Kent Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 C-dales are crap. The only thing they've got going for them is a good marketing campaign. They do deserve props for the old Beast of the East. Evidently you've been living in a cave the past 5 years....the US CX Champ rides a Cannondale (and SPD, btw). The Cannondale CX frame (with or without SI) kicks serious ass and is a great value. To the original post...I think the comparison b/w a "cyclocross" bike and a "cross" bike is valid. Matter of fact, you might want to check into "urban" bikes...which is basically a 700c mountain bike without front suspension..kinda like a guy's fitness bikes without calling it a cross bike. If you do want a cyclocross bike..there is a BIG BIG BIG difference between a race-specific cx bikes and consumer based cx bike. So..if you're remotely interested in racing CX, start with that goal in mind rather than buying too cheap and having all the upgrades later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Evidently you've been living in a cave the past 5 years....the US CX Champ rides a Cannondale (and SPD, btw). Now you've got me currious kent. How many Cannondales have you worked on, how many have you warrantied, and how many shops that sell cannondale have you worked in? Yes, they are capable of making an o.k. bike, but I wouldn't count on getting one off the shelf. Some of the issues I have seen recently are bowed top tubes, tubes mitered and jiged up of center, and one frame with a seatstay wall thickness so thin that a twig picked up by the rear wheel sliced right through. As far as the Champ goes there, are we talking about his personal ride, or the bike he's racing and training on? Please remember than many contracts stipulate that athletes must appear in a sponsors apparel and on a sponsors brand equiptment for any cycling related event. When my buddy rode for Fat City Cycles back in the day he was technicaly required to be in his full team get-up even for a spin around the block with some friends. If it's something he picked up out of pocket, well then I just feel sorry for him. ...And no I havn't been living in a cave. It's a van down by the river. Just noticed your avatar, you ever run into my buddy Ron Rancourt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 How many Cannondales have you worked on, how many have you warrantied, and how many shops that sell cannondale have you worked in? Yes, they are capable of making an o.k. bike, but I wouldn't count on getting one off the shelf. Some of the issues I have seen recently are bowed top tubes, tubes mitered and jiged up of center, and one frame with a seatstay wall thickness so thin that a twig picked up by the rear wheel sliced right through.As far as the Champ goes there, are we talking about his personal ride, or the bike he's racing and training on? Please remember than many contracts stipulate that athletes must appear in a sponsors apparel and on a sponsors brand equiptment for any cycling related event. Just noticed your avatar, you ever run into my buddy Ron Rancourt? I never have run into Ron...... Oddly enough, TJ goes AGAINST his primary sponsor and rides Cannondale....below is his bike. Yes, I raced (and crashed) at Nationals this year. As for Cannondale...rather than "trial by internet", how about you give the model and make of the bikes you're claiming to have trouble? The only Cannondale bikes (that I'm aware of) that has any sort of design flaw is the Six13. As for all the other bikes...ALL the CAAD series, ALL the Synapse Series and ALL the System series ALL receive top of the heap reviews year after year. I would WITHOUT ANY DOUBT put a CAAD frame up against any alumuim frame on the market for both stiffness and durability. It's literally unmatched in in industry...it's legendary. Want a crit bike? Easy....buy a CAAD. I'm NOT a Cannondale fanatic...quite the opposite. My CX bikes are Focus...but good luck trying to get one in the US. Guess my point is that I don't believe in trial by internet..... http://www.efbe.de/testergebnisse/fulltest/enindex.php?typ=3&sort=1 K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Evidently you've been living in a cave the past 5 years....the US CX Champ rides a Cannondale (and SPD, btw)... not to dig at Tim since he is a Bones Brigade guy but he's sponsored by Cannondale...so for him the bikes are as disposable as a skateboard...use them up and replace them before they break...as for SPD's I don't care one way or another both sides have pluses and minuses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Kent, I'm not formulating my opinion off a couple of frames that I've owned or seen friends ride or heard others gripe about. I have nearly two decades experience as a full time, profesional bicycle mechanic and many of the shops I've worked in or managed have been Cannondale dealers. That said, I can understand why people like them, I just happen to think they've put more than their fair share of shoddily made bikes on the road. I'm basing this on my own personal experience, actual bikes, in the stand in front of me. Thousands of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtanner Posted June 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Any comments on these bikes? Bikesdirect has them on for cheap...I know I know support the LBS, but I need to complete a full evaluation of everything available. Honestly, I'm leaning toward a Kona JTS since a dealer is nearby. -Gord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 not to dig at Tim since he is a Bones Brigade guy but he's sponsored by Cannondale...so for him the bikes are as disposable as a skateboard...use them up and replace them before they break...as for SPD's I don't care one way or another both sides have pluses and minuses Doesn't work that way my friend..the product has to work while in competition. A broken bike means nothing during a 60 minute race, regardless of how much a rider is getting spiffed. He's sponsored by CyclocrossWorld. Just so happens HealthNet has a pretty tight relationship with Cannondale....and the whole trail from that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Kent, I'm not formulating my opinion off a couple of frames that I've owned or seen friends ride or heard others gripe about. I have nearly two decades experience as a full time, profesional bicycle mechanic and many of the shops I've worked in or managed have been Cannondale dealers. That said, I can understand why people like them, I just happen to think they've put more than their fair share of shoddily made bikes on the road. I'm basing this on my own personal experience, actual bikes, in the stand in front of me. Thousands of them. Then why not put up some evidence rather than acedotal comments? Heck...maybe even a link to a bad review? You could easily post to the recent Cannondale recalls....but done of them are for their frames. If you don't like Cannondale...that's totally cool. I think Burton sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Any comments on these bikes?Bikesdirect has them on for cheap...I know I know support the LBS, but I need to complete a full evaluation of everything available. Honestly, I'm leaning toward a Kona JTS since a dealer is nearby. -Gord Let's back up.... Are you looking for the cheapest cx bike you can find or looking to stay within certain parameters? i.e. carbon fork, 20 speed, 105 or higher, etc. K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 You could easily post to the recent Cannondale recalls....but done of them are for their frames. Great Suggestion. http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08534.html http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=cannondale+frame+recall Compared to http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=kona+frame+recall&btnG=Search Just a whole lot of remembering going on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Let's back up....Are you looking for the cheapest cx bike you can find or looking to stay within certain parameters? i.e. carbon fork, 20 speed, 105 or higher, etc. K It's all pretty clear in his first post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Doesn't work that way my friend..the product has to work while in competition. A broken bike means nothing during a 60 minute race, regardless of how much a rider is getting spiffed. He's sponsored by CyclocrossWorld. Just so happens HealthNet has a pretty tight relationship with Cannondale....and the whole trail from that point. The way it works for sponsored riders (people who get free gear) is that they get to move on to a new bike before the frame has reached it's lifespan...the way it works for the rest of us is frames reach their lifespan and then we move on...regardless the lifespan of the average C-dale frame is too short for me to consider. My skateboard analogy fails in today's world because skaters intentionally break their aging boards...in my day (and Tims too) you retired a board when it lost it's pop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtanner Posted June 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Let's back up....Are you looking for the cheapest cx bike you can find or looking to stay within certain parameters? i.e. carbon fork, 20 speed, 105 or higher, etc. K Kent, I'm not looking to cheap out at all. I just want something to ride around with friends on the weekend and hit the odd trail...and use to get around once in awhile instead of my car. To be honest, I don't know alot about carbon (benefits vs breakage) and I'm assuming you are reffering to Shimano 105 parts...so for me it's an affordable bike that has good value that won't break the bank and will last more than a week...not top of the line model. I guess I pictured a steel bike with shimano parts (ultegra seems to be an upgrade I can consider later) and some egg-beater pedals mounted on a good quality and versatile frame (seems to be CX) with drop handle-bars...hope that made sense... Thoughts/comments are always welcome. -Gord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 It's all pretty clear in his first post. Are you going to add anything constructive to this thread or are you just being a dick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Kent, I'm not looking to cheap out at all. I just want something to ride around with friends on the weekend and hit the odd trail...and use to get around once in awhile instead of my car. To be honest, I don't know alot about carbon (benefits vs breakage) and I'm assuming you are reffering to Shimano 105 parts...so for me it's an affordable bike that has good value that won't break the bank and will last more than a week...not top of the line model. I guess I pictured a steel bike with shimano parts (ultegra seems to be an upgrade I can consider later) and some egg-beater pedals mounted on a good quality and versatile frame (seems to be CX) with drop handle-bars...hope that made sense... Thoughts/comments are always welcome. -Gord Just checking.... IMO, I'd go with the carbon-forked Jake the Snake or a Felt F1x. Both can be bought this time of the year for around $1000. I'd also choose to buy locally...or through an authorized dealer. While BikesDirect has some good deals...I do think that ultimately you'll get better value from working with a LBS. But..if you're a wrench and enjoy tinkering with bikes....by all means, save the money and do BikeDirect. Why not the Cannondale? Easy...it's going to be more expensive. I don't know why Cannondale jacks up their bikes. Yes...technically they are stiffer, but not to justify the price increase. The important thing is to compare apples to apples. Most entry level CX bikes are going to cheap-out somewhere. IMO, I'd get a bike with full Shimano 105 10 speed or higher. Good luck. K To lighten things up a bit.... Last year's pair.... Good watchin. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkOhzvv-4vA&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkOhzvv-4vA&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRZOa_E9Qs8&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRZOa_E9Qs8&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Thanks Kent. Motorpace....hell yeah....... The second Cross Crusade video is close to home. Those guys are nuts with great attendance and tons of fun. They put our Seattle scene to shame but I will say we are growing steadily with a consistent 250 (for all cats) riders a race for the series. There is a friendly competition between the cities but I have to say the Portland folks do a supreme job.. Did you make it out here for the Nats last year? the weather was perfect for cross, and luckily I could use work as an excuse not to suffer the weekend. Im already jonzin for the races to start, we have our kickoff on labor day and run to December. Nice rides you have there, I wish I had a little spare cash for some upgrades. I second the 105 and recommend good wheels too. I would have to say the Redline comes off the shelf with some pretty sweet stuff for the money. Go LBS, unless you know exactly what you want and are willing to do all of you own tweaking to the bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Are you going to add anything constructive to this thread or are you just being a dick? :lol::lol::lol: Well golly kent, I thought posts #2 & #16 were somewhat worthwhile. As far as me being a dick goes, did you come up with that all on your own, or do you have a link to back it up? I guess I got a little off track when someone started into this thread by insinuating that I had no idea what I was talking about and then suggested that I had no right to offer an opinion based on my own experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Go LBS, unless you know exactly what you want and are willing to do all of you own tweaking to the bike. isn't that what tools are for???? maybe I'm in the minority in having a full set of tools and a bike stand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 I do too. Sounds like the OP is looking for off the shelf. I used to work on cars and still have the rollaway box as well as building a set of bike tools. Amazing how popular one can be in the parking lot before a race! My boys love to get into the expensive tools and I am constantly finding my good stuff with their crappy yard tools, I chalk it up to Karma and what I did to my dads tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtanner Posted June 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Ya I really don't know enough to go ahead and build a bike or be forced dismantle it right when I get it (although that could be a fun learning curve). Once I get off night-shift, I'll head to the bike shop and see what they have/recommend. -Gord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 We have a local shop that is a co-op and offers tools and stands for a small fee if you join as well as classes. Check you local area to see if they have any thing like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 A co-op can be a great resource for learning how to work on your own gear if you have one available to you. Take a close look at any shared by the public tools before you turn something on your bike with them though. Some times it's just an annoyance to replace a bolt with a stripped head, and other times it can be a major hassle. A rounded off allen wrench can quickly ensure that you won't be making that adjustment you had hoped to anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 in highschool and college I had access to a bike shop and learned how to work on everything but suspension (it was the 80's). Those skills have stayed with me and providied me a little money on the side, though mostly I do repairs and such just for the enjoyment of working on bicycles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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