D-Sub Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 shane there are people here who ride TD2s very, very often. Many days a season. The majority of them have never had anything break on their TD2s. Quite a few of them had TD1s before, and still no breakage the fact that you broke 2 bolts in such a short period suggests something is up, and it really does look like it has to do more with you/your setup than the bindings. I have to say that your tone seems accusatory, and almost condescending. Plenty of people use these bindings without failure but it seems as though you are insinuating that the construction quality is somehow lacking. I and many other experienced users disagree. You have ever right to be concerned, and every right to want to discuss those concerns, but I would say that you are going a bit far with your posts and insinuations. Think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 You have ever right to be concerned, and every right to want to discuss those concerns, but I would say that you are going a bit far with your posts and insinuations. Think about it. Not to get involved in what will soon be yet another internet flame war (oops, too late), but I don't think Shane is being accusatory or condescending. He says he broke shoulder bolts and everybody jumps down his throat for setting everything up wrong. Yeah, his last post sounds a little frustrated, but I bet he feels the way I'd feel if I just got off the phone from tech support having answered, "Yes, the monitor and computer are both plugged in and turned on; I'm not a complete moron," repeatedly for a few hours. I mean no offense to anybody who thinks it was user error; when bulletproof things break there is unavoidable confusion and frustration. He's already contacted bomber and it's being dealt with, so let's just nip this in the bud and let this one go, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 ken. no flame war here. not from me at least. if I misinterpreted, I apologize, but I do not think so. From the first post it seemed to me that the OP was looking to accuse rather than get to the heart of the matter. again, if I was mistaken, I apologize. The fact that there are hundreds of users, many of them daily drivers, who have not experienced failure helps a lot though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spcarves2 Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 This kid could rip back in the early 90's. The first "North Shore Team Rider" in Bend, Oregon. Good to see you are still riding plates. D-Sub, lay off him...he's no dummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 hang on a sec when and where did I call him a dummy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrocks Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 I kind of agree with D-sub here. Funny thing about the internet though, tone is very hard to convey. Everyone is concerned about what the cause of the breakage is. Everyone would like to know how to prevent it. If its an adjustment issue, cool. If its a material weakness, cool. What do we have to do to fix it. Apparently Shane has talked to Bomber and got some info from them. What did they have to say? As far as micro adjusting the bindings during the day to account for sizing differences due to temp changes, I don't think that's needed. If the bindings are set up correctly they should stay pretty close. Its not like you lose a 1/2 inch in sole length. The micro adjuster just allows you to get the fit closer than the other macro adjustments do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Funny thing about the internet though, tone is very hard to convey. yes, it is. I will say again that apparently my tone was misinterpreted (both kjl and spcarves) so, again, I apologize for wording things wrongly. My point stands though, and is valid in my opinion. I called no one names, especially not dummy. Everyone is concerned about what the cause of the breakage is. Everyone would like to know how to prevent it. If its an adjustment issue, cool. If its a material weakness, cool. What do we have to do to fix it. absolutely. As far as micro adjusting the bindings during the day to account for sizing differences due to temp changes, I don't think that's needed. Shane misinterpreted this somehow. No one said such a thing as far as I can see. That would be a PITA indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane groshong Posted January 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 So this has gotten a little heated. That was not my intention. My intention was to get a response and solution to my problem with the TD2s. I may have seemed a little defensive in response to some posts, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Since my first breakage I have ordered another pair. Now I have three pairs of TD2s. If I felt like the product sucked I would not be riding them. I just sold off a pair of Cateks even after I broke my TD2s. My loyalty to the product is based on all the feedback of users of this site that support Fin and the products he makes. I got back into riding last season, and have been buying all the boards and bindings I can afford. I did this to see what I liked and what I wanted to ride in the future. I think this has gone too far, but here's the deal..... When I see a whole site dedicated to alpine snowboarding, and bomber's product I want the best for them. We all know these are the only people we've got to keep us in the loop. I know bomber builds the best binding on the market, and I only want to make them better and see our sport succeed. Consider this as the motivation for my posting. It seems that there is a trend for people to point out the right and wrongs of riding, or how we should be riding, rather than support the people that ride because they love alpine snowboarding. We all know how sweet it is to carve a big alpine board. There are a lot of skidders out there who only dream of doing what we are able of doing on a snowboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Can you post pictures of how/where the bolts break? (Excpect hordes of armchair disaster reconstructionst reverse engineers to offer theories on everything from metallurgy to your posture and diet. But also expect some interesting things from this reading-the-tea-leaves exercise.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 shane it only got heated because I rub people the wrong way. More often than not it is unintentional. yes...carving is a blast. yes...we all want fin/jenney, bomber, to succeed...you meant no harm, I meant no harm. lets hope this all pans out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Can you post pictures of how/where the bolts break?(Excpect hordes of armchair disaster reconstructionst reverse engineers to offer theories on everything from metallurgy to your posture and diet. But also expect some interesting things from this reading-the-tea-leaves exercise.) :lol: :lol: :lol: Good way to disarm a potential flaming!!!! Good work guys...!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 I don't think he sounds accusatory. Jack, I thought that I had read that steel was able to handle infinite cycles as long as the stress didn't get the part into the plastic region. I think I read this in a discussion on steel bike frames vs. aluminum, where (supposedly) aluminum frames have a finite life and steel frames don't. But I've also heard that stress cycles on steel Burton bails causes them to fail after a few years. So I'm not sure what the real deal is. Any engineers here know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Disclaimer: I am not flaming anyone! I had read that steel was able to handle infinite cycles as long as the stress didn't get the part into the plastic region. That statement is absolutely incorrect. If that was the case, fatigue failure would not be much of an issue because noone designs products/components where stresses intentionally enter the plastic region. Fatigue cracks propagate from surface imperfections, machining flaws, oxide formation, and any other mechanisms where a stress concentration is formed on the surface of a component. Fatigue crack propagation is a function of the notch sensativity of the material as well as the materials resistance to the crack growth/blunting process. Both of these are dependent on material properties as well as environmental conditions. Yes, applied load have a huge affect on the fatigue mechanism. Anytime the applied repetative load correspond with a stress above the yield strength of the material, fatigue crack propagation and failure will occur in a short amount of time. The lower the applied loads, the more time and number of loading cycles are required for the component to fail. ------------------------------------------------------ Preload has a huge impact of the stress that is transmitted to a part/component. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 I'm wondering what Fin or Bob would/did say. The rest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane groshong Posted January 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 D.T. Very nice post. It went over my head, but it definitely sounds like you know what you are talking about when it comes to stress/fatigue and so on. In response to wavechaser: Fin emailed and asked me to send the broken parts and bindings back to bomber, and said he would take care of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paappraiser Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 The micro-adjustment you're asking about is done by threading/unthreading the bails into or out of the shoulder bolt. If you start to see the threads, as in the picture below, you've gone too far. That pic is from this article, you might find it helpful. How tight do you have your toe clips? I need 3 fingers and a little oomph.. If im feeling lazy Ill just use 2 hands, but I dont need to.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane groshong Posted January 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 So I don't know if I am the guy to ask. I use two fingers, but I generally always take my glove off so I can really get a grip.According to the the directions that come with TD2's it says, "toe clip latches securely down onto boot". I can tell you this I have, I have no play in the set-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 DT, thanks for the great post. I guess that's why mechanics are always warned not to scratch or nick parts like connecting rods. I understand the importance of preload from reading about engine assembly. It seems natural that the effects would translate to bindings also. I've seen three or four boots come out of standard bindings, luckily none of them caused injuries. In all but one it was because they were too loose to begin with, and in the other one it was because the lever was adjusted too high (not over-center enough). It just about took two hands to close the binding but it only took a couple of fingers to open it. That was on Burton Race Plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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