Dampness vs. stability vs. flex vs. ....

[Peter Vu]

I cut/paste a short discussion from another thread here in case others can help me understand more on board and equipment design.

Basically I have questions on the meaning of “damp” or “stability”.

From my windsurfing background, I can (humbly) assert that a heavy epoxy board is “stable” and even “damp” in windy and heavy chops which is a comfy ride.

On the other hand, a full carbon super light board would be too “unstable” and too "lively" but an expert (not me) would love it.

Here are some random questions

- Is it possible to draw the same conclusions to carving boards?

- Since I am not an expert, is “lively” actually a bad thing in the carving world or is “damp” recommended?

- Is heavier equipment recommended for a light weight person to make the ride more “stable”?

- Due to my 130 lbs, am I equipment-weight sensitive?

- If the answer is “yes”, then should the board/bindings/boots manufacturers design lighter equipment to meet smaller rider needs? (This means better equipment for women to pick up this sport ). Michelle, what is the feedback you had from other female riders on equipment? Too stiff? Too heavy? improvement suggestions from female riders?

- Back to my windsurfing background....It took some 30 years for the industry to focus on lighter equipment for women and children. I would like to question whether the current equipment is properly designed for lighter riders. It's always possible to customize a board but how about bindings and boots?

Thanks beforehand for your replies

Pow

-pretty much, except that a snowboard's dampness is felt in its flex pattern, while a windsurf board basically has no flex pattern.

-it depends more on your taste in boards and your style of riding, id say its more personal preference than anything. a very active/aggressive rider wants a lively board to match, while a smooth graceful rider will want a calm, damp board.

-weight of the board almost never comes up as an important variable. dampness relies more on the materials used than the weight of the board.

-dont worry too much about the equipment's weight. instead, consern yourself with the flex pattern. you need a softer flexing board for your lighter weight.

-custom board makers will either have a softer model readily available for purchase, or will be able to soften the board upon request.

Pow, I agree that snowboards have flex while windsurf don't even though they have rocker that would simulate a flex especially during a turn.

D-Sub

- Is it possible to draw the same conclusions to carving boards?

I would say, just thinking about it logically, absolutely.

- Since I am not an expert, is “lively” actually a bad thing in the carving world or is “damp” recommended?

purely a "horses for courses" and personal preference thing

- Is heavier equipment recommended for a light weight person to make the ride more “stable”?

this one I dont know, but Id say that flex is more important than weight for stability

- Due to my 130 lbs, am I equipment-weight sensitive?

NO idea

just seems to me that a board that is a little heavier and absorbs/does not transmit vibration will have a more solid feeling ride, while a more "lively" board will punish error, not like variable terrain as much, but will give that "on the edge" thrill more readily when the correct input is given.

[lonerider]

Here are some random questions

- Since I am not an expert, is “lively” actually a bad thing in the carving world or is “damp” recommended?

- Is heavier equipment recommended for a light weight person to make the ride more “stable”?

- Due to my 130 lbs, am I equipment-weight sensitive?

- If the answer is “yes”, then should the board/bindings/boots manufacturers design lighter equipment to meet smaller rider needs? (This means better equipment for women to pick up this sport ). Michelle, what is the feedback you had from other female riders on equipment? Too stiff? Too heavy? improvement suggestions from female riders?

Overall I think I agree with Pow's assessment.

-pretty much, except that a snowboard's dampness is felt in its flex pattern, while a windsurf board basically has no flex pattern.

-it depends more on your taste in boards and your style of riding, id say its more personal preference than anything. a very active/aggressive rider wants a lively board to match, while a smooth graceful rider will want a calm, damp board.

-weight of the board almost never comes up as an important variable. dampness relies more on the materials used than the weight of the board.

-dont worry too much about the equipment's weight. instead, consern yourself with the flex pattern. you need a softer flexing board for your lighter weight.

-custom board makers will either have a softer model readily available for purchase, or will be able to soften the board upon request.pattern.

1. Lively vs Damp - obviously the extremes are bad, but the rest is really dependent on the rider - a heavier rider or someone with strong legs and good reflex that can absorb vibrations and chop might prefer a livelier board that might toss a lighter rider or someone without titanium springs for legs all over the place. The terrain that a person rides also makes a big difference - for instance some mountains have much firmer, smoother slopes due to limited snow fall or grooming - whereas other mountain have more varied terrain (not to mention with slopes a particular rider choses to ride on the mountain).

2. I agree with Pow - I prefer dampness to be due to construction - although often adding extra rubber in the edges for dampening can make the board heavier - the stability is not directly due to the board's increase weight.

3. Yes, lighter riders (most of the people in the BOL are a bigger than average it seems) are more sensitive to board weight and dampness, but it's not a huge issue in my opinion (I'm 142 lbs now, down from 152 lbs). It really comes down the preference more than body type.

4. Manufacturers already do make adjustments - Donek, Coiler, Prior - all have softer boards for lighter riders. For bindings - there already exist bindings that work well for lighter riders as well. TD2 with the extra-cushy E-rings should be fine for most people (again in my opinion). Obviously for smaller riders (women under 120 lbs) there always could be room for improvement - but I don't think it's the equipment that holding them back.

Again - all my opinions - plus I'm a little loopy after being trapped in the mountains due to 6 feet of snow falling in Tahoe over the weekend and getting out after an extra day of effort.

[kjl]

I cut/paste a short discussion from another thread here in case others can help me understand more on board and equipment design.

Basically I have questions on the meaning of “damp” or “stability”.

Here are some random questions

Peter! When do we get to ride together again? I haven't seen you in.. what, 3 years?

To your random questions I give you random responses :D :

I would say "damp" probably is "better" if all you care about is how well the edge stays in in chattery ice, but I'd take "lively" over "damp" because I don't want to be riding chattery ice anyways, and I like using the rebounding energy to shove me into the next turn, or to help me get airborne, etc.

As a light rider myself (I'm a little heavier than you now, Peter - maybe 145; getting fat!) I have always liked heavier boards to help cut through the crud and provide just a little more inertia for myself. But equipment weight is pretty low on priority list.

Equipment-weight sensitive... sort of. As a shorter guy like me you naturally probably want to put your feet closer together (I ride with a 16.5" width while most guys are at least at 19" and most are up around 21"). The narrower stance width means you are standing closer to the center of the board, which gives you better mechanical advantage to bend the board. I tried a 19" stance width and immediately lacked the weight to keep the waist of my board (172 Speedster RS) contacting the snow on a hard carve.

I believe bindings are aimed at being as stiff as possible so there's no reason to have weight-specific bindings, and as for boots, with the BTS it seems like you have enough variation in flexes (the yellow spring is plenty flexy enough even for a light guy like myself).

[trikerdad]

I like a lively board, like a Donek or a Madd, in hero conditions where you can get some pop between turns and off rollers, and a damper board like a Tinkler or Coiler in the chop and crud. The damper boards seem to work well in all conditions whereas the livelier ones can be a lot of work in other than ideal conditions.

Edit: I have to add that I haven't ridden one of the Prior WCR Metals that, from what I've heard, may be the best of both.