SnowNBeachAddict
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Mario,
With all due respect to your most recent comment and others on this board that may be upset such as yourself. You are correct in that it is not fun to kick someone when they are down. This story has 3 sides, Fin's, Angie's and Jim's. The three of them are truly the only people that know all of the facts of which some appear to be in dispute never to be resolved.
I think many of us come to this forum (thanks Jack) to discuss what went on and many of us have a lot of questions and opinions (as the saying goes opinions are like a$$holes---everyone's got one). For the most part I haven't read anything highly offensive on this board, just opinions, though some highly charged at times. I am guilty of that I will confess so if I have said anything that offended anyone I do apologize. Keep in mind a great business and tightly bonded community and customers within that community were impacted, some losing good amounts of monies.
As soon as we arrived at Jim & Angie's first ATC (2016) and observed how the event was being run, the new expensive van and other things some of us had a hunch things might not end well. I say this as there were numerous people making similar comments about their observations as well (new van with wrap, huge house that was seemingly excessive, etc.).
Before getting into my thoughts, a little about my background. Years ago I did several years doing analyst work for the SBA (Small Business Administration) going out into the community to help failing business's that had SBA loans nearing default. My job was to analyze the business, recommend solutions in order to save the loan and to prevent the company from having to file BK. I did this while in college and during this same time I also helped my parents run a mid size construction firm they owned during summer breaks. Owning a business is tough and risky. Usually there isn't much time for fun! I subsequently spent 15+ years as an Advisory Consultant/Director/Sr. PM in a tech firm managing projects of $500 million+ or more. So I have some decent business background in addition to about 29 years of snowboarding and some of that spent working and helping a couple of the business's in various capacities. As such I am a little familiar with the industry and our hb niche as well.
When they filed BK for Bomber I took a look at the detailed data in the BK filing documents as I wanted to understand what went down a little better (and I like to work on facts as much as possible). As you are aware Fin bought out his partners in around 1993. He successfully ran the business for about 22+ years until he decided it was time to sell and move on to something new. The business provided him with a rather solid income (I am sure lean in some years since the business is somewhat dependent on snow) and it also provided employment to 1 to 2 other individuals.
After reviewing the detailed financial information from the BK filing and later down the road taking a look at a detailed business prospectus that Fin put together (and it was VERY detailed) I spent some time running basic numbers because I wanted a better picture of things just for my own personal knowledge/understanding. Without getting into the "nitty gritty" here are some key facts/observations/opinions/questions:
1. The sale of Bomber according to records was in May of 2015 in the amount of $210,672. Agreement terms are unknown. As others have said on this thread the sale did not include the machinery (I think that went to a different company) and if my memory is correct Fin kept the bail bender (though I may be wrong).
2. Fin's prospectus was very what we call "T&L" tight and lean and also paying himself a respectable and reasonable salary. We had the opportunity to spend time in Fin's factory some years ago and I can personally say he ran a tight ship (he knew the inventory down to the screws).
3. Right out of the gate what is the biggest difference between Fin running the business and Jim & Angie? Besides Jim and Angie not having the equipment in house? A big difference that would have to be taken into consideration by any buyers is the fact that Fin produced a chunk of the goods in house on premises. Jim and Angie did not have that luxury and that is a big cost savings to Fin (live where you work).
4. Did Jim & Angie perform due diligence before buying the business? Did they have a firm look at the contract taking into consideration what their costs would be? Did they have a lawyer review the contract? Did they ask for copies of the past 3 years of tax returns? Did they do a projected cash flow? Did they audit receipts? I don't know the answer to this, but surely if that had been done some costs and overhead expenses (fixed and variable) would have been taken into consideration. Did they have a written business plan? Seems if they had truly done proper due diligence they would have gone into this with eyes wide open and known the relevant facts.
5. Did Jim or Angie have prior experience running a small business? Did they have intimate knowledge of the snowboarding industry? market? demographics?
6. Jim & Angie obtained a loan from Alpine Bank in the amount of $90K in May of 2015 (terms unknown) in addition to obtaining a loan through a private individual in the amount of $50K (terms unknown). I am not sure if they took other loans or had liquid assets available at the time of purchase. What we do know is that based on these 2 facts they had approximately $140K in operating cash to start with (and that operating cash was also debt). There are 2 pretty hard and fast rules about small business. 1) Likely failure is within the first 24 to 30 months and 2) Owner should have 18 months of operating cash on hand and access to an additional 6 months for a total of 24 months operating cash on hand/readily accessible.
7. They moved from their rental house to a larger house assuming a new liability of $4K per month in rent living in a much larger space, but not manufacturing from the space. The business did not warrant a retail showroom especially given the location and little to no foot traffic nor retail storefront visibility. At $4K per month that is $48K PER YEAR in rental expenses!
8. They purchased a 2015 Ford Transit 350T for a purchase price of 49,650.20 amounting to monthly payments of $819.17 over 60 months. They wrapped the van for an unknown cost (best guesstimate is 4-5K). They could have purchased a used van for a reasonable price and kept the graphics to a minimum.
9. Their payment to Alpine Bank on a loan of $90K was estimated at about $1,800 per month.
9. Their monthly payment to Fin was an estimated amount of $3,500 (assumes $210K paid over 60 months).
10. Their monthly payment of a personal $50K loan is unknown, so an estimated monthly payment of say $500 over 60 months.
11. At the time they purchased the business Angie was making a salary of $61K (though collecting $71,500). Jim's salary is unknown, but per BK filing not substantial. For ease of calculation let's assume after taxes she brought home $4,200 per month (no dependents).
12. Monthly expenses that we know from the above (does not include other expenses which we do not have facts for) = $10,619.17 and this is a low number, excluding other personal and business expenses for which I don't have detailed information. My best guess is total monthly was running around 14-17K taking product and other expenses into account.
13. We know they had approximately $140K cash (also debt) on hand when they started the business plus access to Angie's monthly salary of an estimated say $4,200 net per month. This right here is a red flag. The bare bones minimum of expenses (which is well under actual) is 10-11K per month. Keep in mind this amount excludes production and acquisition of products.
14. Did hardgood vendors (boots and boards) provide a line of credit to Jim and Angie or were the account(s) on COD? This too impacts cash flow.
15. Did Jim and/or Angie have the skills to tweak existing products? Develop new products? Did they have access to more capital to do R&D?
16. Numerous people have stated they had a poor customer service experience during Jim and Angie's tenure.
17. Assuming the cost burdens of putting on ATC in the winter of 2016. Perhaps this should have been a off year while they got the business up and running and on solid footing.
18. They had to rely on others to manufacture the goods (excludes boots and boards). This is a weak spot and does not appear to have been taken into consideration during the due diligence process (or lack thereof).
19. While I don't have access to review the buyer/seller agreement I did look at the detailed data in the prospectus Fin sent and the numbers work (though tight). I trust Fin and don't believe he was dishonest. At all. Period.
20. Owning a business requires blood, sweat, tears and shrewd finances.
21. Assuming $15K (see #12, $10,619 + say $4K) per month in expenses (very very rough estimate based on above plus padding for product, materials etc) in my humble opinion they would have needed to have access to $360K in funds to safely sustain them over a 24 month period. In my humble opinion the business didn't have a chance from the start because they took on unnecessary/high expenses combined with irresponsible personal spending (at least according to the news reports). At the $15K per month estimate they would have blown through their cash from the loans within about 9 months. They started the company on about day 1 with approximately a total debt of $400,322.20 ($210,672+$90,000+$50,000.00+$49,650.20). According to the paper and warrant the theft started 11/2015 which is about 6 months from the time they purchased the company. It is also worth noting they really didnt have any personal skin in the game as it appears the did this using loans (other people's money). This isn't the most optimal way to start a small business or any business for that matter. High debt, low cash and high expenses:(
The above is just some basic information. Sit back and take a closer look. They took on large and unnecessary expenses, combined with $400K in debt out of the gate and only $140K in cash on hand. It appears they failed to do proper due diligence to make sure the deal would work for their financial situation (which was much different than Fin's) and lack of sufficient operating capital needed to sustain the business and get it on a solid footing within the first 24 months from date of purchase.
I am truly sad for Fin, for all those that have experienced less than than professional customer service and those that paid for goods that were never received. The alarming part in all of this is that the website was up and running and still taking orders when they knew that they could not fulfill the orders and were preparing to file BK.
While bad things happen to good people this whole sad thing that has happened could have easily been avoided. It is going to be a tough road for Angie and Jim (especially Angie). The consequences of her actions will impact her life for years to come. At least she admitted to what she did when she was caught (though would she have admitted to it if she wasn't caught?) If the court/jury finds her guilty or Angie gets a plea deal and she accepts/completes her punishment she will have paid her debt to society and we hope that she will somehow land on her feet.
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1 hour ago, davekempmeister said:
plenty of businesses change hands on little or nothing more than a promissory note. often this is preferable to another offer that includes some or even lots of cash, for many reasons and not all of them to do with money. particularly if the buyer is thought to be a known quantity and is perceived as the most knowledgeable, most motivated or whatever. countless variables, really. I am sure Fin made what he felt was the best decision, at the time.
it seems impossible to me that any of this was "the plan". i think two people met doing something that they loved, fell in love with each other, and dreamed earnest dreams. later, reality hit hard and the pressures gave way to a first (really) bad decision. then another and another.
if the article is accurate, the improprieties were acknowledged, when confronted. Angie may have been relieved, even. they have not "fled". by no means am i defending anyone but none of this takes the appearance of a diabolical scheme or con. i understand that many were wronged, not least Fin. theft of public funds and defrauding financial institutions is grave, yes. but I do not believe that something like this has real malice, at it's center. real malice is the guy who sits in the living room of a Senior Citizen with mild dementia (not in a nursing home yet) and high pressure sells them something that they do not need that takes 2/3 of their life savings. that's who i reserve my anger for.
*********while i was typing, Jack posted the article that states; "ex red brick director turns self in at pitkin county jail"*********
answering to charges voluntarily is not the normal m.o. of the hardened, career criminal set, believe me.
FYI The articles and the DA filings state the embezzlement started in 11/2015. If I recall (Jack or someone else knows the date) I think they purchased Bomber in May of 2015 or close to that time period. If this is correct the theft of funds started not long after they purchased the business (sometime within 6 months). On top of this they took out a loan with Alpine bank when they purchased Bomber. The fact the theft seems to have started not too long after purchasing the business and obtaining a loan against the business from Alpine Bank to me speaks volumes. Also failure to fulfill orders running 90 days to prior to filing BK speaks volumes as does failure to claim some assets when the filed their BK forms.
It is quite stunning she was trying to make money off of providing people with career advice. What I find more troubling is per this website https://www.easybizstart.com/about-us/ she is also advising small business(s).
On a small positive note at least she admitted to the theft when she was fired from her job and she turned herself in willingly, though I seriously doubt she would have willingly admitted the theft had she not been caught. The road to redemption starts with payment of the debt and whatever punishment the courts decide. Everyone deserves a second chance once they have paid their debts to society. I hope part of this is Fin getting some monies back and those people who's monies she and Jim kept are somehow repaid (though doubtful as the debt was discharged in BK). They used funds from those orders to pay over 9K to the BK attorney. It is all just sad.
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All,
Back when this all came out right before the Bomber BK filing there was a long post/thread (may have been on the FB Alpine Snowboard group) where a person posted that they were disabled and had been saving for boots and other equipment for a long time (if I recall their equipment was old they said). They indicated they placed an order for like 1K and never got the product. Does anyone know who this person may be and if they were able to get a credit via their cc company? It would be nice to know because if they never got their equipment perhaps we can help somehow. That post and what happened to that person still bothers us to this day. If anyone knows please send me a PM. Thanks
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WOW just found this................simply stunned
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Hi,
2 peeps here..............want to register. How can we pay/register and where on earth do we find lodging?
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Saw a couple of people asking if the BK was filed on time. The article above references a deadline of last Friday for filing of financial information. I can confirm the financial documents required by the court were in fact filed (public information). I did take a look at the financials (which anyone can do) as I am a curious nerd (hubs calls me a nosey geek haha- though I do have a background having completed an internship years ago with the SBA). I was curious as to the financials to see what kind of story they would tell. The financials definitely weave a story. It will be interesting to see what transpires. I believe the court does a 90 day look back and carefully scrutinizes all transactions in that 90 day window prior to filing.
This whole thing is one big sad mess:(( I hope that Fin can bring it back to life and those who ordered product either get their money back or the product(s) they ordered. (heavy sigh)
As a side note if you ordered product that was not received a fairly detailed listing of inventory held is part of the financial documents. You can look at the inventory to see if they have/had product to fulfill your order.
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41 minutes ago, big mario said:
Talked to Jim about it. Lawyer stuff basically
Thanks for checking :)
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Question......why is the BOL store still up and running if in chapter 7 BK? Does this mean they have inventory and orders are being processed? Seems to me if not the online storefront should be taken down:(
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Why is the store still up if they are filing chapter 7 has me confused:((( According to the BK docs (available online) the assigned trustee is listed below:
Jared Walters
PO Box 804
Eagle, CO 81631
970-456-3395
jcWalters7@gmail.com
If your credit card company declines to issue a credit I recommend contacting the court assigned trustee listed above.
Best wishes to you and am sorry this has happened:(
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This is all so sad for our small community and especially those persons that placed orders that never received their products. For those that didn't receive their products if your credit card (or PayPal) won't issue refunds for whatever reasons I recommend you go online and get a copy of the BK filing (it is public record) and make sure you are listed on the creditor matrix. If you are not listed consider contacting the receiver listing in the filing document. I know the odds are low of getting your money back, but one never knows. There are some debts that can't be discharged in BK (such as taxes) and the judge has some leeway in certain instances.
I have been thinking that this really must impact Fin the most. He worked 20+ years pouring his heart and soul into his company and now to have something like this happen :(((((((( I hope he is able to get the company back and get it back on track. He did a wonderful job running his business. Purchasing or buying a small business is risky and requires a ton of blood, sweat and tears along with managing finances down to the last penny and screw. A business often fails within the first 3 years if not managed diligently and sadly in this case that is what appears to have happened.
Hugs to all and best wishes for a great winter season
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Cross posting----see below. If you are interested in attending please PM me or slopestar (I am slower in checking messages---thanks)
Looks like we have tentative approval for the 2016 California Carvers Classic (aka SNES) for 3/19 and 3/20 barring POW and/or change of plans/approval by June Mountain (Carlo and Neil will be keeping in contact with them regularly). Tentative plans are private roped off run on gunsmoke, mid-day groom locker/tables at base of chair 4 and BBQ likely at stewpots or the main lodge. As always we each chip in a little $ (whatever you can afford no amount too small) to give over a gift card to ski patrol and to the groomer that grooms mid day just for us.
***Also note this is a kid friendly event!!!!!****
You can PM me for further details and monitor the thread at http://forums.bomberonline.com/index.php?%2Ftopic%2F42694-june-snes-2016%2Fpage-2 -
All date moved to 3/19-3/20. Per Carlo the person at the mountain needs a bit more time to obtain approval and coordinate. The first week of March was just too soon to get all this done. Thanks!
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All,
Carlo spoke with Eric yesterday and he communicated to Carlo that 3/5-3/6 OR 3/19 or 3/19-3/20 weather permitting and as long as Mammoth does not schedule something on those dates. He indicated he also had to get the official "ok" as well. He said all other dates for March do not work. He said to check back with him regularly to make sure the dates work. Carlo and Neil have his contact information. So as it stands now 3/5-3/6 are the dates and i am going to assume 3/19-3/20 are back up dates unless Eric tells us other wise.
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Thanks Neil for your help. Just spoke to Carlo and he said he "might" be able to do 3/5.
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Neil,
Can you reach out to Eric and see what date(s) work for him? Carlo may be up the 27th/28th so he can try to get with Eric if you can't. On another note back last month we spoke with one of the groomers and he indicated he would be willing to groom mid day if Eric gives him the "ok". They appreciated the gift certificate last time:) PM me on fb if you want.
How about 3/12-3/13 or 4/2-4/3? Definitely need to avoid Easter. June has been getting crowded lately, though great for business:)
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All,
There are about 7 other riders that I need to contact when dates are finalized as they dont use this forum. IMHO I recommend anytime in March or April other than the first weekend of March and Easter weekend. Also might want to have a back up date in case of a major dump on the date selected.
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Hi,
We are open to any weekend except 3/5-3/6. Also note we might have some "special guests" this year:)
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Welcome Henry!
Along with common friends we're both part of a growing contingency of rebuilt riders. So did Carlo even notice a dent in his collection, lol?
See you in Aspen.
Al
No dent Al.....no.dent.at.all
love your statement>>> "a growing contingency of rebuilt riders"......................isn't that the truth! But we are alive and breathing so it is all good........... -
Hi,
I sent a email to you at Chris.b.allen1@gmail.com. Please check your email when you can. I am inquiring on the 163's. Thanks
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Hi,
I sent a email to you at Chris.b.allen1@gmail.com. Please check your email when you can. I am inquiring on the 163's. Thanks
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PSL has been removed from 2018 Olympics :(
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We have some stuff we might be willing to loan you next time we are up, though boots may be an issue. Do you know what size mondo boots you need and what is your regular shoe size. We are happy to help you out if possible. It is kind of late for this year as not sure if we will be back up to MM. Definitely next year (praying we have snow).
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Michelle,
Thanks so much for your assistance over the past several years. We wish you the best in your new adventures!!!!! Hope we see you at SES in 2017!
All the best!
Carlo & Brooke
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Anyone confirm the dates and has anyone spoke with Eric? Don't think we will make it if it is the 28/29 as Carlo is planning on Tahoe.
love your statement>>>
Felony charges for former Bomber owners
in The Lodge
Posted
Today the saga has ended and there is final resolution (well except for customers that didn't get their orders and personal loans from friends). Hopefully after this she will have been fully rehabilitated and her debt to society paid.
https://www.aspentimes.com/news/ex-red-brick-director-offers-apology-gets-90-days-in-jail/
https://www.aspentimes.com/news/local/angela-callen-gets-90-days-for-theft-from-red-brick-in-aspen/