bootfitting questions

[snow|3oarder]

So it looks like the bony part of my ankle is bigger than usual, so I think I am going to have to have my boots fitted to reduce pressure on that part of the ankle. I called up the local bootfitter and they said that they charge 50 bucks an hr and do custom footbeds (no custom liners) or shape the boot or the stock liner. So...would shaping the boot solve my problem? is 50 dollars/hr reasonable? should i just get custom moldable liners or are footbed enough (i dont think footbeds are probably even necessary)? anyone have this done before for a tight fitting ankle?

BTW, I have head stratos pros. Which moldable liners, if any, would fit?

[Guest jschal01]

Footbeds are a separate but related issue. It could be possible that you're rolling your ankle inside the boot, therefore causing the extra pressure, in which case a footbed could help, but that is likely not it.

The key is finding bootfitters you trust -- it's sort of like getting referrals before an operation for doctors. Once done, just trust their work and give feedback. If it is an ankle size issue a custom liner wouldn't necessarily solve it, a punch or grind could be the ticket.

[Guest tdinardo]

So it looks like the bony part of my ankle is bigger than usual, so I think I am going to have to have my boots fitted to reduce pressure on that part of the ankle. I called up the local bootfitter and they said that they charge 50 bucks an hr and do custom footbeds (no custom liners) or shape the boot or the stock liner. So...would shaping the boot solve my problem? is 50 dollars/hr reasonable? should i just get custom moldable liners or are footbed enough (i dont think footbeds are probably even necessary)? anyone have this done before for a tight fitting ankle?

BTW, I have head stratos pros. Which moldable liners, if any, would fit?

$50 per hour is reasonable. I'm paying $65 in my area for my bootfitters time. Kind of depends on whether the guy is any good.

I ride Stratos Pros and had to have a bit of grind work and heal lifts inserted to address my issues (I already had a good set of footbeds). The Stratos Pro has moldable liners, so you shouldn't need to replace those unless they were used and completely packed out.

$0.02

Tom.

[Sinecure]

I have those boots also. You can heat mold the liners, but it will have minimal effect on the angle pocket area. You can have the shells punched out there. The Head boots have great shells that will hold up well to doing some customization to the shell (unlike some other snowboard boots that aren't made as well as the typical ski boot).

Do you have custom insoles now? If not, I'd recommend going to Surefoot. There's one in NYC at 69th & 3rd. They'll make you a custom footbed for just under $200, but once you pay that, they'll do any work necessary to fit your boots. Plus you can go to the one at Kilington if you are up in VT and still need some tweaking. They make great footbeds and in my experience do really quality boot work. Plan on spending 2 full hours there to have all the work done.

If you really want fully custom liners, you could go with Conform'able foam injected liners (Surefoot sells them). They are expensive though - about the same amount you paid for your boots. They will also stiffen up your boots a fair amount and be a bit uncomfortable the first day or two that you wear them (after which they'll be awesome). Thermoflex liners are a cheaper alternative, but IMO won't be much of an improvement over your Head liners (there's just not enough spare room around the ankle if you really do have freaky wide ankle bones.

[Pat Donnelly]

http://alpinecarving.com/bootfitting.html#fitting

[D-Sub]

just wondering how a footbed will cure problems caused by fat ankles.

:)

[Guest jschal01]

Without looking at the ankles, it's impossible to tell whether they are in fact bony, fat all over (no offense to the o.p.) or receiving pressure from the shell for another reason. One type of "another reason:" If they're rolling into the boot and then getting pressure, a footbed could be one way of addressing this in whole or in part (thorugh stabilizing the heel and arch).

If you fit the shell right in the first instance, the custom footbed thing isn't necessary for a lot of people though. They get sold heavily -- Surefoot basically bases their franchise on them -- but Superfeet, or simply going without any footbed, can work for a lot of people too.

[snow|3oarder]

just wondering how a footbed will cure problems caused by fat ankles.

:)

hey hey hey...easy with the fat ankles. Technically, i have a protruding medial malleolus according to my doctor(s). Ive had a weird ankle injury for the past month and a half that has limited me to soft boots. I feel pain when i put strong pressure on the bony part of the inside of my left ankle (medial malleolus). I suspect that if I refit my hardboots, I can get on my alpine board again. Rolling my ankle (slight pronation) combined with the big ankle bone probably cause the irritation i feel.

Thanks for all the comments btw, this is very helpful!!!

[D-Sub]

lol sorry...meant fat in a general sense :lol:

medial maleolus...

yeah..you know...seems like moldable liners combined with shell fitting

jshal...thanks for the clarification. I think Im lucky enough to have normal feet and stance...bootfitter at bachelor told me I didnt even really need footbeds or that generic ones would work fine.

[Kent]

There is lots of misguiding information above.....

If you are having an ankle pocket related issues, it MUST be 1st addressed with a custom insole. If the shop or someone tells you otherwise, run for the hills.

It's like building a house from the 2nd floor.....doesn't quite work so hot. You'll need a strong foundation before moving up.

K

[D-Sub]

somehow kent always pops up when theres a chance to say "get a footbed" ;)

but I still dont get it...how does a footbed fix your ankle? like jschal said? in essence keeping things stable?

[Guest jschal01]

There is lots of misguiding information above.....

If you are having an ankle pocket related issues, it MUST be 1st addressed with a custom insole. If the shop or someone tells you otherwise, run for the hills.

It's like building a house from the 2nd floor.....doesn't quite work so hot. You'll need a strong foundation before moving up.

K

Must is a very, very strong word when it comes to internet bootfitting. COULD is easy to sign onto.

If someone trys to assert that expensive custom insoles are a MUST for good bootfitting, they may not realize that among other things a lot of racers (Bode Miller for one) choose to use no footbed. For some people they can be a godsend though.

That's why going to the bootfitter, and trusting their judgment, is key.

[Kent]

(Bode Miller for one) choose to use no footbed. QUOTE]

Well, if you heard that on the news or read in a magazine, perhaps they forgot to explain Bode's shell is smaller than his foot. There are several handcrafted boots (i.e. custom race boots) which will post the bottom of the foot before the creation of the shell. In essence, that IS a custom footed.....

Believe me, they can scope to the micron what Bode's in-boot alignment is.

So, for the sake of arguement, we define custom insoles as an aftermarket product placed inside the boot to replace the stock insole. Yep, Bode's doesn't use one. But, if we define a custom insole as a specifically engineered product to provide alignment of the foot, he has one....

[Kent]

somehow kent always pops up when theres a chance to say "get a footbed" ;)

but I still dont get it...how does a footbed fix your ankle? like jschal said? in essence keeping things stable?

Like the walls of your house will shift if you didn't lay the foundation correctly.

Or, if by chance your ankles are mutant....the custom insole allows for alignment options that can't be done without one.

Either way, the custom insole is the de facto standard on which to develop a foot/leg solution.

Just for the sake of terms...a "custom" insole isn't something you toss into the oven and mold yourself. "Custom" infers a professional that is trained in the art of alignment will do his homework to cure your problems.

Just like anything else.....some folks are anal and go the extra mile, some don't.

Heck, some folks hammer in the cups of the Chris King headset, some would rather use a cone alignment tool. Luckily, Chris King's headset kick ass and can be used outside the tolerance.....most other can't. :D

[Guest jschal01]

Kent,

They're not handcrafted, it's called a plug boot. They are extensively altered, but you can get one too if you want and will work with a bootfitter for the fit. If we define an insole "as a specifically engineered product to provide alignment of the foot" any well-fit plastic shell (all the way down to PMBs) could fit this definition. In fact my old Rollerblade Macroblades fit this definition. In that case all one is really doing is saying, "go to a bootfitter and make certain you get the right shell and get it altered to the point that it fits."

A true custom insole is a different thing, a roughly $200 aftermarket product that some people need and some people don't.

As for Bode's shell being smaller than his foot...you mean he wears his foot on the outside of shell? I know he's a rebel and all, but that's really pretty freaky. Think we all might have heard if that was the case.

One of the main reasons some racers don't like footbeds, or use flexible as opposed to posted footbeds? Because they want to be able to roll their ankle and foot somewhat, they don't want a "foundation" that takes away their natural foot and ankle movement. Good advice for any rider actually.

[Kent]

Kent,

They're not handcrafted, it's called a plug boot.

I highly doubt Bode is riding a plug boot. Source please......

Kent,

provide alignment of the foot" any well-fit plastic shell (all the way down to PMBs) could fit this definition. In fact my old Rollerblade Macroblades fit this definition.

Luckily, I worked with the R&D folks at Rollerblade. They were specifically made for an inner boot and aftermarket insole, preferably the Petersen BioSkate.

Kent,

A true custom insole is a different thing, a roughly $200 aftermarket product that some people need and some people don't.

Any person of an ability would, by definition, make gains with an insoles. Some people though would notice it, some wouldn't.....

As for Bode's shell being smaller than his foot...you mean he wears his foot on the outside of shell?

QUOTE]

Yep, pretty much. His foot compresses inside the boot.

One of the main reasons some racers don't like footbeds, or use flexible as opposed to posted footbeds? Because they want to be able to roll their ankle and foot somewhat, they don't want a "foundation" that takes away their natural foot and ankle movement. Good advice for any rider actually.

Certainly not any ELITE racer. There's no such thing as "rolling your ankle". This is a common term tossed around by AASI instructors which means nothing. Ankles don't roll. Otherwise they would add lateral flex to a ski boot. An elite level racer wants to know EXACTLY when they have a flat ski and EXACTLY when they are on edge. An elite ski boot only needs fore-aft movement......

Kent,

They're not handcrafted, it's called a plug boot. They are extensively altered, but you can get one too if you want and will work with a bootfitter for the fit. If we define an insole "as a specifically engineered product to provide alignment of the foot" any well-fit plastic shell (all the way down to PMBs) could fit this definition. In fact my old Rollerblade Macroblades fit this definition. In that case all one is really doing is saying, "go to a bootfitter and make certain you get the right shell and get it altered to the point that it fits."

A true custom insole is a different thing, a roughly $200 aftermarket product that some people need and some people don't.

As for Bode's shell being smaller than his foot...you mean he wears his foot on the outside of shell? I know he's a rebel and all, but that's really pretty freaky. Think we all might have heard if that was the case.

One of the main reasons some racers don't like footbeds, or use flexible as opposed to posted footbeds? Because they want to be able to roll their ankle and foot somewhat, they don't want a "foundation" that takes away their natural foot and ankle movement. Good advice for any rider actually.

[Kent]

They're not handcrafted, it's called a plug boot.

I highly doubt Bode is riding a plug boot. Source please......

provide alignment of the foot" any well-fit plastic shell (all the way down to PMBs) could fit this definition. In fact my old Rollerblade Macroblades fit this definition.

Luckily, I worked with the R&D folks at Rollerblade. They were specifically made for an inner boot and aftermarket insole, preferably the Petersen BioSkate.

A true custom insole is a different thing, a roughly $200 aftermarket product that some people need and some people don't.

Any person of an ability would, by definition, make gains with an insoles. Some people though would notice it, some wouldn't.....

As for Bode's shell being smaller than his foot...you mean he wears his foot on the outside of shell?

QUOTE]

Yep, pretty much. His foot compresses inside the boot.

One of the main reasons some racers don't like footbeds, or use flexible as opposed to posted footbeds? Because they want to be able to roll their ankle and foot somewhat, they don't want a "foundation" that takes away their natural foot and ankle movement. Good advice for any rider actually.

Certainly not any ELITE racer. There's no such thing as "rolling your ankle". This is a common term tossed around by AASI instructors which means nothing. Ankles don't roll. Otherwise they would add lateral flex to a ski boot. An elite level racer wants to know EXACTLY when they have a flat ski and EXACTLY when they are on edge. An elite ski boot only needs fore-aft movement......

[snow|3oarder]

So I went to the "bootfitter" today, and he suggested trying aftermarket insoles and if necessary punching out the boots alittle. So I tried the insoles, and they helped significantly. They solved the problem about 50-60%...so I decided to get the boots punched out in the ankle too. The whole deal only cost me $65. I'll give it a try next weekend and see how it goes. If its still uncomfy,then i'll probably go in for a more extensive overhaul. For all those non-believers...the aftermarket insoles make quite a big difference.

[D-Sub]

Kent's gonna crap his pants about the aftermarket insoles thing ;)

Kent, Im just ribbing you...it just cracks me up how you pop up whenever footbeds are mentioned (compared to me...I just pop up whenever)

maybe some day I will convince myself that an additional $200 is necessary.

[snow|3oarder]

I figured i would try the $35 dollar ones before and if i go all the way and get the $200 dollar ones.

[D-Sub]

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

I'm cringing thinking whats comin!

;)

[Guest jschal01]

Great to hear it worked out well for you! My point re: the Superfeet or similar off-the-shelfs, as opposed to customs, is that if it works at $35, it works. SOunds like your in great hands with the bootfitter you went to. :)

[Pat Donnelly]

Google "pronation" for a reference.

Factoid from AASI's magazine the pro rider "about 15% of people have normal feet that, esentially, rest in a perfectly neutral position. Some 60 to 70% have feet that pronate to varying degrees and approximately 15% have feet that supinate, again, to varying degrees."

IMO - comfort is key.

BTW - I have customs in both my Raichle's and ski boots and off the shelf Superfeets in my other "daily" footwear.

[Guest jschal01]

Not really into tit-for-tat footnoted back and forth, and definitely put off by doouble posts and bold type, but in the spirit of the injunction to google for reference, and having a snow-slowed start to work, I googled Schlopy and Harb, as Harb has been very public about this association, and came up with this http://forums.epicski.com/printthread.php?t=26631 discussion of Harb's getting benefits from using a flexible footbed to get foot and ankle articulation. Scroll down to the middle of the thread for the Harb discussion. The technical term, btw, is a compliant footbed, there are some rigid footbeds that try to also be "compliant" in a sense by having a rounded boottom that rolls with you to get the same effect.

In any normal meaning of the word, I'd say Schlopy is an elite skier. Aside from a useful caution against unequivocal statements, the main relevance to snowboarding though is that even in hardboots using your feet and ankles is a good thing. (In some ways skiers actually use them more, but that's a different discussion.) Listening to AASI is also a good thing for a lot of people, I have no association with them beyond having taken lessons but haven't heard them throw too many "wors that mean nothing" around.

As for footbeds themselves, it is amusing that saying "it depends" for whether someone needs a custom, or even a footbed, can be so highly emotive an issue. In the interest of disclosure, I personally have custom insoles and superfeet in different pairs of snowboarding boots. I prefer to run barefoot or with some of the new "near-barefoot" shoes, so no footbed there. Different strokes for different activities, and different folks.

[Kent]

Great....so now reading posts on the internet and spewing out someone else's information out of context somehow makes a person an expert.

I'd certainly agree with everything in that post, but there is no mention of specifics (i.e posting materials, insoles constructions, etc) and tolerence. It's just a big sales job. Of course the posting material means everything, but it's different for each person. This is what separated CUSTOM insoles from a typical mold-it-yourself insoles.

DSUB - That's fine is someone gets results with a out-of-the-box insole. Just like everything else in life...some people want to dial 100% while others are fine with 25%. For shipping related issues, we'll make sure you're the subject matter expert....