Geezercarver Needs To Switch To Soft Setup

[Guest BRAD PETER]

I tried the donek incline this board can carve and is not expensive check the web site on the links page

[lonerider]

Originally posted by alpinegirl

lonerider. i figure that AASI is happy to take anyone's money. i do have to consider how far i want to go in the organization. at this point in time i would be testing for my level II in hardboots. frankly they like to fail people who haven't played the game right. i have witnessed amazing instructors who were great riders fail exams without explanation, on softies, while others who are not really all that "good" pass. i was fortunate, i had tom vickery so i didn't have to take any heat about my gear. i honestly would like to have him for my next exam. there are still a few higher ups (as in clinicians and examiners) in AASI who respect plates and are able to look beyond the gear.

heck, when i fail it had better be because my best riding isn't good enough. right now my best riding occurs in hardboots, so why would i compromise that just to be riding "the right gear?"

It's not the AASI that's the problem, it's some of the tests in the AASI (and CASI) that have a bias against hardbooters. I agree that if you pass/fail should be on your performance in the test, but unfortunately... it sounds like to me that there is a bit of politics and diplomacy involved... :( :( :(

[eastcoasticerider]

Yeah..the funny thing is i really feel i progressed this season too. i went to longer more surfey feeling boards and started picking up inexpensive longer boards off ebay etc. for me a long board is a 167. I found out that sharpening is the secret..I got a board off chris houghton that had the best edge i have ever ridden on anything and it was a $100. factory prime. S series.It may be fun to sort of strart over with a big wideassed board and relearn everything from the ground up.....i scored some malamute(solomon) boots off mark on the classifieds page so i hope they are as stiff as he says...next I need bindings.I can mull it over all summer unless i see a deal on ebay...

[eastcoasticerider]

:D ;)

[eastcoasticerider]

WHOA....that look slike a fun cranking binding. The higher boot cup look slike just what i want for carving in soft boots. i didnt realize Flow made so many varieties of binding choices.glad i didnt just nail somethiing on ebay....has anyone demoed or bought the PRO-C-XFR....IT LOOK SLIKE IT WAS DESIGNED FOR CARVERS.........:D

[lonerider]

Originally posted by eastcoasticerider

WHOA....that look slike a fun cranking binding. The higher boot cup look slike just what i want for carving in soft boots. i didnt realize Flow made so many varieties of binding choices.glad i didnt just nail somethiing on ebay....has anyone demoed or bought the PRO-C-XFR....IT LOOK SLIKE IT WAS DESIGNED FOR CARVERS.........:D

Copied from Freecarve.com

On 2/3/2005 PSR wrote in from 69.161.xxx.xxx:

Carp, by all means look into the FLOW bindings, but be aware that many boots will not fit well, as the highbacks on FLOWs tend to press in odd places. Bring the boots with you to ensure that it all fits together. This is also somewhat true with larger boots and Cateks, so beware if you're using size 9 and up, as the heel pockets can scrunch some boots. The Cateks are great otherwise, and will help the softboot carving of most any rider.

softies to buy? FLOW/Catek/others?

On 2/3/2005 Carp wrote in from 144.160.xxx.xxx:

I'm looking to buy my wife some new bindings. As much as I'd like to get her into hard boots she really doesn't have an interest and I'm just happy she boards with me. Anyway, she currently has the Burton Step in's only the high back broke and the step-ins seem to not engage as well as they did a few years back. She and I really like the convenience of stepping in and don't want to get her new boots(unless I have to). I've seen quite a few of the FLOWs on the hills and although not technically a step-in look like they'd be real easy to get in and out of and also pretty responsive to maybe progress her into hard boots? I also thought the Catek Freerides looked really responsive being all aluminum, however not close to a step-in. I'm wondering if these will work with her burton boots and/or if there's another binding out there that might work as well or better? If I'm forced to get new boots for her, what's something that would be nice and stiff in a softboot?

On 11/14/2004 PSR wrote in from 24.53.xxx.xxx:

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Softie Carving bindings

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The closest you'll get to 'hardshell' performance would be with the FLOW FL-19, as the toungue kits on FLOWs do a wonderful job of transmitting edging pressure with little effort. Beware of your boot choice, however, as the heel closure can kinda pinch (flatten,actually) the rear of some boots in an uncomfortable manner. I've posted here about a sticky-backed foam 'cure' for that particular woe, but it dosen't work with All Boots. Btw, FLOW does offer different toungues, so you can dial in the 'flex' you want.

Seems like the following models have stiff tongues

Look for [maybe] the FL-19(older type), Pro 11 FR, Pro C FR, Pro C XFR toungue

[mnovak]

eastcoasticerider:

I am a Flow user mostly for their ease of use and own or have used a variety of them. You don't even have to stop when getting off the lift -- you just zip up as you're starting down the run.

There are lots of models to choose from and there are definitely differences between them in terms of fit and function. The lower end models are definitely soft in terms of the base, highback and the bootstrap. IMHO, the Flow Pro C XFR, Pro C FR, and Team are the best for carvers. There is little difference between the Pro C XFR and the FR, just the bootstrap which comes up a bit higher on the XFR and is stiffer at the top, which may or may not be a good thing depending on your boot shape and calf size. Can't comment on the fit of the Malamutes as I use Driver X's with tongue stiffeners, and they fit both Pro C models about the same. The Team is MUCH lighter than the Pro C's because of the Magnesium baseplate, and the bootstrap is stiffer and smaller so it could be an easier fit for certain boots. It is much more money though and performance-wise not terribly noticeable for a carver.

The main caution with all the Flows is fit. Forward lean is adjusted by increasing the tension on the cables which hold up the highback. If you like lots of forward lean and have big calves or boots with thick uppers, you could find yourself in a tight squeeze. If you can, it might be a good idea to try the binding out with the cable adjusted to your forward lean position and then putting in your boot and closing up. It could end up being too tight for your particular boot/lower leg. Some older Flows also had an issue with the size of the cut out and shape of the bottom of the highback. Some were not shaped well for larger boots so that the highback could not be closed without causing the boot heel to be lifted off the baseplate. This should be less of a problem with the newer models.

An alternative might be the new K2 Cinch which is a combination Flow and 2-strap. Never tried it and the highback does not look that great (compared to carbon Flows or Nideckers), but it should eliminate the Flow fit issues.

Have fun shopping!

[lonerider]

... but I wouldn't get them just yet. I've played with them in the store and while the cable (twisted steel) and the locking system itself looks very slick... the straps and highback leave much to be desired... I can twist the highback a little bit just using my hand - didn't leave the greatest impression. I'm sure as they refine the design they will come out with better stuff (just like how the original FLOWs were super floppy as well).

[Miguel]

For what it's worth, this past weekend I bought a soft boot setup from Vinn Q at Out of Bounds at Killington. He directed me to the Salomon bindings and boots. The bindings were the SPX7's and the boots were the F24's....Salomon's top of the line. I chose the F24's over the Malamutes because they are just about as stiff but a much lower profile and overall length. They are actually shorter overall than my hardboots. It's as if you are wearing one full size smaller than you actually are. I specifically asked Vinn about the Flows and he emphatically did not recommend them for a carver. He said they just were not as supportive as they should be. I really liked the F24's. My heel stayed down and there was no play. Of course I couldn't carve like like when riding the hardboots but it was OK. I seemed to have a harder time getting the board on edge during heelside turns. Cranking the high backs all the way forward seemed to help. They were mounted on my Incline. I bought this setup because I want to ride bumps, trees etc. My plan is to buy a shorter, lighter board. I'm still having doubts about buying a soft setup but what the hell...it was a killer end of season deal and Vinn's a hell of a salesman! I'm sure I'll get some enjoyment out of it. And besides...I'll finally look like a snowboarder when walking into the lodge bar!:D

[kinpa]

Hmmmmm..... where to begin on this..... I feel it is close to my situation..... I've been teaching snowboarding for 14 years now at 5 different ski areas (4 of them in Pennsylvania) and I've seen a lot of changes in how instructors are viewed. I got my Level II back in 1995 before AASI even exsisted and at that time all the examiners where in hardboots. If I had to take my level II exam again, I don't think I could pass it. I can't do the freestyle stuff (even in soft boots! I'm just a whimp!!!). Alpinegirl - you mentioned Tom Vickery.... he was one of my examiners and Lowell Hart was another. If I remember correctly, the third examiner was a skiier becuase they didn't have enough snowboard examiners. Anyway, I made the switch several years ago to a soft boot setup ... an F2 Eliminator (before the F2 Speedcross) and Burton step in bindings for ease of getting in and out. I taught in that set up for several years, but I was bummed because I rarely got a chance to get on my alpine board. It was suggested at one point, but never forced, for me to teach in soft boots becuase it was more like what our students had. That was about the same time AASI came into existance and realized that they needed to appeal to the masses in the snowboard world and many of the examiners made the switch to soft boots. This past year I got a new pair of soft boots and they killed my feet! I got back in my hard boots, put plate bindings on my F2 and taught in that for the rest of the season. (my ski school director now is an examiner in Northern Rocky Mountain division and he didn't seem to care that I was teaching in hard boots) I wouldn't teach any lessons with students that want to spin and jump anyway because they wouldn't get a good lesson from me. I'll leave those lessons for the "kids" to teach. But that wouldn't really matter if I was in hard boots or not. It seems to me that most beginners don't really know enough to be concerned that your boots are hard or your angles are a little more forward. (I try to keep my angles lower on my F2 for teaching) And I have Burton Step-In Plate bindings so I can get in and out of them fairly quickly too. I know there are visual learners out there (I am one of them) who would probably get a better mental picture from someone in soft boots, but I don't know if it makes that much of a difference to beginners. At least it didn't seem to matter to the ones I was teaching.

I really don't know what kind of soft boot / binding system to recommend, but I would suggest some kind of boardercross board. As for AASI, my feeling has always been that the examiners want to see versitility. You have to be able to do it all one one board. You can't switch boards if your are riding groomed, moguls, park, etc. And yes, I have seen people who can do it all on an alpine or race board.

Just thought I'd put my two cents in on this issue....

Hey Alpinegirl, where do you teach?