dshack Posted February 19, 2007 Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 I'm on my 8th or 9th day of carving, and it's going pretty well. I'm riding a burton ultra prime around Mt Hood Meadows, working on form and getting different sorts of turns down, and occasionally dropping into the backside bowls. I've got a few technique issues, though: The whole "drive your knees into the slope" thing, combined with trying to keep my torso upright and rotated, did amazing things for my toeside turns. I was already trying to angulate, but when I tossed in a big knee bend, I could really feel the board carve a deep trench and pop me out at the end. I tried recreating that sensation on heelside, but I can't figure out what to do with my knees. On the 19cm waist, I'm riding angles that put my toes and heels flush with the edges, a bit over 45 front and rear. This means that a lot of my turning power is coming from front-back toe and heel pressure, and when I try to make a good heelside turn, I feel like I'm either sticking my butt out, straightening my legs, or washing my tail out. This manifests itself in the fairly wavy heelside trenches I leave. Yesterday I tried cranking up my binding angles, to about 60/60. Instantly I felt my heelside get a lot stronger- it was a lot easier to visualize driving my knees sideways and into the turn than backwards. My toesides didn't seem to suffer noticably from the change, either. Is this a poor-quality solution to the problem? I did notice that I lost a lot of mogul/powdermound manuverability when I cranked the angles up. Does it have to be a trade-off between power and maneuverability, or is there a technique change I should make with lower angles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshack Posted February 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 IMO, rather than thinking of driving the knees on the heel side turn, I would think about lifting the toes while maintaining an aggressive stance (i.e. bent knees, butt relatively low but not bottomed out). Granted, everyone's style is different and everyone will have a different opinion. Photos would be good if you could have a friend take some of you. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horseman Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Just as there is no perfect board for all conditions, there is no perfect binding angle for all conditions. The differences you feel between 45 and 60 seem reasonable. Maneuverability/balance at the lower angle and carving power at the higher. It would seem as though between the 45 and the 60 there is a lot of room for compromise. 50? 55? Pick something in the middle and see where you find the most benefits of each with the fewest trade-offs. And just a warning about doing too much tweaking and not enough riding. Especially in the beginning (and I am still in the beginning myself) it's easy to tweak angles/cant/lift on every run searching for the perfect set-up when the fact is that your body is not experienced enough to recognize the perfect setup even if you lucked into it. Some adjustments will be so far out of whack that they are just wrong, but by and large make a small adjustment of just one or two parameters and then live with it until you really understand what it is doing for you (or against you). Sounds like you're making great progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshack Posted February 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Yeah, I've been trying to limit myself to one or two adjustments per day. If I can remember places my stance felt wrong at the end of the day, I mess with it before I go out the next time, and occasionally once more on the slope. I've got burton bindings with unicants, though, so adjusting anything is a really lame endeavor. I'll try the lifting the toes thing, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Just as there is no perfect board for all conditions, there is no perfect binding angle for all conditions. Good points Horseman. The binding angles I ride depend on the board I am riding. On my 18cm waist board (FC1), I ride 55*/50*. On my 19cm board (GS), I ride 50*/45*. On my 21cm waist board (AM), I ride 45*/40*. Foot size is also a factor in your binding angles; I wear size 26 boots.I try to ride as square of angle as I can without having toe or heel drag. I want the pressure applied from boot/binding to be as near the edge of the board as possible. Yes, it does take a few turns to adjust to the different angles, but then again, the two boards are completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 It's hard to find something that will allow you to generate edge well on both sides and still offer some stability when riding off the groomers. The fact is, though, that the two turns are physiologically different and that different tactics have to be used, especially at lower angles. If you are only using one board, you can adjust angles depending on conditions. If it's going to be a carving day, set yourself up at the higher angles. This will allow you to use side to side knee movement to create edge angle and have a turn that feels similar, left and right. When you go to low angles, the same side to side knee movement creates pressure on the tip or tail, rather than edge to edge, like high angles. There is nothing you can do about this, other than get knees on both sides, like a horse or a dog. So, at low angles on heelside, if you have to use the next joint up to create edge, you're having to use your hips. This is inneficient as you can't get that low all the time and have any kind of stability over your board... your core mass will be too far away from your edge. What's the solution? If you can't get high edge angles on your heels with low angles, you'll have to use the next best thing. Pressure control and steering. I like a good back foot pivot, lifting the nose to a higher line, while really looking across the hill, rather than down into the fall line. It really does take more effort to make the same radius turn on your heels. It occurs to me as well that a modern assymetrical board could have a symmetrical shape, but a deeper sidecut on the heel edge. It may straight run a bit squirrely, but, you'd get used to it. I wonder if any manufacturer does this already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshack Posted February 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 So, at low angles on heelside, if you have to use the next joint up to create edge, you're having to use your hips. This is inneficient as you can't get that low all the time and have any kind of stability over your board... your core mass will be too far away from your edge. What's the solution? If you can't get high edge angles on your heels with low angles, you'll have to use the next best thing. Pressure control and steering. I like a good back foot pivot, lifting the nose to a higher line, while really looking across the hill, rather than down into the fall line. It really does take more effort to make the same radius turn on your heels. I'll give this a try Saturday when I run low angles for the powder we've got here at Mt. Hood. There are people that normally carve with low-angles, right, like the pureboarding and EC folk? How do they manage good, stable heelsides? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 When I talk about "low angles" I mean anything where your knees and hips, used in a side to side motion, would create pressure tip and tail, rather than pressure, edge to edge. The EC crew use "low" angles, but only in relation to those used on narrower boards. Their boards are wider, so they can run "flatter" angles with no toe or heel drag AND still use their knees and hips edge to edge. They still set up to avoid overhang, just like any racer, though. I don't fcuk around. I am not looking for that "One Board" that will do it all. For me, it doesn't exist. When I set up to hard boot, I angle the bindings forward, until there is no overhang and my edge angle is much more even side to side. I make no allowances for off-piste stability on this setup, because it is never going there. When I freeride, I use 28 f / -2 r. This still allows me to rail, but not on the steep stuff, unless I want to go 90 in the fall line. The tradeoff is the general increase in stabilty. If you do think that one board can do it all (and I have to say that there are people here who can get it done that way) I would suggest a wider board, allowing lower angles (Nothing over 45) and a wider stance (at least shoulder width... maybe an inch wider). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 I have the wavy heelside problem as well, and for me the solution is as simple as rocking back on the heels ("lifting the toes" is a great visual), and letting the board do all the work. When the edge starts to waver it's a sign that I'm trying to force the board too hard, my weight has come off-centre and my legs are too straight. It's harder than it sounds to trust the board and allow it to turn, and I still find it difficult to just pressure through the ankles to drive the edge. But the mimimum of work on the heelside seems to work really well for me. From the toeside turn just unweight and rock back, keeping the knees gentle and the weight over the centre, and the board will just follow around. Don't try to sit down or change the body position, just let the board come around you. A little bit of speed/a slightly steeper slope helps a lot, then it's easier to feel the board follow the carve - at lower speed and gentler slope you can sometimes end up on your butt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 You hit that bang on, Allee. Once your baseplate heel loops are in contact with the snow, you can't tip it over anymore. Thats when pressure control has to take over. I really get into the back foot pivot, though, if I want to keep carving AND tighten the radius of the turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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