear knee in behind my front one more (which we'd read somewhere...). That seemed to help me rotate more. Of course, while focusing so hard on those issues (and dodging human bombs raining down everywhere) we really weren't carving any good circles tonight...but it felt like some progress anyway! Scott Shepherdstown, WV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 keep the knees apart. http://www.bomberonline.com//articles/seperate_zee_knees.cfm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Thanks Jack---I hadn't read that article yet! (Good article, makes sense---oh well, back to the drawing board...) Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted February 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 1/31 Report: hit Whitetail again---nice! Nobody there. Conditions seemed mediocre, though (ultra-hard-packed powder bordering on ice). Forgot my parka (DOH!) so I said what the hell---and decided to "MANboard" in only my turtleneck and fleece vest. It was fine---thankfully not a puff of wind tonight. Still riding F45/R36...still having problems with tail washout on heelside turns. I swear I'm not crouching forward and I'm angulating at least a little. I'm trying to put some weight on my back foot entering the turn (when the washout happens)...but it doesn't seem to work. What does work is getting my hips/torso forward, over the toe of the board, as I enter the heelside turn and go on edge. Somehow (even though it seems the opposite of what I'm supposed to do) that forces the board to dig right in and hold like gangbusters. (???) Any ideas why? It's like, if I drive the toe-edge of the board down by shifting my weight over it, it carves nicely and the tail obediently follows... Also worked on fixing my eyes on a point across the slope when entering a turn (usually a point somwhat uphill of my position at the start of the turn). That almost worked too well---I found when I did that (or focused on the center of my cirlce) my turns tended to be much smaller and tighter. I would like to have done more than a half-dozen runs...but they started blowing snow around 8:30pm, and that was too much for my springtime attire. I also found out today that I'm about 30lbs. over the max recommended weight for my board. (So much for the ski shop dude's recommendation...) as a reminder, I'm currently riding a Rossignol Premier 159 freestyle board. (Is that really stupid?) Oh well---it's still fun! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 scott I think that your weight should be driving forward at the start of turns no matter which edge youre turning on and I think youre gonna find carving to be a little easier when you get that package from a certain Oregonian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Dasai Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Originally posted by SWriverstone ...still having problems with tail washout on heelside turns.... I'm trying to put some weight on my back foot entering the turn (when the washout happens)...but it doesn't seem to work.... What <i>might</i> be happening is that as you start the turn you are rotating your upper body towards the nose of the board, and this is causing your lower body (and board) to also rotate, and therefore skid. People also wash out at the start because they're anxious to get the turn happening quickly and tend to nudge the back of the board around to speed the process up. These are just guesses though... In soft boots, I find it easier to do heelside carves by having lots of forward lean on my highbacks, and simply leaning back against them. Voila, the board just turns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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