KingCrimson Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/12/08/military.jet.crash/?imw=Y&iref=mpstoryemail#cnnSTCText Happened right over my school. I was looking at the plane before he ejected. Saw the canopy shoot up, saw the pilot tumble before his chute went, saw the plane go down, saw the mini-mushroom cloud. Felt it too. Spooky occurence, dark storm clouds overhead, plane in the sun. Grandmother, Mother, 2 children missing/dead. Please pray for them and their families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted December 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/national/index.ssf?/base/national-114/122878164788900.xml&storylist=national&thispage=2 Update. 3 confirmed deaths, 1 more missing. This is down the street from me. Carrazzzzzy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotts.Scheinman Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 my question is how did a marine get in a f-18. i though thoes were for air force only. i could be wrong though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 F-18 is Navy/Marines and set up for carrier landings. I do believe the Air Force flies 'em too, usually they use the F-16 single engine. All that changes as new planes come on line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 air force doesn't fly F18's they are a Navy and Marine Corp aircraft only. Sad that crash both for the family who lost members and for the pilot who's airplane killed them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted December 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 Back when MCAS was a Navy base (Top Gun!) there used to be F14 Tomcats all the time. Those are BIG planes. People don't realize that even the F18 is a gigantic thing. 25k pounds, 40 foot wingspan. Cover of the paper today. Still sick of these testimonies. "Fireball" "Spiraled" "Plummeted" No. It cleanly cut through the air. It was still hauling ass. ****ing journalism. http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20081210/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 just an FYI stall speed for a F18 is a little over 100mph, below stall speed is when it literally falls out of the sky still fast for what you and me are used to but it can't fly at that speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted December 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 This is how close I was.. Elevators were slightly up, rudder definitely wasn't straight (couldn't tell which way it was) flaps all the way extended. Is the stall speed of 100 with the flaps in or out? The change in surface area should change that. Either way, it was not plummeting. It was not nose up and stalling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 corrected the speeds from above after some research, I'm a Tomcat sailor and it's approach was 120knots I'm not trying to trivialize the crash but you need a basic understanding of how an F/A-18 flys. Approach/landing speed for the F/A-18 is 145knots that's nearly 170mph, stall speed is say 20-30knots less than that so say somewhere in the 140mph range. You do not have to be nose up to stall; stalling is when the air flowing over (above and below) the wings does not create enough lift to counter act gravity. At 100mph unless the nose is up and both engines are at nearly FMP (full military power) there is not enough lift from the wings to allow the aircraft to cheat gravity flaps out completely or not. BTW the in the situation described above the aircraft is staying aloft on engine thrust alone very similar to how a AV-8B Harrier does. It's posible for a Hornet to do this but not for any length of time. Also from all that I have read the aircraft that crashed had issues with both engines. The Truth of what happend will come out even if it isn't pollitically helpfull, I have seen that from the 2 naval aircraft crashes that I was assisted in the investigation of. And on a sick note one of the less than politically correct names for the hornet was "Lawn Dart" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted December 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 Yeah, no, I completely understood the speeds at which a Hornet operates. After all, how can you expect a plane that goes 1,200 miles per hour to gracefully glide. I used to be quite a military jet nerd. Favorite plane? The Convair Sea Dart! My understanding is that one of the engines was out as he was still over the ocean. Tried to limp back to MCAS, and the other one went out, right over the most active-whiniest-assertive neighborhoods they could. There wasn't any noise, not even from the plane hitting the ground, but the canopy obviously was quite loud when it popped off and the ejector seat went. My money is on the idea that there are gonna be committees and such formed and they are going to give MCAS enough hell that planes will be re-routed over Clairemont to the south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 My money is on the idea that there are gonna be committees and such formed and they are going to give MCAS enough hell that planes will be re-routed over Clairemont to the south. Planes are routed according to the prevailing winds/weather...20 years ago LaJolla liberals tried to change the flight control patterns at NAS Miraramar and the courts (just as liberal then as now) told them to F#$K off you should not have built your million dollar house in a known aircraft pattern. I don't expect any changes if they want the military's continued existance in San Diego. This is cynical of me to say but the Navy fought developent there for just this reason....occasionally airplanes fall out of the sky. BTW Claremont is out because of Montgomery field Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 This is how close I was..Elevators were slightly up, rudder definitely wasn't straight (couldn't tell which way it was) flaps all the way extended. Is the stall speed of 100 with the flaps in or out? The change in surface area should change that. Either way, it was not plummeting. It was not nose up and stalling. saw it all over the news. that's INSANE ! vibes to the father that lost his family :( <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIpLZQQxsCo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIpLZQQxsCo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted December 11, 2008 Report Share Posted December 11, 2008 just an addendum Standard Opperating Proceedure for an aircraft with one engine out is to send them to a shore airfield. It is unsafe to land such an aircraft on a carrier (you can catch them in the barricade but that is aircraft destruction). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted December 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 just an addendum Standard Opperating Proceedure for an aircraft with one engine out is to send them to a shore airfield. It is unsafe to land such an aircraft on a carrier (you can catch them in the barricade but that is aircraft destruction). Ohhhh...Gotchya. It might have been a good idea not to fly directly over four schools with only one engine. (he flew over Spreckles Elementary, 800 students; Standley Middle, 1200 students; Curie Elementary, 350 students; and UC High, 2000 students.) Quite troubling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Ohhhh...Gotchya.It might have been a good idea not to fly directly over four schools with only one engine. (he flew over Spreckles Elementary, 800 students; Standley Middle, 1200 students; Curie Elementary, 350 students; and UC High, 2000 students.) Quite troubling. All places the Navy told San Diego not to build 30-40 years ago for just that reason. Development has encroached on the base not the other way around. When I was born at Balboa hospital there weren't any houses between Rose and San Clemente canyons not to mention you could trail ride from Del Mar to Miramar Road through undeveloped land. I always found in interseting that it's not illegal to build a school in a flight pattern but it is illegal to build an airport next to a school. Miramar isn't the only place this has happened Va Beach is under the same troubles. The state there took the navy to court in an attemp to limit flying hours which though defeated has lead to a deep seated desire on the Navy's part to move airplanes out of Virginia completely and practice defending our nation in another state (like Top Gun moving to Nevada for instance) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted December 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 All places the Navy told San Diego not to build 30-40 years ago for just that reason. Development has encroached on the base not the other way around. When I was born at Balboa hospital there weren't any houses between Rose and San Clemente canyons not to mention you could trail ride from Del Mar to Miramar Road through undeveloped land. I always found in interseting that it's not illegal to build a school in a flight pattern but it is illegal to build an airport next to a school. Miramar isn't the only place this has happened Va Beach is under the same troubles. The state there took the navy to court in an attemp to limit flying hours which though defeated has lead to a deep seated desire on the Navy's part to move airplanes out of Virginia completely and practice defending our nation in another state (like Top Gun moving to Nevada for instance) Between Rose and San Clemente? Wow! No South University City! Thinking about it, there really is no way you can fly a plane to the base without going over a school. La Jolla Country Day (remember that one?) Muirlands, and La Jolla High to the north, and Clairemont High, Marston, and their mess of Elementary schools. Any idea how long Miramar has been around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 I lived in San Diego on and off from 1966 through 1995 nearly all of that time either my dad or I worked at Miramar. The air field as it stands now was established in 1940 I was there for the November 30, 1989 crash and spent a lot of time collecting aircraft pieces and taking photos. Mira Mesa UTC UC Carmel valley Sorento valley Scripps Ranch etc etc...for that matter most of whats north of Balboa ave was all built after the Navy started complaining about encroachemnt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted December 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Now Mission Trails Regional Park is cracking away at the base.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Mission trails used to be a bombing range....stray from the trails at your peril...I mean that seriously when I was there in the early 90s we cut a lot of MTB trails and found a lot of ordinance. We also used to ride into east Miramar a lot before 52 was extended to Santee not sure I would do that now...I think the Marines hump (hike) out there a lot not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted December 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 "Marines hump (hike) out" good call putting the hike in there. You know, the inspiration for innuendos is endless at age 15! There are many signs telling you basically to stay the hell out. Never would go very far out anyway. Scary stuff out there. Rusted out barrels with BIG bullet holes (not just a shotgun..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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