Binding angles - first time out.

[danmyersmn]

Hi all,

I have gotten the itch to give carving a go. I have been reading "the norm" and plan to use that as my starting tool for my next time out. Trying to visualize the method has me wondering how I would want to set my binding angles.

"The turn is created solely by leaning to one side or the other while maintaining a rigid beam-like body perpendicular to (i.e. 'normal' to) the plane of the snowboard."

Follow this up with Norm II: "After you've become comfortable executing linked norm carves facing sideways, take one more run making norm carves facing forward."

I will be starting out using my current hardware. Rossignol Vintage 163 with soft boots/bindings. I currently ride +15/-15. Would I want to move my bindings to something more alpine like or is the point of the norm to start learning to carve using your current setup? Or should I just go out as is and try and feel the carve in "the norm"?

[ur13]

If you are comfortable with that duck stance but can't link carves yet start there. However if you can link carves with that stance try something around +27/+12 and get a feel for that in softies.

One of the massive problems I see with people who have learned to snowboard in the past 5 years is how many instructors teach people to ride in a duck stance for normal (i.e. non-park) riding. It really teaches bad habits.

You'll be surprised how different it feels moving to a more "classic" soft boot stance of +27/+12. it won't be alpine but you'll see the difference and it will help you move on the road of riding alpine much better than a duck stance.

[Loc]

Don't dramatically change your angles so suddenly. Increase your angles to 0* in the back and get comfortable. Then try increasing them just a bit more after lunch. I remember my first time out on HBs, a 171 board, and 40* angles - almost went into the trees if it wasn't for a butt slide!

Enjoy, I think you'll grow to like alpine very much.

[Phil]

Any way that you do it, as long as you are riding softies with relatively low angles, DO NOT face the nose of your board.

Ride in an aligned stance with your body facing your toes - then turn your head in the direction of travel and/or the direction the board is pointing.

This will be much more effective than twisting your body up to face the nose. Facing the nose on softies and low angles would be akin to skiing by leading with your front shoulder or riding side saddle on a bike. :rolleyes:

All of this being said, most of the basic ideas of "The Norm" transfer well to soft booting.

A lot of the better carvers out there are on soft boots - many of them with a duck stance.

[danmyersmn]

I actually quit snowboarding 7 years ago after knee surgery and started again this year. I am duck stance now because its comfortable to have my rear leg (surgery leg) toed out. When I do squats and dead lifts I do a duck stance as well. I don't know how I will take to carving but I want to do it. I have no interest in the park and keep trying to improve my downhill boarding. Carving appears to be the proper way to move to where I want to be. Only by trying will i know if my body (knee) is up to it.

I have never tried to carve. I am more of a slide/push/muscle and force it sort of style. Or another way...more redneck midwest flannel then fancy euro turtleneck.

[ohiomoto]

I run my size 13 soft boots at 35/35 to reduce/eliminate boot overhang and I can carve some wicked turns on my regular board. The stance feels a lot like my alpine stance so the movement patterns we very similar.

Here's the rub. Up until last spring, I had never ridden in soft boots before. I have been hardbooting (in ski boots) 5-6 days a year since 1995. I always ran 60/60 in my ski boots so 35/35 felt comfortable for me. For the record, I have only been on the softboots about 6-7 times since I got it. I was very surprised how well I could carve that sucker. It's pretty fun!

BTW, I was asking some kid at the local shop about riding fakie and he suggested I try a duck stance. I'm going to try it sometime. Should be interesting to see how it affects my carving.

[Dave ESPI]

IMHO,

if you want to carve, do such, but you need a completely different set of stance and mindset.

Y ?

because if you try to change what your body already knows into doing something else, the muscles will try to revert to "memory" of stances and movements you are already self-trained in.

38 degrees front foot, 28 back foot. align your shoulders with the way your front foot faces. On toesides, drop your knee and shoulder into the turn, on heelside press your hip up and out and your shoulder back away* from the nose and you will love it in soft boot gear.

I tried teaching a few people with the "gradual" change method and it didnt work because they would fight the stance and body movements requires as they were too similar to be effective.

If you are going to go, do it all the way.

Im sure I may take some heat from a few forum members for said statement, but to some, perhaps they will agree.

* see the Dahl book NO FALL SNOWBOARDING for technique.

[danmyersmn]

IMHO,

38 degrees front foot, 28 back foot. align your shoulders with the way your front foot faces. On toesides, drop your knee and shoulder into the turn, on heelside press your hip up and out and your shoulder back away* from the nose and you will love it in soft boot gear.

If you are going to go, do it all the way.

I think I am going to start with this idea. I can change my binding angle easy enough to switch every run. I keep trying to figure out how to get out of my duck stance mindset. As I visualize the running the hills I keep seeing myself coming up on my rear leg toes and pushing the back of the board around a turn. I need to break that mental image and remove that option. A complete change may be needed.