SWOARD - Gen 2, 3 & 4

[CarvingScooby]

I was wondering SWOARD's character differences. How they are compare to each other each generation how it ride, flex/stiffness, dampness, side cut, camber change/style etc. For EC or Extreme Carving (ofcourse :rolleyes:)

Maybe still to early for Gen 4 but if you have experience riding on one of the Gen or both or all three please share.

Thx,

RT

[nils]

Hi

I'll try to make it short!

Gen0: prototypes > 1995-2002 > all handmade by Jacques Rilliet.

Pre-production prototypes at Duret Factory: 2002

Those have transparent topsheets.

Gen1: 2003-2004: Made in France at Duret factory

Included 3D carbon jet cut parts embeded in the core ( ATC matrix). Strong Proto construction ( but no nose and tail protection). Full rubber dampening.

Ride: very precise and sharp ride. Very soft flex feel

Gen2: 2005-2006: Made in Germany at Virus factory

Modification/ simplification of carbon ATC matrix, urethane embeded nose and tail protection.

Less scratchable topsheet ( grainy ICP)

Ride: smoother ride a bit more physical ( stiffer feel).. a bit less sharp precision/torsion control due to simplification of the ATC Matrix.

Gen3: 2007-2010: Made in Switzerland at Nidecker factory

Optimisation of carbon paterns. Rubber tail until 2010 ( now strong aluminium inserts on nose and tail).

Glossy topsheet. Thicker edges ( rental kind) for longer life.Introduction of new Swoard logos and topsheet graphics. Flatter camber.

Ride: added forgiveness and easyness.

Gen4: 2011-2012: Made in Switerland at Nidecker factory

Improved dampening, new topsheet

Ride: haven't got the time to ride mine yet!

Common to all generations: the 4000 electra Ptex base ( the best available since 2003), the pine wood laminated core with ash inserts( very strong and springy while light), the shape and few things that make the ride not so different for people with experience. Basically the latest generations are easier to ride while retaining the sharp precision and safe ride ( no lock in turns...). Some gen1 are still riding and have more than 200 days on them with only cosmetics issues...the only thing that will fail is the edges after too much sharpening ( below 1.1mm thick on each side ( wall/base) I would advise not to purchase a second hand board... Basically the EC is done with ease and safe behaviour, and the board is also versatile ( able to ride in many styles, and even in powder due to the good width).

Hope it helps

Nils

[jacopodotti]

I would advise not to purchase a second hand board...

Hi I've just found one on Ebay, why you suggest not to buy a used one?

[jacopodotti]

Sorry, just another question does the Thicker edges ( rental kind), has any influence on board flex?

[nils]

The trick when buying second hand carving gear is to know if the board was grinded often or not. I almost never grind my base because it eats too much edge each time.. I rather have small scars on the base than loose base thickness or edges thus shortening board life.

The problem is that its difficult to find out on ebay how much edges there is left on both sidewall and base > good think is to ask the seller to take closer picture with a ruler as reference.

Edges come in two thickness when new ( on this side of the ocean). 1.6 and 2.0mm ( i forgot the exact figures). When grinded at the factory to recover from the gluing, it can maybe eat 0.1 - 0.2 mm. that leaves 0.5 to 0.8mm for the boards life ( carvers are often sharpening their boards!)

...I consider russian roulette riding with edges under 1mm ( prone to breakage after small stones encounters..) but some people ride old boards with thin edges for years...this is why edge thickness is the first thing I check on second hand skiis and snowboards.

Nils

PS: thicker edges have no effect on board behaviour or flex ( we are talking about small dimensions here! 0.5 mm !

Off topic:

This is also why its good to follow certain rules when sharpening edges: for example its better to use fine diamond very often than a file randomly ( eats more steel ). In Ski world cup they basically file the edges at the beginning of the season, leaving only room for diamond or small touchups during the season. This is also allows the skiiers to get tuned on different sets of skis with different sharpening and not loosing their habits on them.

[Gcarve]

Thanks nils! You answered a lot of questions that I have been pondering for a while about used boards, edge tuning, base grinding etc.

[jacopodotti]

Thank you for the sharp, clear and quick answers.

I've misunderstanded that EC make boards suffer in particular way.

[CarvingScooby]

Hi

I'll try to make it short!....

Gen2: 2005-2006: Made in Germany at Virus factory

Modification/ simplification of carbon ATC matrix, urethane embeded nose and tail protection.

Less scratchable topsheet ( grainy ICP)

Ride: smoother ride a bit more physical ( stiffer feel).. a bit less sharp precision/torsion control due to simplification of the ATC Matrix.

Gen3: 2007-2010: Made in Switzerland at Nidecker factory

Optimisation of carbon paterns. Rubber tail until 2010 ( now strong aluminium inserts on nose and tail).

Glossy topsheet. Thicker edges ( rental kind) for longer life.Introduction of new Swoard logos and topsheet graphics. Flatter camber.

Ride: added forgiveness and easyness.

Gen4: 2011-2012: Made in Switerland at Nidecker factory

Improved dampening, new topsheet

Ride: haven't got the time to ride mine yet!

Common to all generations: the 4000 electra Ptex base ( the best available since 2003), the pine wood laminated core with ash inserts( very strong and springy while light), the shape and few things that make the ride not so different for people with experience. Basically the latest generations are easier to ride while retaining the sharp precision and safe ride ( no lock in turns...)....Hope it helps, Nils

Nils, great information. Mercy beaucoup spending your time on the details.

More questions if I may:

- Do you know if the side cut and decamber on the nose are also change by the generation?

- I wonder if I sud go 168S or 175M? Reason:

Got the 2nd Gen (Germany) and in good condition. I felt the "stiffer" feel on the 168H and I'm 210-220lbs/95-100kg incld gears. I'm 6' MP27

According to SWOARD chart I hit the right board/stiffness but can't overcome that stiffness feeling, hard to bent that deck...

Also noticed on the web suggested to go soft if in the border line...:

A board with a softer flex is easier to ride and more comfortable, especially on hard or icy snow. If your ultimate goal is extremecarving do not hesitate to select the softest model: the board can bend better and grip nicely all along its edge thanks to the ATC Matrix. and I'm not in the boarder line.

I ride METAL board that made for 175lbs, love it and so far no bent board. I wonder if 168S will be too soft? Or is it better go longer deck but with 1 level down on the stiffness (175M)?

Is it by switching to softer flex is a good solution to ExC?

Looking forward for your SWOARD Gen 4 report.

Cheers

RT

[nils]

A few answers..

Sidecuts: very subtle changes were made to fine tune the behaviour of the shape to the generations / manufacturing..Not really noticeable.

Camber: each manufacturing has its limitations / habits....so camber was adapted each time. Gen1 have the biggest camber/spring feel compare to following gens. Nose scoop ( nose height) was very low compare to industry standards at the time ( 2002-2006) and has not been modified because it is what helps the board guide itself during the turn, even on rough terrains where it keeps tracking*( comparable to the nose of decambered nose scoops on lots of boards today ).

* I suggest you see the Opus 1 video: you see Patrice do a backside on a very bumpy slope and the nose doesn't loose it ( the slow motion also shows the advantage of a softer flex concept in this situation).

Board choice: Since the begining we had the idea to have a board size/flex match the rider's weight and size, not the opposite, nor having someone use a board too big / too stiff etc for his size and weight ( and feet length ).

The idea was to provide each rider a board with same riding characteristics, whatever his size. A small light woman on a 161XS is therorically having the same riding than the big dude on a 175XH, the only difference beeing the sidecut radius and stability that comes with longer edges.

Board choice when there is too much choice is always complicated: There is no rule of the right / perfect match if you are borderline. Its about what you want to ride, what versatility you are ready to loose or gain etc...

The advised ranges are targeted to provide the best compromise for the given rider. If you are out of the charts by much, you will loose versatility and the board will limit its capacity in EC, but also in other fields... this is why it is important to respect those. I am a believer in Versatility ( It is also the most difficult thing to shape/produce...performant versatility is)

The 168H is the right board for you, even a bit soft for your weight really.. ( really avoid the 168S unless you want to risk breaking it) the XH would be more adapted ( Patrice is 180-182cm / 82-84 kilos and rides the 168H..you are almost 20 kilos heavier and should ride a different flex for optimal riding). Riding the 168H means you will have good times on icy / hard snow ( edge chatter only if you miss the rotations, especially backsides). On softer slopes, it is advisable you do NOT full EC at power speeds: you are likely to risk burrying the nose and injure yourself ( break the board eventually)... as we say: adapt your riding to your level / gear / conditions.

Since you are 6' tall, you could also give the 175H a try..

Basically you will be riding a flex lower than what is perfect for you: it is not such a big problem if you remember the caution needed in softer packed snow. I have ridden the 175S ( my flex is the M) and loved it!

Hope this helps

N