ur13
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Posts posted by ur13
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Central Park (actually that will start tonight).
I officially ended my snowboarding season last weekend and have shifted gears to bikes finally (actually 1 month late this year).
The slalom skateboard will see action in May or June (actually I'll just call it a 32" longboard since I no longer race)
Hopefully the indoor ski area opens in NJ this summer and I can rail some turns there.
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And this thread is why I stopped riding bails a long time ago.
I love intec heels (and no I've never had a failure or icing issues in 8 years riding them. I also like the stiffer connection o the board.)
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The softest Pilot is the 147cm. It's spec is very close to the 96 Alp. You think someone at Donek actually "know" if the Pilot is softer than the Alp?
96 Alp Donek Pilot
Length 150cm 147cm
Eff Edge 129cm 130cm
SCR 8.46m 8.0m
Waist 19.5cm 19.5cm
I'm sure a talk with Sean would be very enlightening. Give it a try.
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Quote from Prior was over $1000 for a custom board. Everyone here are buying/selling used $250 decent carve boards. Why nothing for someone 90-lb????
Alpine snowboarding is a fringe discipline of snowboarding. Unlike mainstream snowboarding, which only in the past 5 years has had real gender specific/lightweight gear, there has been little demand for such specific gear. Most alpine riders are average to above average sized athletic men. There aren't a ton of women and kids out there riding this stuff. Most that do seem to race, which means they are buying very specific boards in the first place.
Donek has stepped up to the plate and addressed this issue and does offer the Pilot made for lightweight riders, which might be what you want.
http://www.donek.com/01_products/pilot.htm
I'd seriously consider that option over any 10-15 year old Burton. I'd also call Sean at Donek and talk to him about your specific needs and what is right for you. One of the many advantages of buying from smaller/custom manufacturers is having open communication with the person making your board. Try that with Burton.
A full custom board will cost more ($1000'ish seems about right) but you'll get a better product that will last longer and you'll enjoy more in the long run.
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I own OS1's so I can't be sure.
If it's a 4mm hex, it should be M6 thread (same as the disc-board screws.)
[edit]
I think there may be an issue to be resolved by jeff, flatheads are very powerful in simple countersunk holes, but lack contact area when used in a 'countersunk' groove.
You end up with only 2 lines of contact between the screw head and groove. This is one of the rare times I've seen this done.
I'd suggest changing the design from using flatheads to using button head cap screws.
M6 was what I was thinking.
You raise a good point about the contact points. However with the wide enough washers (say .5" to .25" stacked) you'd have enough contact to work. The power plate is not a sideloaded weight bearing part. Therefore the stepdown washer technique should be just fine.
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I'd check as to where the power plate is 'rubbing' on the disc.
Run a marker under the power plate (both in the center and in the center).
Tighten the flatheads and rotate the power plate.
I guess the only area where the marker should have rubbed off is in the center, if the outer pads are rubbing, you may have a problem.
When setting the OS2 up:
-Clean with non oily/waxy product the disc and below the power plate.
-Torque down the flat head screws with a wrench with proper 4mm hex tip bit, probably good to apply dry thread lube (apply only on screw).
An option to increase the screw force on the power plate is to replace the flatheads with a wide washer and socket head cap screw (if it fits) or a button head cap screw, make sure to measure the proper length so as to have enough engagement without bottoming out on the board.
Wondering what's my profession? ;)
The washer is a good idea. What is the threading of those little screws for the powerplate? Do you know off hand?
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The serial number on that E Deck seems to indicate it is from 1994. Looking at the pictures it is likely to be quite beaten up.
I just want something soft and narrow to carve on. Would a Donek Pilot 152cm or a Prior 4WD 154cm softer than an Alp 150cm? I know the three boards are different types/shapes but there are nothing else I saw available for small riders. Would they be too long for a 90-lb kid?
Thanks again for everyone's input.
If you want to spend a little money. Either the Donek or Prior can be made to your spec. Call those guys up and talk to them about your needs. They can help get you the right board, with the right flex, for you. Either will be FAR better than the Burton option.
And yes, the 1994 e-decks were spongey noodles, even when new. They were basically soft normal snowboards made in a cruiser alpine shape.
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I'm having the same issue. However once I tighten the kingpin and the 4 set screws it doesn't move. that seem to lock it. But until I do that I can move it with my hand easily on one of my bindings.
Thus far riding them, with the set screws tight, I've not had it move on me.
The 4 screw trick was working for me when I was riding 60/60. Now that I'm in the 70s I'm stuck to 2 screws again...
This is why I like the adjustability of Cateks but the simplicity of Bombers!
Once I get a new stance dialed. if I can replicate it with Bombers, trust me I will. The over complication of Cateks has been why I've never really liked them.
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First I ever saw anything like it was on a Swoard.
BV
Though a Swoard has a whole different purpose, no?
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AM in this context = "All Mountain"
Got it and got it. Now I see the purpose. Makes total sense.
Then yes, I approve. Good idea!
(as if it mattered. Hahahahah)
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The purpose was several things... one a shorter board can handle crowds on cat tracks at slower speed.
But then what do you do when you get up to speed and beyond a normal 161..speed limit.. and go over the handle bars because your tossed into a turn beyond the speed limit.. so make a short board that is very stable at high speeds.. no need to drive the nose or tail... just relax on a 14.7m sidecut..
A longer sidecut feels more sure footed on higher speeds .
Also its metal.. so then you have an ultra short board very smooth and just cruising..
It very deceiving though... you go down steep stuff an you want to turn or you think its going to turn like a short board...then it just wants to go fast.. weird feeling but you get used to how fun it really is..
Fun and Easy became the insperation for the Schtubby.. Took the best of a long board and a short board and put them together and you get the X2..
Hope I explained that right.. there are only 2 original X1's schtubbys and are fun as hell !!
I think Mike T has the bit longer one at 164...
RSS
Thanks Shred. Interesting. I'm not totally sold but I see the logic.
I'd like to demo one though... Maybe I'll cross paths with someone on one next season.
The reality is with these metal boards that a longer board is simply not necessary to handle a longer sidecut like 14m. And the Schtubbies have longer effective edge, like a board 5-7cm longer.One big thing is the reduction of sidecut <i>depth</i>. Shallower sidecut makes a board easier to skid and steer, which makes the board good for AM duty.
Why would you want to skid and steer a alpine board? Especially in the AM when everything (theoretically) is hard and groomed?
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I'd like that Hot Logical, just to "have", you know...
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To help to get this thread back on track..
5) Sounds like you are learning over too far, or reaching for the snow. Focus on staying low and having your hips/butt in the right place and your weight centered over the edge. The more you get a feel for the heel edge the "lower" you'll get. it takes time. Just don't reach for the snow or try to lean down to it. let it come to you.
6) The above advice is the corner stones of carving steeps. Focus on proper form and get a feel for both edges. The better you are at both the easier steeps will be. This will take time though.
There was a very good thread recently about riding icey steeps. Alot of good advice there that will apply to learning fundamentals. Good stuff from Gilmour as well.
EDIT: Here is the thread...http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24489
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Sorry for the threadjack ...
Meh ... I'm not crazy about them either, but not having to drive is nice, and they work out pretty cheap. The weekend trips are not worth it in my eyes, either to Hunter/Windham just on account of the crowds and not worth it to VT on account of having to wake up at 3am. I didn't realize Mountain Creek had night riding. I might have to check that out, though I imagine they're pretty much completely screwed now given the recent warm weather and rain.
Maybe this becomes the NYC alpine thread? or we start one and stop thread jacking (sorry OP).
Oh, ya... consider Mtn. Creek over for the season...
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ACE! is the place for the helpful X4 hardware store!!!
We don't have Ace hardware stores in NYC anymore. Just Home Depot. Sadly they only sell Burtons.
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There are also (quite reasonably priced) bus trips to Hunter/Windham during the week (and the weekends too, though those mountains are WAAAAY too crowded on the weekends for any kind of reasonable carvint experience). On the weekends I find myself taking long-weekend trips up to VT whenever I can. Usually Okemo, Stratton, Mt.Snow Killington or Stowe.
Call me a snob but I'll never be caught dead on one of those bus trips to "Hun-tah". In the mid 90s, when I first moved here, I made the mistake of doing one of those things (run at the time by the Blades on Broadway in NoHo). Never again. I'm far too old to deal with it (hell back then when i was in my early 20s i was far too old to deal with it).
Zip-car (actually hertz Connect for me) is a good thing to use to never have to ride a ski bus.
I'll stick to a car and day trips to VT or the ADKs...
That being said...I do enjoy night riding at Mountain Creek.
:-)
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You'd have to talk to the man about his thinking - all I know is the X2 (which is the basic shape that everyone is currently raving about) is the best all-around carver I've been on. The original Madd is a close second...but you just can't find 'em - but shred & Bruce have designed the X4 which is supposedly a similar feel to the original madd 158
I'd be curious to demo this X4 then.
A original Madd 158 has been my primary ride for 5 years now. I'm looking to replace it next season (well not totally replace but replace for everyday riding).
Right now, the replacement I'm looking at, couldn't be further from the "schtubby" idea... but I'm curious.
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The original concept (from Shred Gruumer) was a short board with a long sidecut. Time was you couldn't get a 15m sidecut on anything shorter than 185...then shred had a beer-induced vision and came up with the revolution that's sweeping the nation.
This I remember from years ago (I've been around here since 1999 or so, though was away for a while and had resign-up my account). I didn't know that was the inspiration though.
But what is the shorter overall board with the uber sidecut doing for you? The shorter board is allowing for more movement and ability to chuck around while the longer sidecut bites and runs long? Sounds as if that helps run through crud (as I've seen many praising these board for just that) Effectively giving a short board that rides much much longer?
That sounds familier... like a Original Madd 158? Just updated for this century?
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I'm also in Manhattan. But if i'm going to be bothered with renting a car I'm going to Stratton or the Adirondacks (gore mostly) or even to Central NY to ride the little ski areas of my youth (Labrador mostly).
That being said I may spend some time at Hunter next season due to my GF and I finding a cabin we love to rent up there (near Woodstock).
I've read that the Xanadu indoor ski at the Meadowlands in NJ area is supposed to open this summer. if so I'll be spending alot of time there. I'll finally have a reason to use my Zip-car.
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So I've been wondering. Given this "schtubby" design is new to me (kinda). Why and what is it trying to accomplish? I've search for this here but can't find a conclusive answer.
They are interesting boards visually...that is for sure.
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It's very interesting to read all these first time experiences. They should be sticked in the forum as they off alot of good points for people starting out to be aware of and/or references on what to focus on and/or read within this site.
I can only imagine what Whiteface was like. That is a hell of a mountain on a good day. I still love it.
Some key things I noticed in your post;
- Yes, a alpine board will seemingly make "bigger" turns. When compared to a normal snowboard, even a short alpine board, has a much larger sidecut (at least 2m+). The stiffer boots and increased binding angles will make it hard for you starting out to bend the board the way you are used to in order moderate the arc of the carve. However, once you figure out the mechanics of turning with your legs, not just ankles, you'll see the benefits. it's one of the biggest things one needs to learn on an alpine board.
- "Folding the nose" is a common thing in bumps on a rather soft board like the Burton you are riding. It's a symptom of you moving your weight too far forward to initiate a turn, which is common when starting out, especially in bumpy snow. Focus on keeping your weight centered. You might want to revisit some of the tech articles here about stance setup and heel/toe-lift & canting.
- Generating speed (i.e. pumping the board) is a rather advance technique but I read many first timers mentioning it. Accelerating out of turns could be one of two things. It might feel like you are (when you aren't really) due to cleanly carving a turn (where you aren't scrubbing speed). That one is most common in my experience. The other thing it could be, which in your case is more likely since you already mentioned you were folding the nose, is that you are exaggerating your weight shift through the turn and ending up with too much of your weight on the tail of the board (and/or over compensating to not go over the nose). That will feel like your are "popping" out of the turn and generating speed, and you might be actually (the soft snow will aid this). Shifting your weight during the turn and forcing the nose in and loading the tail out are skills you will learn but at first they seem scary. Again you might want to revisit some of the tech articles here heel/toe-lift & canting in order to help keep your body centered in your stance. Also check the article about the "mechanics of a carved turn" to read up on what is actually happening when you carve an alpine snowboard.
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one thing that I did notice a few times that I'm curious about.
When I'm going quite fast and try to do just carve on the edge....not getting low at all. It seemed like many times I would lose my balance and almost fall to my side....my body angle would get a lot lower and my board would suddenly just lock in a turn.
I couldn't duplicate it on my own, it happened on accident a few times. Scared the crap out of me as I was usually going pretty fast when it happened.
Is this flexing the board?
It's been mentioned multiple times here... but that is a perfect demonstration of your board being too long (actually the sidecut being too big). What you described is a case of not having enough momentum to keep the board on edge and let it make it's arc (to the radius of the sidecut). By getting lower (I'll assume you mean almost falling over and thus bending at the hips) you load the edge and/or pressure the nose which forces the board into the arc. You'll see many intermediate alpine riders doing that even to get the board to turn because it's an easy way to initiate a turn (and comes from riding a normal snowboard often).
A shorter board with a sidecut around 8-10m (closer to a normal snowboard) will help you learn how to get the board to engage in an arc much better without having to "fall over" to do it (not a slam on you, it's just the best way to describe the technique I've seen beginners do to get long boards to turn).
The only way to fix it with the board you have is to pick up your speed but given the other things you've mentioned in this thread I wouldn't recommend you doing that for your own safety and/or everyone else around you.
Learning how to skid turn that big board will be something you can do now but could also aid in developing bad habits and hurting your knees (something it seems you already have). I wouldn't spend much time on that.
I'd check ebay or the buy-sell-trade listing here for a Burton Ultra Prime or Alp in the low 160cms (The Burton Ultra Prime 162 is what I have in mind, the one from 1999 with cap construction). That will be soft enough for you to move around, the sidecut is more reasonable compare to it's stiffness and you'll even be able to skid the thing enjoyably.
Big boards with big sidecuts are best left to advanced riders.
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When I was little and first getting into board sports I just figured that if you were left handed you were goofy and right handed you were regular. But then I met other riders.
I am right handed. I ride regular. I do everything right handed. However there are two oddities. When I talk on the phone I use my left hand/ear. That classic exercise to figure out if you are goofy or regular...of sliding on ice....I do that goofy (right foot forward).
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tenorman - You know, it's interesting you noticed all of that. One of the reasons I decided to stay on the Olympic chair was to work on board setup and "pumping" it through turns. By the time you guys found me I had 3 solid hours on my legs of laps. I got a new stance dialed by about 11am, one that allowed me to drive my rear knee (like a slalom skateboard). After that I simply worked on turn shape (driving the nose in and "snapping" the tail on exit). It wasn't as comfortable as I wanted it to be, due to the new stance, but it was working. Regardless it really works the legs and whipes you out.
I've never been one to "let to board run", which is why I never liked long board with big sidecuts (a 170 is still HUGE to me). Not to mention, most of the terrain I ride in the east is narrow and icey, where you don't want a board dictating where you go.
I know people poo-poo plats (greens/blues) but somedays they can be more fun than anything. Maybe not on a 178... but one of the advantages of riding a 158 is it can make anything interesting. Depending on how hard you go at it.
I'm actually going up to the tiny (700ft vt) ski area I grew up riding this coming weekend to work on more things, getting 2 more days on snow this season. I'm dropping my Cateks on the Madd to play with heel/toe lift and outward canting (sometimes the total adjustability of cateks is good) to get myself more comfortable on the board so I can make the pump more effective.
Again, I wish we could have rode more...but I'll be back. If any of you gys ever come east....let me know...
Oh, I'm going to skateboard more this summer. Riding alpine got the pumping/turning bug back into me. I don't think I'll be racing slalom again (I do still have all my race boards) but pumping a flexy cambered board around the Manhattan will happen!
TD1/stepins for sale
in For Sale
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Item has been sold. Sorry...