brodster_57

From reading the posts it sounds like you may need to experiment with stance width and toe and/or heellift. What angles to you ride? What is your comfortable stance width? I personally use a little toe lift with medium heel lift and no canting. Around 60 degs on both feet with a 19.75" stance. So once the basic equipment issues are dealt with, you can than move on to technique. Although mant times it is a technique issue it sounds like this may be equipment. I will tell you that shifting your weight sometimes is awkward and comes with practice. If you want to shift your weight forward I would recommend driving forward from the hips and not the upper body, and feeding the board through the turn of course so that rear portion is pressured at the end. Also you may not be aligned properly on the board. I found I was having trouble engaging the nose of my board on heelside, and if I tried to dive, the board would slip out from under me. So I tried to everything from weight shift to torsional twisting of the board. I also experiment with canting too. What was the problem? My arse was not were it was supposed to be. I found this out when I rotated into my heelside turn. I am not necessarily advocating a rotational style but it felt like I was rotating because my butt was hanging out like on a freestyle board. My suggestion is to get video taped. Then through some analysis of it you can eliminate the technique possibility.

Thats a pretty cool softboot heelside carve picture. However I have to ask what binding angles the rider in that pic is using. If they are relatively low (like below 30 deg.) it looks like their is too much twisting at the torso and too much rear knee tuck. I found that doing this is less efficient than relaxing into your stance and doing the constipated squat. Twisting and tucking the rear knee caused me too much chatter on the hardpack and bumpy snow. I was not aware I tucked that back knee until I saw it on video, I found that keeping the body properly aligned gave me way more control over the entire length of the edge as well. Unfortunately I see no solution to the constipated squat. It is the reality of low angled stances. As far as rider's needing to find the right equipment and that soft boots may be the answer for some with carving, this may be true, but again is very circumstantial. There is no avoiding the laws of nature and physics. As far as I am concerned it looks like Dad was right when he used to yell at me for hammering in a nail with the handle of a screw driver. I find it kind of similar to those people using saran wrap or plastic bags for condoms. It works, it may work well, and some people may have even mastered the art. But the question is not whether it is right or wrong, but whether it is efficient or inefficient?

Not a softy heelside but a low angle heelside (yes I realize he has softies on.) But this is a matter of taste as well. The low angle heelsides I think look really cool and surfy as well as the low angle toeside. But yes, I love the high anlge look as well. Needless to say a low angle heelside performs nothing like a high angle heelside.

This is an interesting arguement. But we have to get back to the orginal post. Can softsboot carve as well as hardboots (if not better than hardboots) all things being equal of course. Many have argued that the new soft boots offer more support and are stiffer. Also that soft boot bindings now have more support and are stiffer. This is true, and the new equipment allows much better carving ability on softies. I think the problem is that people should stop seeing such a black and white difference between hard and soft boots. The hard booters think soft booters are a punch of punk kids with baggy pants, and the soft booters think hard booters are a bunch of skier panzies. And obviously it is just plain and simple stereo typing. Despite the fact that many on each side tend to fit right into the stereo type, we all still do the same thing...snowboard. Once you can get out of this thought pattern you can see that soft, hard, freestyle and race boards, boots, and bindings are all the same thing. But on different ends of the spectrum. Just like a handgun and a rifle are on either side of the spectrum. Is it possible to hit a target accurately at long distances with a handgun? Sure. In fact many may enjoy the "feel" of a handgun over a rifle. But does a rifle do the job better? Absolutely. It is just simple plysics. Now in the case of soft boots carving, you have to consider that soft boots are SOFT and that soft boot bindings are designed for freestyle or freeride with angles of about 35 degs or less. Hard boots on the other hand have an entirely different interface system and use a hard boot that gives much better support, response, and powertransfer to the board or edge. Also these setups are optimal for running higher angles than say 35 degs. Through personal experience and I am sure through the experience of many long long time carvers on here and on the WC for instance higher angles tend to work better for carving. Low angles and soft boots work very well for general freestyle. Of course you can attempt to use one type of equipment for what it is not designed for, but there will be limitations. I really don't care that someone can drag a hip, butt cheek, or knee in softies. They may even be skilled enough to do it on hardpack. But there is no question that soft boots do not carve as well as hardboots. It is just simple physics. Then we get the arguement: "Look at skiers, look at their hardboots and the rails and freestyle." The simple answer here is that they are SKIERS. Lots of similarties and lots of differences. The simple fact that our feet are locked onto one piece of wood compared to having both our feet indepent changes the mechanics of things quite a bit. As boarders we needs different flex patterns in our boards, boots, and bindings. Our technique must be different. With freestyler's finding optimum performance at flat angles and riding parallel with the board this creates very unique issues and needs. Now lets look at skier's. One thing similar about skiers and most high angled riding snowboarders is the simple need for lateral boot and binding support (which hard boots provide very well.) The freestyler's ride at the same angles as the racers and still need lateral support. Although (please correct me if I am wrong) freestyle skiers have boots designed speciallly for new school freestyle that are softer, as I recall, with unique flex patterns. Wasn't there also a shift from soft leather ski boots back in the early1900's to hardboots once the technology became available? Hey, you could probably mount a snowboard soft boot binding to a pair of skis. But we all see the problem instantly:lack of support. So we could modify it and move more hard plastic around the sides of the binding to give more lateral support, and maybe more in the front for more support there. Pretty soon you have a soft boot encased inside a hard plastic shell...wait a minute! That sounds like a hard boot. The simple point here is to use the right tool for the job. Granted, everything is not known about snowboardind and skiing, there has been tons of experience accumulated into finding the perfect carve or jib or jump. It is true a lot of movements are out of media hype and keeping up with the Jones', but patterns tend to emerge for a reason. I just want to end this with the other simple truth about snowboarding (as well as anything else in life), we do it because it is fun or exhilerating or challenging or spiritual. So with that being said, who gives a sh@t...just ride!

Can you carve on soft boots well? Yes. Can you jump or even slide rails on hardboots? Yes. Can soft boots carve just as good as hard boots? Well maybe. It would have to be completely circumstantial in my opinion. But, all things being equal of course, the obvious answer is no. Same goes with jumping and rails on hardboots. And lets not forget that we are snowboarding...not skiing. But I will agree that it is very possible to carve well well a softy setup. Even at relatively flat angles ( 24 and 9 ) I can get that low on toesides quite easily. With my new Donek 169 I can get my arse to touch the snow on heelside before booting out if the conditions are good. I love carving on my softy setup, but regardless of that and what is possible on a softy setup hardboots will outperform softies anyday. But if it is fun and you really enjoy it go for it. Nothing pisses off hardbooters more than a guy on softies outcarving them. And I would agree that soft boots give more versatility on the whole mountain than your average hardboot. Oh yeah that Donek 169 has a 10.26 sidecut radius. It turns like a GS board and has unbelievable speed stability. That board was a hair humbling at first with soft boots controlling it, but after a day or two I love it...finally heelside turns that are really smooth at low angles!!! And talk about challenging...CARVING tight short radius turns on that board was very difficult. I really have to use the torsional flex to get the board to turn tight or use a cross-under push and pull technique to get it to carve tight.

I currently run CATEKS and really like them. I love the adjustability most of all. However I do realize that they do not offer much in the shock absorbsion area. I know that TD's have better shock absorbing properties. I would however like some feedback as to what is working well on the race course these days. CATEK's work great when the snow is good, but they get a little brutal when the snow gets icy and cut up with ruts and bumps. I also have heard that many of the racers have veered away from CATEK's for that particular reason. I surely don't want a sloppy binding, and I love precision carves. This is usually my strategy when running a race course rather than skidding. We all know a carved turn is more efficient and all that but sometimes a skidded turn will get you the finish line quicker. How about TD's any of you guys race these bindings on a regular basis. Any pros that run them that are doing successfully in the WC? Other recommendations welcome? Thank you.

Sigh! I find this not much different than the discrimination of those four ski resorts. I heard a rumor that the orginal owner of Taos made some legal clause about never allowing snowboarding..ever... before he died. And that the kids are trying to let it but legally can't. I don't know much about legalities and it is probably just an empty rumor, but if it is true I am lmao. I hope they all go bankrupt.

Thanks for the comps on the board, I was very happy to see the Ruby Metallic topsheet. And amen on the personalization. Plus I want to do some boarder crosses on it so I want it fast! I used to ride 90 deg edges but I am not sure if that is the wisest setup for me. A little base bevel for comfort and a couple on the side for the hard pack.

Thank you for the info. I am very interested and may just make a trip over to get it done. I was very dissappointed that Spokane lacks good snowboard machines and techs. I just picked it up at the Post office today and that board is downright gorgeous. I am sure you have seen many Donek's but here is a pic. Sorry couldn't get a good picture of how the Ruby Red metallic gleams in the sun.

I am looking for a shop that has a high quality machine like a Wintersteiger and someone who knows how to use it very well. I have a new Donek Wide 169 and I want some good pattern and edge on it. Thanks.

I agree with Bordy completely and have even come to the same conclusion on the specific angle of 30 deg's generally being the performance limit. This is not to say that you can't ride like this (because I've have seen people tear it up with super high angles and softies.) But you have to realize that if you want to go beyond that limit you are fully aware of the disadvantages. Perhaps some may just enjoy the challenge of a handicap. I started out soft booting and hitting kickers with all my friends 12 years ago. I tried hard booting about six years ago, and spent time equally in both (I think I am going to focus more energy on the hard booting now.) So I have tried every angle from dual 75 deg.'s on my too narrow 197 burner to duck foot. However I tried Terje's orginal angles of 24 and 9 degs to be a good blend of carving, freeriding, rails, and pure freestyle. It never held me back doing huge backside 180's in the park or rodeos. I could carve it pretty well switch, and it carved well regular. Those stance angles seemed to be very all-mountain friendly. 30 and 15 I have played with a few times and found that it was even much stronger for all around carving but came a bit more awkward for park and such. One day at Squaw valley I was bored and decided to see at what point I was able to carve a clean heelside hip on the ground turn. Obviously you can touch your rear to the ground at any angle and I can do it at 24 and 9 if the overhang and snow is right, but I found around 38 degs on both feet to really be that point where heelsides showed dramatic improvement. But then again it felt awkward as hell and my boots were just plain sloppy. Another area to experiment in is the difference in angles between the front and back foot. I think Terje was the one who supposedly told a coach of mine that 15 deg's foot separation seemed very effective for the best hip movement and freedom. Which of course is mandatory in freestyle but may not be necessary if you just want to carve. So you must find that balance of hip freedom and edge pressure and overhang. I would also like to add that the new CATEK freeride bindings opened up some new options as far as canting and lift on a soft boot setup. Although the straps leave a little to be desired the binding idea I think is great for us hard booters that also ride soft boots.

Well to make a long story short...Donek of course. I will not down F2 though. A long time carver and racer told me that F2 production boards are the best (as well as Nidecker.) And that F2 production boards are about as close as you will come to having a board tailored to your needs like Donek (He had a Coiler though which he raved about.) I have an F2 Speeder RS 177 and it has a few hard seasons on it, but beside little surface scratches that board is still ripping like new. It still hold a massive amount of camber which is much more than I can say for some board manufacturer's (my last years noodled out K2 Nemesis that now sports reverse camber.) F2 is now my favorite mass-production company, although they are pricey. But there is no doubt in my mind that Donek makes some of the (if not the) best boards in the world. I realize that is a bold statement, but I was impressed 10 times over when I saw how beautiful my board looked when it came out the package. Sleek and clean, that thing looked like a tool that was meant for serious carving and racing business. Although some may think the Donek graphics leave a little something to be desired , I love the simple clean serious look of their boards over any mass production company board which has $300 graphics. Let's face it, the expensive overly complex graphics may get you ooh's and aw's in the parking lot, (may even help get you laid in the bar)but they don't do a thing on the mountain. But this is where Doneks truly shine. Their carving performance is incredible, and the way it holds edge on the ice is (as stated by many others) impeccable. I think the previous poster should give Donek a second chance and just simply ask for a softer board. I think we all have made the error of choosing a board that is too stiff or too soft...but that doesn't change the quality of the company.

Yeah its me Randy. LOL my gf read this post when I was at work and wondered how the hell you knew me. Yeah I remember you telling me a little about the program. I wil get in touch via email today or tomorrow. Donald Nyberg, saw him on a Board Frenzy race on TV once...I think...how do I get in touch? Thanks DFJ I will check it out right now.

May be moving back to Norhtern Cali. Looking for a club or team that offers great race training facilities. Looking to start seriously competing again. Thanks.

I agree with you Jack on your analysis of the pix. They looked pretty clean to me. Lol, this is why I never put a pic of me on here. I don't want everyone pulling out their micrometers and such and picking my apart! J/K. Anyways yesterday was my third day back on a race/carving board in almost 1.5 seasons (I still don't know what I was thinking in stopping for that long), and I rode at Mission Ridge for the first time ever. Anyways since it has been so long and I have been spending my time on soft boots and low angles I have been spending almost all my time regaining strength, balance, and technique. I noticed I was having similar problems on my heelside when I hit hard snow or was really getting low or hauling. I did all the hand gestures, elbow lift, angluation and the works. My problem was simply (even though I though I was looking good) was that my body weight was not over the board. Finally I was getting the body weight dialed in again and my toesides were just as I remembered(if not better.) On my heelsides I was feeling as If I couldn't just drive in my boots right with my knees. So on the heelside turn I rotated my body into the turn slighty to counter that nasty butt hang and it hooked up like a champ. I realized my butt was (sigh) not where it was supposed to be. Which actually brings me to a question for Jack or some of the others. As far as I remember rotating into the turn (especially excessive amounts) is not good right? However I find it necessary to rotate into my heelside turn slighty to counter my hip and butt from dangling out of its ideal position. Maybe it is just that I am not used to keeping it where it should be. Oh well, just happy I am carving again (and my body is aching!)

Don't heelsides get stronger at higher edge angles? At low edge angles my toeside is stronger of course. But I feel more equalized at higher edge angles with hardboots.

Thanks for the input. Yeah I hear what you are saying dragonfly. I agree with you completely. PSR I am glad to hear it was not only me that saw the manual as somewhat vague and even contradicting. I agree it is just a beginner guide, but I was somewhat dissappointed in the carving section.

I have been into carving for about 5 years now and have been through my USSA Level 1 Racing Clinic. This is my first year instructing true beginners, so we are doing our AASI certs. I think the program is wonderful and the AASI manual is so far the best General book to snowboarding I have seen. However my own experience and research (especially some of the info right here on Bomber) seems to have its differences. I do understand that the AASI book is a general snowboarding guideline and Bomber focuses on hardboot high angled carving, but the same techniques can and should be used on soft boots and low angles as well. My question is that AASI lists two tpes of carving:1. Basic Carving and 2. Dynamic Carving. Their Basic carving seems to be a very basic Cross-Over technique and Dynamic Carving seems to be very similar to the cross-under techique. It seems like they over look any benefits of a GS style turn in everyday riding and consider Cross-Under as the "Real " way to carve. Has any else noticed? Please leave your thoughts because this is bothering me.

I hate ignorant soft booters who think freestyle is the only way and refer to me as a skier or monoskier...even though I haven't skied a day in my life and don't really care too. I also hate arrogant hardbooters that hate softbooters because there are a lot of ignorant loud mouth youngsters who ride them. See it works both ways and I love flipping, going huge and jibbing. I also love carving more than anything. I will not stop either for anyone.

Please send me more specs such as sidecut radius and maybe a photo. What type of snow was it designed for also (ice, hard pack, wet, slush) Thank you brodster_57@hotmail.com

Yes, Please send me the specs and the photos as well. Thanks. brodster_57@hotmail.com

Yeah your right. I was just there the other day. So obvious, maybe I could have done my homework better. Seriously. Thanks

Hey didn't I sell you that Donek? How's it working out? My Last name is Mahoney,

I purchased the Af700 a 2 years ago. Loved the boots. A bit soft, but they perform well. I see that they make a race kit for them finally. Any advice or comments on them? I also see they don't make stiffer heel and toe pieces like before. Are the older series compatible with the new ones? Thanks much in advance.

Thank you very much for the numbers. Probably sounds like another tedious newbie question but I am just clearing up the old numbers that seem to be a bit fuzzy now. Thanks again for those of you who cared enough to respond.