SWriverstone Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 I got into snowboarding last year, and have been going every chance I get so far this season. From the start, I've never been interested in ollies, spins, grabs, half-pipes, etc. My focus has always been on slaloming down the mountain with grace and speed. Needless to say, I felt all alone in this quest---surrounded by stunt-obsessed kids (no offense to them intended---I'm a fit 42 years old!) Then, just a few days ago, I stumbled across the website extremecarving.com. I quickly absorbed everything in that site, and moved onto alpinecarving.com---and soaked up everything there too...finally, I found this site. WOW! I've "seen the light!" I felt like I found my niche! I have a goal---and even have a name for it: CARVING! The same day I discovered carving online, I hit the slopes and started working on my technique---what a difference it made just remaining vertical, keeping my arms close to my sides, leading turns with hip rotation and going for that clean, quiet on-edge turn.! Of course I'm still a total rookie...but I already feel I'm way ahead of the sideslipping, skidding masses at the local resort. :) Alas, I'm in no position to buy carving gear right now...but I plan to work hard on the basic technique for the rest of this season...and before next season, pick up a pair of hard boots, plates, and (possibly) a carving board. I just took another step: I reset my stance angle, rotating both bindings forward enough to avoid boot-out. Haven't tried it yet, but I will tonight or tomorrow! --- I'm also an expert whitewater paddler, and carving fits perfectly into my specialty there: I was a whitewater slalom racer for many years, and paddle a C-1 (not a kayak)...so I know all about being involved in a fringe sport that the masses have never heard of! Can't wait to learn more! Scott in West Virginia, USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamran Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Scott, welcome on board,.....a carving board :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 scott right on, man! what a stoke, huh? listen...dunno what your current equipment is, but if you do decide youd like to get a full hard setup, youll find that the equipment _can_ be had for good prices. you dont need to rush out and buy all new (in fact, Id recommend the opposite) except on bindings cuz youll be hard pressed to find a pair of used TD2s;) anyway...if you have at least a little $$ to spend, you might be surprised what sort of setup you can get for very little spent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Always nice to read posts like these. Be sure to check out our Welcome Center! Good luck! -Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Well, I guess I sort of started from scratch tonight! I closed the angle of both my feet/bindings, going from a traditional freestyle stance (rear foot pointed slightly to the rear) to both feet at around (I think) 60 degrees, parallel, with my boots just inside the board edges. I think I fooled myself into thinking it would be an easy transition---NOT. I felt like a total beginner again. I also discovered that it's tough to practice basic carving turns on a green slope at slow speeds...I felt like my knees were being torqued all night. Still, I was doing linked turns, sort of, by the end of the night! After several runs, though, I had to give in and open my rear foot angle back up a few degrees. I ride goofy...and I actually found doing backside (heelside) turns was easier---I was able to cross through to my downhill side going *from* frontside to backside much more easily than the other way around. (Is this normal?) I think tomorrow night I'll take the plunge and hit a steeper slope just so I'll have more gravity to help with turning. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Check out the articles here on "The Norm" to help get you started carving. Also, we usually just say "toeside" and "heelside", rather than "frontside" and "backside" to eliminate confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Thanks Jack---I'd wondered about the toeside/heelside...frontside/backside...inside/outside differences! I've read "The Norm;" now I need to go back and read it again! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Scott 60* angles with soft boots is probably a bad idea unless you can rotate your highbacks significantly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Thanks for the point D-Sub...60 degrees definitely felt tough, and not nearly as comfortable as the usual 80-90 degree freestyle angle. (I was confused by "rotate your highbacks significantly"...I mean, they rotate with the bindings---is that what you mean?) It seems like if I want to really learn to carve, I should (at least) have both feet pointing forward, right? Or should I just go back to normal freestyle stance and practice "The Norm" from that angle? Thanks, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Dold Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Scott, glad you have seen the light. As far as binding angles, I think you might mean 30 degrees. It's measured relative to the side; straight across the board like a jib kid is 0 degrees. Facing completely forward would be 90. If you're at around 30 degrees from sideways, you're still in the OK range for softboots. Usually you can go up to around 45 degrees before having issues with the cuff flex. Most people have a few degrees spread between feet (front 45, rear 40 for example) so it's no surprise that you needed to back off a little on the rear foot. Try to rotate your highbacks so that they allow pressuring of the edge without the boot cuff sliding off of them (make them as parallel with the edge as possible). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Randy S. Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Originally posted by SWriverstone After several runs, though, I had to give in and open my rear foot angle back up a few degrees. This is pretty common. Most people I know have a 3-6 degree delta between their front and back angles (front foot facing more toward the tip of the board) I ride goofy...and I actually found doing backside (heelside) turns was easier---I was able to cross through to my downhill side going *from* frontside to backside much more easily than the other way around. (Is this normal?) I've been snowboarding for 18 years and riding hard boots almost as long. I still find I'm much more comfortable going from toe edge to heel edge. I only notice this on really steep runs, but its definitely there. When I get on really sketchy runs, I always set myself up so that if I need to bail out, I can bail with a right turn (I'm goofy also). I think tomorrow night I'll take the plunge and hit a steeper slope just so I'll have more gravity to help with turning. As most of the folks I ride with know, I'm a big fan of speed. I find it very difficult to turn on green slopes. You really need some speed to turn properly. Moderate blues are my favorite place to teach people to snowboard, once they get the basics down. I even take my 7 year-old daughter down blues routinely (she rides in her ski boots with angles just shallower than yours). Welcome to the carving world. Given your introduction, I suspect you'll never go back. Unless you want to jib in the park, carving is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Originally posted by SWriverstone (I was confused by "rotate your highbacks significantly"...I mean, they rotate with the bindings---is that what you mean?) what steve dold said. havin the highback as "behind" your calf as possible really helps heel turns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Originally posted by Steve Dold Scott, glad you have seen the light. As far as binding angles, I think you might mean 30 degrees. Okay---finally I'm clear on the "where is 90-degrees?" thing! :) So...I actually had my front foot around...60 degrees! (*Really* pointing forward.) Ditto with my back foot 'til I backed off on it. Sounds like that was overkill. (Hey, I tried!) I'll try going with 45/front, 40/rear for tomorrow night---that ought to feel better than 60/60! Don't know if I can rotate the highbacks...but I'll check into that. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Someone else in West Virginia?? This guy is putting in some serious effort and a Carving Mentor , could certainly be timely. State your mondo point (boot size) lets see if we can't get you on some real alpine gear!! Start with shorter , softer, wider, then move toward longer, stiffer, wider. Just as D-Sub stated. you can have a good starter set pretty cheap. You are in the right place and you certainly have the right attitude and passion. Good on ya. !!! Bryan PS Beware of confusing techniques. Might want to focus on Jack's FAQs for now. Leave the EC for next season :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MozzMann Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Welcome aboard Scott . I'm kinda new here too well sorta and I noted with interest your first post. I too just liked to rip clean and smoothly , nuthin fancy. but have never felt comfortable with binding angles that are considered the Norm for all mountain Freestyle/ride boards. I had originally set my front foor at 30 and 18 on the rear foot. was the most clean and natural feel to me. I got chuckled at untill my local board retailer and friend of Fins told me it was more carve than freeride , well the rest is history and now I use my TD2's on both my Custom 68 and Race 85 , I kinda doubt I'll ever use softies again. Maurie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Scott...welcome to the wonderful world of carving from a fellow boater. We'll even forgive you for being a C-1er...yeh...I'm a kayaker. C1ing is definitely fringe and hardboot carving may even be "fringer"! (if that's not a word...it is now!) You'll fit right in to this crowd for sure....same type of great people...just some different jargon to learn. Get a few miles under your belt and make an effort to attend the developing Expression Session at Okemo, VT. Speaking of sessions...are you an attendee of Cheatfest? For you non whitewater boaters that's an annual boater feel-good event similar to our Expression Sessions, held in May at the Cheat River Canyon in the great state of West Virginia. (boater's version of Mecca) A handshake in thought, Miguel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Great comments from everyone! Umm...my boot size is 11.5 (45 Euro); a 12 would fit too (I'm almost at the ends of my 11.5s.) 6' tall, 220lbs. Thanks for the boater-hello Miguel. Glad you know what a C-1 is! <grin> I've been to Cheat and Gauleyfests, but not recently. As a former whitewater slalom racer, I've been pretty bummed out over the total homogenization of paddling around 5-foot-long "jug boats" that have zero hull speed and are designed only to spin around in holes. (Whitewater slalom boats are 13 feet long, and have sharp edges you use for turning---a totally different style of paddling---much like carving!) In fact, I'm always fascinated at the similarities between sports: when learning to paddle a slalom boat, you've got to be able to use edges to turn by leaning to the *outside* of the turn...which in a kayak is pretty hairy to learn (lots of flips). Much like crossing through to your downhill edge in carving. I'm also a hang glider pilot---this community's a lot like the hang gliding community...very fringe, unique, and everyone is stoked when someone new gets into it! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Scott You're right on about the similarities between whitewater slalom racing and carving...especially the whole body angulation thing. Even though I do paddle a shorter kayak (far from five feet) and began with a 13 footer, I'm a river runner at heart. Nothing is more satisfying then a super smooth and efficient eddy turn/peel out or just busting a really clean move. It's the same feeling I get from carving on the snow, only it's better and more continuous on the snow. I come from a background of surfing and skydiving. When I surfed I always like the soulful rides that only come with a long board. Skydiving...well...thats another story! Suffice to say, all of those sports have one thing in common...fluidity of movement...grace and style. Every turn on the snow is like a bottom turn in the surf. It doesn't get much better than that! Miguel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 scott...one thing...regarding size? dont bother with US sizing. Its MUCH more accurate to get your MONDO size, which is just the length of your foot in CM so...stand on a piece of paper, mark your heel and longest toe, and measure between the marks in centimeters. thats your mondo size. you can probably get into a smaller boot than an "11", especially with moldable liners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Oh! Okay, that's easy enough...so my mondo size is a 28 (29?). (I was wondering why those sizes on Bomber didn't go up to a 45!) Cool. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MozzMann Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Mine is 31 so you can see why it took me ages to find boots :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 28 is no problem. why did you say "29?" though...is it a bit over 28? I measure around 27.5, but wear a 27 boot with moldable liners. go smaller if you can! you can find a pair of usable boots for under $100, no prob, and depending on your weight some VERY affordable bindings in fact...plenty of pair of older TrenchDiggers around for $100 or so..they come up enough. and a board...$100-$150 easy...so...if you want to take that leap you can do so for $350 or possibly even less! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MozzMann Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Scott you managed to scrape a lot of info up in a short period of time , now scrape some pennies together and come to Colorado and the SES we'll get ya "Zoomin the groom. " like a snow magician. And D-Sub is spot on you should be able to find boots that come up form time to time , just make sure the shells are in tact and replace the liner's as nessesary to conform to your feet. Enjoy the world of the carver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Scott. Are you riding every night?? If you continue to put in this much energy into "Carving" . I think we (BOL Community) can step up and help you make this happen sooner, rather than later??? Sort of a "PAY FORWARD" kind of Apprenticeship so to speak. Perhaps we can all live vicariously through your learning phase. I am thinking if you will "Stay on Course" and provide updates of your progression. We as a group could assist you in the hardware department. Do you have a budget to work with? Pay shipping ? Just a thought. Keep up the good work. Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MozzMann Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Well said Bryan . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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